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  1. #201

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    http://tvonsite.org/index.php?kanal=sport2

    Link to the live gala, if anyone wants to watch. Finally, the stands are somewhat fuller. For the medal ceremonies the arena was practically empty, I don't understand why the Russians don't hold them right after each event. The same thing happened at CoR. It must be disappointing for the skaters to have no one cheering for them.

    ETA: Hallelujah was beautiful, but too short. The replays at the end were so lovely, I hope the video comes up on youtube. I missed the Carmen encore...
    Last edited by IoanaC; 12-09-2012 at 01:41 PM.

  2. #202

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    FD from British Eurosport, with comments by Chris Howarth.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTIYo...Cse1Gg&index=1

    Interesting that Nicky Slater, who commented their previous GPs, notices Tessa first and foremost, and Chris Howarth seems to prefer Scott.

  3. #203

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    duplicate

  4. #204
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    Virtue & Moir # 23 - Dance Me To The End Of Love

    Quote Originally Posted by Shayii View Post
    ...I didn't understand what she meant about switching programs or what not...
    I interpreted that quote to mean swapping programs between teams. eg. next year have D/W skate Carmen and V/M skate Notre Dame. However she admits it would be a bad idea since the programs are customized for each team.

  5. #205
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    It's always nice to see this from the perspective of a commentator watching it for the first time. Howarth and Slater both agree that this is one of the best Carmens they have ever seen. I liked that Howarth spoke of the rough patches, but stressed that this program has more room to grow, which is what we (and Tessa, too) have been saying for a while.

    There is a rawness, even a roughness in some parts of this program that you cannot smoothen out. What you can, and definitely should, smoothen out is the step sequences, especially the circular one. But you cannot do the same with the modern dance steps after that sequence, they are supposed to look aggressive, antagonistic even. Sigh. This program is genius. I'm sorry, but every time I see it from someone else's perspective like I just did, I am mesmerized by it as if I were watching it for the first time. Everyone has praised it. Every. Single. Commentator. Has praised this program highly: Russians, Italians, British, Canadians, Spaniards, so it's not just us. Everyone sees the potential this program has. The question is: will it live up to it? I mean, to its full potential? They have always managed to produce epic performances, so history tells us that yes, it should.

  6. #206

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    Quote Originally Posted by Golightly View Post
    Everyone sees the potential this program has. The question is: will it live up to it? I mean, to its full potential? They have always managed to produce epic performances, so history tells us that yes, it should.
    To some extent, it's the same challenge they faced in the Olympic season with Farrucas. It was really rough at TEB and Skate Canada, and even at the GPF. Then, by Canadians, they had made huge improvements, and we all know how great it looked in Vancouver and Torino. I believe this is how Carmen will evolve as well.

    What bothers me, though, is the judges' tendency to lump together all PCS criteria, no difference whatsoever between them. Okay, let's say Carmen is still rough around the edges. But Tessa and Scott should have outscored D/W in choreography and interpretation, at the very least. The fact that an original program, so different from the rest of the field, doesn't get credit for that is extremely frustrating.

    For those of you who can watch CBC - I'd be curious to know what the post-competition reactions were over there.

    ETA: Oh brother, I can't believe CBC has geoblocked even Kurt Browning & PJ Kwong's podcast. Geez... I was really looking forward to it.
    Last edited by IoanaC; 12-09-2012 at 04:35 PM.

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by IoanaC View Post
    To some extent, it's the same challenge they faced in the Olympic season with Farrucas. It was really rough at TEB and Skate Canada, and even at the GPF. Then, by Canadians, they had made huge improvements, and we all know how great it looked in Vancouver and Torino. I believe this is how Carmen will evolve as well.
    This is what comes to my mind too. I saw it live at Worlds in Torino that year, and it was the single most electrifying skating performance I have ever seen. Out of this world. (Honestly, Mahler was a massive anti climax after the OD...) That's of course what we all hope for Carmen, and I am heartened that Chris Howarth doesn't just think they can get there, he assumes that they will.

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bue View Post
    This is what comes to my mind too. I saw it live at Worlds in Torino that year, and it was the single most electrifying skating performance I have ever seen. Out of this world. (Honestly, Mahler was a massive anti climax after the OD...) That's of course what we all hope for Carmen, and I am heartened that Chris Howarth doesn't just think they can get there, he assumes that they will.
    As V/M fans, perhaps we should have more faith that this program will reach it's full potential.

    Looking at the Br ESP version, I noticed this time that the kick move has much better flow than at SC and COR, and the beauty of Scott's position during and then immediately after Tessa comes down is quite extraordinary. The slo-mo replay demonstrates this even better. I know that there are a lot of fans here who want this kick out, but who knows, if they keep improving this move, it could be amazing by Worlds.

    Did anyone notice the stutter in the music towards the end of their straight-line SS? It was bothersome to me.

  9. #209

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    Quote Originally Posted by IoanaC View Post
    For those of you who can watch CBC - I'd be curious to know what the post-competition reactions were over there.

    ETA: Oh brother, I can't believe CBC has geoblocked even Kurt Browning & PJ Kwong's podcast. Geez... I was really looking forward to it.
    I was annoyed to, but I found out you can download the podcast in iTunes. Just search for cbcskate.

  10. #210

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    Quote Originally Posted by zebobes View Post
    I was annoyed to, but I found out you can download the podcast in iTunes. Just search for cbcskate.
    Many thanks!

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by zebobes View Post
    I was annoyed to, but I found out you can download the podcast in iTunes. Just search for cbcskate.
    Thank you. Is the podcast out already?

    Re: the kick. It was perfect here, look how she finds her leverage with her other boot with a pretty extension and the matching lines of their legs, the pose at the end is very pretty too. I've been a fan of that movement from the start and I hope it stays, but I understand if they decide to remove it.

    Isn't it awesome that we can sit and talk about each little movement? Deconstruct the whole dance and just talk about it? There's so much to see and to praise.

  12. #212

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    Yes, the podcast is out. I was a little confused at first, because it's marked in iTunes as "Grand Prix of Russia". Then I looked at the date and figured it out.

    Speaking of "deconstructing", the camerawork makes it difficult to see the details of the new diagonal step seq, but after rewatching it I think it's just as difficult as the original one - even if a little less spectacular. The middle portion, where they switch from a side by side position to dance hold and back is quite challenging and they'll need to polish that.

  13. #213
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    I was going to say that too. It still looks quite different and demanding. That's the step sequence they need to nail because it leads to the most spectacular section of the program. You can feel the tension building and building and hey, it's only fitting considering the theme of the program.

    Anyone knows who made the music cuts? I don't think we have mentioned it, but they did a very, very good job in selecting the perfect cuts. And then the choreographers did an even greater job at making the music part of the program. Let me explain, music is of course always a part of programs, but here it's another character. They are not only skating together, but they are interacting with the music: the twizzles, his kick, then hers, the first lift. These are movements that elevate the accents in the music, it's not just them timing their movements to the music, it's them elevating the beats and pauses.

  14. #214

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    I think the kick was just as awkward here as it's been in previous outings (except SC obviously). The only time it has looked good to me was in one of the earliest practice videos we saw, it might have been the CTV one.

    I can't believe we wouldn't see them compete again until next year. I'm nervous cuz I hope they don't make changes that will water down the artistic qualities of Carmen just for the sake of gaining more points.

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golightly View Post
    I was going to say that too. It still looks quite different and demanding. That's the step sequence they need to nail because it leads to the most spectacular section of the program. You can feel the tension building and building and hey, it's only fitting considering the theme of the program.

    Anyone knows who made the music cuts? I don't think we have mentioned it, but they did a very, very good job in selecting the perfect cuts. And then the choreographers did an even greater job at making the music part of the program. Let me explain, music is of course always a part of programs, but here it's another character. They are not only skating together, but they are interacting with the music: the twizzles, his kick, then hers, the first lift. These are movements that elevate the accents in the music, it's not just them timing their movements to the music, it's them elevating the beats and pauses.
    and those are what the judges are missing on.

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvi5 View Post
    I interpreted that quote to mean swapping programs between teams. eg. next year have D/W skate Carmen and V/M skate Notre Dame. However she admits it would be a bad idea since the programs are customized for each team.
    lmao exactly! m/c cant NEVER execute carmen like v/m however considering how basic ND is v/m could execute that better considering how versatile they are

    eta: heck im even sure P/B can make ND more interesting
    Last edited by rainbowkisses; 12-09-2012 at 06:59 PM.

  17. #217

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    Quote Originally Posted by Golightly View Post
    Anyone knows who made the music cuts? I don't think we have mentioned it, but they did a very, very good job in selecting the perfect cuts. And then the choreographers did an even greater job at making the music part of the program. Let me explain, music is of course always a part of programs, but here it's another character. They are not only skating together, but they are interacting with the music: the twizzles, his kick, then hers, the first lift. These are movements that elevate the accents in the music, it's not just them timing their movements to the music, it's them elevating the beats and pauses.
    That's one of the reasons it's such a great program. Tessa mentioned last year that they had a hard time selecting the pieces from Funny Face, because they liked so many of them. My guess is they choose the music themselves, together with Marina. Jennifer Swan may have contributed as well, after they decided to change the choreography. What I really love is that they've picked "La fleur que tu m'avais jetée" for the lyrical part, which I don't remember having been used in the previous famous Carmen programs and it's perfect for the mood they set in that portion of the program.

    In the podcast, Kurt mentions the last lift and the fact that they had some trouble with it and it cost them in the score. He also says they should maybe put a few cross-overs between that lift and the previous one - but that's not possible without completely modifying the choreography, which I don't think they will.

  18. #218
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    Five things I loved about V/M at the GPF and Five Things I want them to improve on

    1. LOVED the cleanliness of the polka. Beautifully skated.

    2. LOVED the time they took to set a mood throughout the SD - even if it wasn't SD appropriate.

    3. The combination lift in Carmen is exquisitely timed.

    4. The transitions/linking movement throughout are insanely awesome. The madness leap/lift!!!!

    5. The rotational lift. The insane entry (seriously guys - a fricking twisting assisted backflip?), the two positions and switch. This lift is remarkable. The timing needs to be spot on or it fails. The passion needs to be extreme or it doesn't hit hard enough. Extreme passion cannot be too wild because being too wild means the lift becomes too scary to watch. There's a reason the commentators are gasping.

    ----

    1. This dance could've been hotter.

    2. Tessa's final expression was more forlorn than triumphant. She needs to be triumphant at the end. It's an empty triumph, but that final gesture needs to feel like a violent decapitation.

    3. The choreolift. I love the lift. I think they can make it clean (maybe shorten the time between the second step sequence and the f. If so, it will be spectacular.

    4. The footwork and transitions need to be smoother.

    5. The spin. Needs to be faster.

  19. #219
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    idk about you guys but i like to think v/m's carmen is literature on ice considering its like a deconstruction of bizet's opera (and the novella it was inspired by)
    because they deconstructed it it's more like a focus on how abusive carmen and don jose's relationship is (this why i get so pissed of when people call carmen just another romantic routine)
    don jose really just wants to control carmen's sexuality
    he wants to subjugate her
    and the reason why their relationship is abusive is because they have these huge ideals about the place of women and men in a relationship
    carmen wants to be free, don jose just wants her for himself
    and because it's deconstructed you can compare it to other works of victorian literature in which the characters relationship with other characters are quite similar
    for example, it really reminded me of Lulie and Campbell's relationship in D'arcy's The Pleasure Pilgrim and Monica and Edward Widdowson in Gissing's The Odd Women. it also kind reminds me Ellen Olenska and Newland Archer's relationship in The Age of Innocence and i guess why they are all similar is because the characters occupy the same binary oppositions and like v/m are protraying the oppositions carmen and don jose occupy and placing them in a hierarchy (in which carmen wins) or something. idek my knowledge of derrida's deconstructionism is rusty but i like to think he would approve of their dance. I feel like its so easy to apply derrida's deconstruction theory to their dance and it kinda helps me understand his theory more (thanks tessa and scott! )
    if my memory of deconstructionism/post-structualism wasnt so rusty i would be able to analyze their dance using derrida's theory

    eta:
    Quote Originally Posted by Proustable View Post
    Five things I loved about V/M at the GPF and Five Things I want them to improve on

    1. LOVED the cleanliness of the polka. Beautifully skated.

    2. LOVED the time they took to set a mood throughout the SD - even if it wasn't SD appropriate.

    3. The combination lift in Carmen is exquisitely timed.

    4. The transitions/linking movement throughout are insanely awesome. The madness leap/lift!!!!

    5. The rotational lift. The insane entry (seriously guys - a fricking twisting assisted backflip?), the two positions and switch. This lift is remarkable. The timing needs to be spot on or it fails. The passion needs to be extreme or it doesn't hit hard enough. Extreme passion cannot be too wild because being too wild means the lift becomes too scary to watch. There's a reason the commentators are gasping.

    ----

    1. This dance could've been hotter.

    2. Tessa's final expression was more forlorn than triumphant. She needs to be triumphant at the end. It's an empty triumph, but that final gesture needs to feel like a violent decapitation.

    3. The choreolift. I love the lift. I think they can make it clean (maybe shorten the time between the second step sequence and the f. If so, it will be spectacular.

    4. The footwork and transitions need to be smoother.

    5. The spin. Needs to be faster.
    her facial expression was triumphant you just couldnt see it because the coverage at GPF sucked so much (but you can see it here in the slomo replay :http://youtu.be/NTIYowCzhVA?t=6m26s)
    Last edited by rainbowkisses; 12-09-2012 at 07:45 PM.

  20. #220

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    Very good comments, Proustable, as always. I agree with everything you said, except I have my doubts about the spin. It's gorgeous, with interesting positions and the exit is one of my favourite moments in the program (I so love their expressions). But I don't know if they can make it faster, especially the first position. If they manage to make it a bit more tight and centered than yesterday, it should look good (although it already looked improved).

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