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  1. #221
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    Anyone who perceives Carmen as just another romantic routine is either blind or has the most f***ed up love life imaginable.

  2. #222
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    Re: Showcasing the Yankee Polka...

    Yes and no. Last year's pattern dance was rhumba, and I don't remember anyone debating who best captured the rhumba feeling, just the overall "Latin vibe." The only couple who put a great emphasis on rhumba was R&T, and they generally got reamed for it being too boring. When Denkova & Staviyski did the baroque OD and had a slow start, everyone was all "it's illegal, it's a minuet and not a waltz, it's beautiful but it's not within the grand ball theme." And in the end they won their first world medal and it is remembered as a classic. If V&M were getting the scores, then everyone would be saying that the modern dance vibe of their program is so brilliant and they managed to make polka work in a way that isn't expected. So I think these concerns are overstated.

    However, it was dumb of them to go on the record saying they hate polka and crammed in the least possible amount of it they could. I personally loved those comments because of the refreshing honesty, but it's not good strategy. It's like when Plushy admitted prior to Vancouver that he didn't have many transitions. Why give the judges the reason to mark you down? These comments always come back to bite you in the ass, and I think D&W's interviews about how they hate ballet will do just the same eventually.

    Re: Artistic integrity vs winning

    Ideally, they'll just tweak one or two things in Carmen in a way that doesn't effect the dance, all the while continuing to work on polishing each step, and will be able to win Worlds with this program.

    However, if it came down to making big changes in order to win, then as much as it sucks, I would rather see them do it and win. They are athletes first. They are here to take titles, not to be martyrs for art. I appreciate their concern about their legacy, but remember, many felt that A&P's best performance of Libertas came at Lalique, and the version from SLC was watered down. It has not diminished their legacy in any way, IMO. We'll always have the videos from their Grand Prix outings of Carmen, and we'll always know what it meant in their career.

    If FDs are no longer the vehicles for artistic growth, then let them go back to doing Umbrellas of Cherbourg type FDs, just as D&W are still doing Phantom type FDs, and they can use their exhibitions to show off their dance skills. I always wished V&M would push it more in exhibitions anyway. They tend to skate to a lot of ballads, why not do something really out of the box? Their Beethoven violin concerto is my absolute favorite, but I think they only performed it like once. K&P and T&D both did their most avant garde stuff as pros, so I hope V&M explore that.

  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainbowkisses View Post
    idk about you guys but i like to think v/m's carmen is literature on ice considering its like a deconstruction of bizet's opera (and the novella it was inspired by)
    because they deconstructed it it's more like a focus on how abusive carmen and don jose's relationship is (this why i get so pissed of when people call carmen just another romantic routine)
    don jose really just wants to control carmen's sexuality
    he wants to subjugate her
    and the reason why their relationship is abusive is because they have these huge ideals about the place of women and men in a relationship
    carmen wants to be free, don jose just wants her for himself
    and because it's deconstructed you can compare it to other works of victorian literature in which the characters relationship with other characters are quite similar
    for example, it really reminded me of Lulie and Campbell's relationship in D'arcy's The Pleasure Pilgrim and Monica and Edward Widdowson in Gissing's The Odd Women. it also kind reminds me Ellen Olenska and Newland Archer's relationship in The Age of Innocence and i guess why they are all similar is because the characters occupy the same binary oppositions and like v/m are protraying the oppositions carmen and don jose occupy and placing them in a hierarchy (in which carmen wins) or something. idek my knowledge of derrida's deconstructionism is rusty but i like to think he would approve of their dance. I feel like its so easy to apply derrida's deconstruction theory to their dance and it kinda helps me understand his theory more (thanks tessa and scott! )
    if my memory of deconstructionism/post-structualism wasnt so rusty i would be able to analyze their dance using derrida's theory

    eta:

    her facial expression was triumphant you just couldnt see it because the coverage at GPF sucked so much (but you can see it here in the slomo replay :http://youtu.be/NTIYowCzhVA?t=6m26s)

    i love the elaboration, but are the judges and general audience smart enough to know that? they just see all sexuality and applaud/approve/reward the upfront speed and drama, but they cant get it into their heads that the carmen FD is more layered and nuanced. v/m's FD is too cerebral/intellectual (how's that for something that's sexual?) for the general public consumption.

  4. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by IoanaC View Post

    For those of you who can watch CBC - I'd be curious to know what the post-competition reactions were over there.
    To be honest they didn't say a whole lot that I remember. Tracy said it was a great podium adn mentioned that Sccott said they'd have to go home and see where they lost points. She said they lost points on the last lift and the spin and that it's just fractions and Kurt said something like nothing against the judges but sometime when it's this close they look for you to give them a reason to 'pull the trigger' or 'pull out the gun' something like that. Nothing very insightful.

  5. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proustable View Post
    Anyone who perceives Carmen as just another romantic routine is either blind or has the most f***ed up love life imaginable.
    or they just don't like V/M so they make s*#t up.

  6. #226

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    If FDs are no longer the vehicles for artistic growth, then let them go back to doing Umbrellas of Cherbourg type FDs, just as D&W are still doing Phantom type FDs, and they can use their exhibitions to show off their dance skills. I always wished V&M would push it more in exhibitions anyway. They tend to skate to a lot of ballads, why not do something really out of the box? Their Beethoven violin concerto is my absolute favorite, but I think they only performed it like once. K&P and T&D both did their most avant garde stuff as pros, so I hope V&M explore that.
    Except the pro-circuit is very far from what it was in the 90s and I doubt it will get any better. There's no incentive for the skaters to push the limits, to show originality. That's why I'm so happy for Carmen and I'm sure they won't disappoint us next year either. It's their last chance at something memorable.

    You made me revisit A&P's Lalique video which I hadn't seen in years! I had even forgotten the ending was different. You're right, the Olympics version was watered down a lot, but for me personally watching the SLC dance event in the middle of the night in my college dorm will always be a great memory! I was a big A&P fan and still am.

    Sequins, thank you for the comments!

  7. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by zilam98 View Post
    i love the elaboration, but are the judges and general audience smart enough to know that? they just see all sexuality and applaud/approve/reward the upfront speed and drama, but they cant get it into their heads that the carmen FD is more layered and nuanced. v/m's FD is too cerebral/intellectual (how's that for something that's sexual?) for the general public consumption.
    yeah i had someone tell me that v/m's carmen is the most misogynistic carmen and that its too sexual but like its their interpretation that is misogynistic and they're the ones being anti-sex etc. as they are only viewing it at surface level
    really tho if people find v/m too vulgar and obscene perhaps they should'nt be watching ice dancing and perhaps they should be watching baby einstein instead

  8. #228
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    Yeah, I wish there were a serious pro circuit again. I'm sure they could do something more esoteric on SOI if they wanted.

    I love A&P's Olympic performance also, it's a great memory for me as well.

  9. #229
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    I have all the faith in the world that Tessa and Scott will pull it off at 4CC and Worlds. I was feeling really down after yesterday but you all have made me feel much better! Even if people don't believe that V/M are better ice dancers than D/W, I'd like to make the assertion that V/M have the best fans (YES! I said it and I will most likely take abuse for it)

    Onward and upwards indeed, my friends

  10. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainbowkisses View Post
    yeah i had someone tell me that v/m's carmen is the most misogynistic carmen and that its too sexual but like its their interpretation that is misogynistic and they're the ones being anti-sex etc. as they are only viewing it at surface level
    really tho if people find v/m too vulgar and obscene perhaps they should'nt be watching ice dancing and perhaps they should be watching baby einstein instead
    yup, some quarters are saying that they can't show v/m's fd to their kids, that it's too pg13 or something. they and their kids can certainly watch baby einstein. with the hope that their brains evolve enough to understand more intellectual subjects. otherwise, they can just watch barney too. hehehe

  11. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by zilam98 View Post
    yup, some quarters are saying that they can't show v/m's fd to their kids, that it's too pg13 or something. they and their kids can certainly watch baby einstein. with the hope that their brains evolve enough to understand more intellectual subjects. otherwise, they can just watch barney too. hehehe
    I guess they can't show their kids pairs skating either when a good chunk of time, the guys are holding up the girls by the butt/thigh. HOW SCANDALOUS!

    BTW, I love this quote from Marina from the Dimanno article:

    “It’s not too risky, no way. They’re Olympic champions. If you want to be Olympic champion, you have to bring newness to the sport.’’

    Well said, Marina. I don't want to be snarky and call out other teams but you guys are smart enough to read between the lines

  12. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by zilam98 View Post
    yup, some quarters are saying that they can't show v/m's fd to their kids, that it's too pg13 or something. they and their kids can certainly watch baby einstein. with the hope that their brains evolve enough to understand more intellectual subjects. otherwise, they can just watch barney too. hehehe
    OMG are you serious? That is absolute ridiculous, nonsense. I guess these people never watched skating back in the 80's, 90's, the costuming alone would've sent them into a frenzy. I remember going to SC in 96 and Marina Anissina's OD costume caused everyone to have a good chuckle but I didn't see anyone running for the exit with blindfolded children. People need to grow up and get a life. 'Protecting' your kids from V/M 'Carmen' should be the least of a parents worries. Sorry but I can't believe the stupidity of this. Why don't they say 'I don't like V/M' cause that's about what it boils down to.

    Oh and you're very welcome IoanaC!

  13. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by sequins View Post
    OMG are you serious? That is absolute ridiculous, nonsense. I guess these people never watched skating back in the 80's, 90's, the costuming alone would've sent them into a frenzy. I remember going to SC in 96 and Marina Anissina's OD costume caused everyone to have a good chuckle but I didn't see anyone running for the exit with blindfolded children. People need to grow up and get a life. 'Protecting' your kids from V/M 'Carmen' should be the least of a parents worries. Sorry but I can't believe the stupidity of this. Why don't they say 'I don't like V/M' cause that's about what it boils down to.

    Oh and you're very welcome IoanaC!
    yep im dead serious. someone actually posted that, that carmen is not appropriate for kids under 13 hehehe

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    Hi, guys. I'd just like to get it out here. I just finished watching their gala at Sochi, and it really felt like they were healing each other's disappointment and sorrow skating to Hallelujah. I truly believe that the best is yet to come for them, and that they will grow on this letdown and only get better.

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    Tessa with Vasilisa Davankova (Jr. pairs) at the banquet, I presume.

    http://instagram.com/p/TBm1d3jOEY/

    I don't know if google translate got it right, but the twitter message seems to be "Oh baby, it's so cool!"
    Last edited by IoanaC; 12-09-2012 at 09:41 PM.

  16. #236

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    Quote Originally Posted by IoanaC View Post
    Tessa with Vasilisa Davankova (Jr. pairs) at the banquet, I presume.

    http://instagram.com/p/TBm1d3jOEY/

    I don't know if google translate got it right, but the twitter message seems to be "Oh baby, it's so cool!"
    Um Tessa's dress is wow! Where did you find this pic, tumblr? Are there others?

    I've been told some people out there say Tessa is fat! I want to cuss all of them out right now...to their face.
    Last edited by Shayii; 12-09-2012 at 10:07 PM.

  17. #237
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    Hello all,

    I do not post here much, but just wanted to give my two cents about this weekend...

    I too was very dissapponted, but as elle123 said, I have no doubt that they will pull off wins at Four Continents and Worlds...those comments by Marina saying to "wait and see at the next competition" are interesting as well. It is frustrating though that they don't get rewarded for what they do, when Meryl and Charlie seem to speed around the ice each year doing recycled elements to sweeping music...(same old, same old). Also very frustrating that they get higher marks than them in choreography, etc. However, I am trying to remain positive!! I just cannot imagine them not winning in London

    My friend's mother works at Parliament Hill, and got me a personalized autograph from them that she surprised me with last night, I'm so excited, just thought I'd share

    I too am concerned with the kick move... I thought it looked better here as well like some posters said, but it still seems a little off. I think though, that it's look of imperfection adds to the notion of the struggle in their relationship. Not sure if they'll change it or not or if they even should. As for the final choreographic lift... I LOVE it and thing it works perfectly with the end of the program...however if it's losing them points, then maybe they should change it.

    I loved listening to Kurt and Tracey's comments...it's obvious who Kurt's favorites are but they still manage to stay objective

    Also, thanks rainbowkisses for the slow motion video of Tessa's expression...wow, just wow.

    I love reading all of your posts guys, and it's great having a place to come to like this to see what all the other V/M fans are saying, and all of the analysis is great too.

  18. #238

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shayii View Post
    Um Tessa's dress is wow! Where did you find this pic, tumblr? Are there others?
    I have no idea, I found it by chance while I was searching for information about some junior skaters.

    Nice to meet you, Ceg15!

  19. #239
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    P.S. Has anyone found a video up of their gala performance today yet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shayii View Post
    I've been told some people out there say Tessa is fat! I want to cuss all of them out right now...to their face.
    This is something I've been noticing for the past few weeks and didn't want to react, but it's becoming a sort of invasion of craziness. I don't know if it's because things get more tense between the fans of the two teams, as we're approching the Oly season... I like reading Golden Skate, even if I don't post there, but every ice dance thread, and especially the GPF one, is full of cheap shots to Tessa and Scott. Tessa "doesn't have a slight frame" as the other dancers, their lifts look laboured, poor Scott is a martyr and she will end up breaking his neck. So I've decided to avoid GS for a while, although there are a few posters there whose opinions I enjoy reading.
    I know we can also be nasty when we criticize their skating, but no one here has ever delivered personal insults to Meryl or Charlie, as far as I remember.
    And youtube commentaries aren't any better. I'm wondering what's gotten into people... This is a time when I really hope Tessa and Scott stay away from the wonderful world of the internet.

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