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  1. #61
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    I don't suppose there are any youtube videos of v/m's fd yet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post
    I don't suppose there are any youtube videos of yet?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYQeJ...KVMffQ&index=7

  3. #63
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    Big improvement. What is it with the Russians showing it from above grrrr? I think they have to tweak that ending and I agree with whoever mentioned the leg kicking part .. can hardly wait until Canadians now. I'll be at worlds too so I'm really excited about that

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golightly View Post
    I hated to see the diagonal step sequence watered down, that got them a level 3 and still low GOE. They are compromising already and I admit that I don't like it. I understand your concern with the choreo lift, but they HAVE performed it well in practice and that's not where they are losing most of their points. It's baffling really. The twizzles, for example, those are amazing. Why isn't the rotational lift getting higher GOE? So, yeah, the judges do not like as much as we do. By the way, how amazing was that Russian audience? Truly great how they reacted after each element, especially the twizzles and the lifts. Another thing, (sorry for my very scattered thoughts) that kick Tessa does was well performed today, I think someone asked. It was clean and precise. I like it. I wish they didn't made any more changes, I wish they got some of those steps back, but like you guys said: this is a sport and well, champions adjust. I just want them to skate this program to their its full potential, win or lose, I think that's all I care about: that this program is remembered as one of the best ever.

    As for politics being involved, I am not too sure? Last year was the same, if not worse. A question, though, to those of you who are more familiar with the new system (V-M are the only team I followed after COP), do judges in the Grand Prix series get to judge 4CC and Worlds? Do they need extra qualifications?
    It's not so much my concern as it is my pointing out the obvious. V&M and D&W have the same base value, the difference is in the GOE awarded and 67% of that difference is down to the choreographic lift. There is a 0.86 difference between their TES scores, 0.58 of that amount is down to the choreographic lift. Even judges who showered V&M with 2s and 3s in GOE for all their other elements gave 1, 0, -1 for that lift. They don't like it and I think it's because it doesn't move well or at least that is the appearance after the really dynamic lift that precedes it so it kind of ends on a whimper. I don't think it's selling out or losing your artistic integrity to realize that your vision might need to be adjusted. Sometimes you buy a beautiful piece of furniture knowing exactly where you are going to place it but when you bring it home you are disappointed to see it blocks the light. So you are disappointed but you really love the piece itself so you move it and discover it's not quite what you imagined but you still love it and it brings you great joy. Just move that lift and let the light of the program shine through to the end.

    Btw..I´m deliberately ignoring the PCS and will wait to see what that is like later in the season before freaking out.

  5. #65
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    T/S's FD

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYQeJ8frvv4

    Now that I've seen it, I actually like the new circular step sequence. However, I prefer the old straight line step sequence (so unfortunate that COP is flawed in the way it assigns levels since I think the original straight line step sequence is more difficult).

    And I agree with others, that choreo lift is too difficult to get good GOEs on and they should revisit that.
    Last edited by ddtpdx; 12-08-2012 at 04:40 PM.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post
    Big improvement. What is it with the Russians showing it from above grrrr? I think they have to tweak that ending and I agree with whoever mentioned the leg kicking part .. can hardly wait until Canadians now. I'll be at worlds too so I'm really excited about that
    This is why I'm not panicking so much at this stage of the season. Every time they take it out there it's smoother and gets more and more beautiful to watch. I miss Tessa doing her mad twizzle in the middle of their diagonal but I do like the ending of it.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lissa View Post
    No bascially what I am saying is there is NO way that program by D&W is better than Carmen. End of story, Carmen is so far ahead of that ND program it's laughable but they continue to get WAY over scored for some mysterious reason, I think it's time V&M & their team checked to see what is going on cause I have a feeling the American Skating Federation is making a huge push for F&W this season, something fishy is going on....I have watched skating long enough to see this...
    Quote Originally Posted by aka_gerbil View Post
    I just saw the scores.

    I know it's not a popular opinion by a long shot, but I have to say I'm with you Lissa when it comes to what you're thinking on this. I've watched this sport a long time as well and have the same feelings on the scoring right now. I think what we're seeing is all political, decided long ago, and has little to nothing to do with the actual skating.
    Well, I'll be unpopular along with the two of you and take my lumps along with it.

    I'm sorry, even with the lift that should probably be changed I thought even with all the tweaks that are done each year to the marking system the basics remain. CoP is a marking system in which each team starts with a base score but can rack up points by doing other things correctly. Each segment provides that opportunity. Even if the judges are having issues with the lift and the execution of it, V&M are doing so many other things at such a high standard that continously having D&W outpoint them (higher choreography scores, really?) it's ridiculous. Especially this season.

    It's true that V&M build as the season progresses but what they skated this weekend was more than enough to give them a victory at least in the FD.

    Even many big names and icons in the icedance world have commented on V&M's programs (Carmen in particular) and how their skating is the best in the field. It's not just us whiny V&M. fans. I mean not even coming closer in the FD?

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lissa View Post
    No bascially what I am saying is there is NO way that program by D&W is better than Carmen. End of story, Carmen is so far ahead of that ND program it's laughable but they continue to get WAY over scored for some mysterious reason, I think it's time V&M & their team checked to see what is going on cause I have a feeling the American Skating Federation is making a huge push for F&W this season, something fishy is going on....I have watched skating long enough to see this...
    I say this gently because I understand that you prefer Carmen over Notre Dame, but I have to roll my eyes at this and as I see this, this almost an insult to D/W's integrity. What you are saying is that V/M should automatically win because they have a better program without actually taking into account the actual skating? Truth this, D&W's skated the heck out of that program, especially Charlie. You're also insinuating Tessa and Scott SHOULD benefit from decisions prior to any teams have skated

    Also, are you really saying that D&W win because the US Figure Skating is politicking? Like the USFS really has the money to do that....

  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by skatingfan12 View Post
    Also, are you really saying that D&W win because the US Figure Skating is politicking? Like the USFS really has the money to do that....
    Allow me to back at you. Everybody is politicking. The US fed is certainly no exception.

    And yes, we DO take into account the actual skating when we say that Carmen should win.

  10. #70
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    It's a piss off that Davis and White won today. Especially with program components. If it doesn't change by 4cc I'll explode.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macassar88 View Post
    It's a piss off that Davis and White won today. Especially with program components. If it doesn't change by 4cc I'll explode.
    I wanted to postiive rep you for this, but I can't right now. I completely agree with you.

    Quote Originally Posted by IoanaC View Post
    Allow me to back at you. Everybody is politicking. The US fed is certainly no exception.

    And yes, we DO take into account the actual skating when we say that Carmen should win.
    Abso-freaking-lutely. All feds politik and the USFS is no exception. And, yes, we also take into account the actual skating when we say Carmen should win.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by IoanaC View Post
    Allow me to back at you. Everybody is politicking. The US fed is certainly no exception.

    And yes, we DO take into account the actual skating when we say that Carmen should win.
    I agree that everybody is politicking.
    My concern is with the COP and the judge's interpretation of COP.
    The easiest one to tackle is the choreo. In my mind, the choreo mark should be independent of performance. In essence, the choreo mark should have already been assigned even before the skaters skate (and we know the judges already know the choreo for all the top teams). However, it seems to me the choreo mark always correlates with performance to some extent. Unless the judges are saying that T/S's choreo is not as interesting, complex, or novel as M/C's. To that, I have no words.

  13. #73

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    I posted this elsewhere but it's depressing (and scandalous) that Virtue and Moir lost PCS to that hideous program of Davis and White's.

    I don't know what to think about this season. I don't know if the marking of Davis and White is to make up for last season's worlds results (where a lot of people thought Davis and White should have won with DF), is it because the judges are planning on giving Virtue and Moir the world title so they are throwing D/W the "GPF bone" (like last season), or are they setting D/W up to win worlds (remember no Canadian judge on the panel in London) and so giving them these kind of marks and point difference over Virtue and Moir means it won't be a surprise or scandal if V/M lose to D/W by the time Worlds in V/Ms hometown rolls around.

    What I'd like to know is what Marina Z is doing and saying behind the scenes.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafter View Post
    I posted this elsewhere but it's depressing (and scandalous) that Virtue and Moir lost PCS to that hideous program of Davis and White's.

    I don't know what to think about this season. I don't know if the marking of Davis and White is to make up for last season's worlds results (where a lot of people thought Davis and White should have won with DF), is it because the judges are planning on giving Virtue and Moir the world title so they are throwing D/W the "GPF bone" (like last season), or are they setting D/W up to win worlds (remember no Canadian judge on the panel in London) and so giving them these kind of marks and point difference over Virtue and Moir means it won't be a surprise or scandal if V/M lose to D/W by the time Worlds in V/Ms hometown rolls around.

    What I'd like to know is what Marina Z is doing and saying behind the scenes.
    One of my big fears after the manufactured controversy over V/M's win at Worlds last season was that they would pay for it politically this year. I'm starting to think I was right on target with that fear. At this point, due solely to poltiics, I'll be shocked if they win again internationally this season.

  15. #75
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    Guys, I don't think we have to panic yet? Yes, it bothers me too. Yes, what they are doing is not being appreciated, but there's time. Remember all this negativity affected their performance last year. Let's try to focus on the positives: both programs grew. The free dance even gained more than 5 points, that's good. It is a program that can keep growing. You know who should feel sad? C-L. I do not get the Grand Prix judges, which is why I ask again: are these judges allowed to be on international-level panels such as the 4CC, Worlds and the Olympics?

  16. #76

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    You guys I'm actually happy they scored at least 108 I thought they might get 105 cuz the judges refuse to see this incredible, artistic program for what it is. It's so frustrating! I hope that Tessa and Scott don't start making all these changes to the programs like they did last year. Lets be honest they might say all they want that scores doesn't matter, but come on we all know they want to win. And actually this will just motivate them even more.

    How did the crowd react to their performance by the way?

    And pani try to enjoy the rest of your trip! And I'm praying Scott doesn't decide to give any side interviews this year lol.

  17. #77

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    Btw, I don't like the changes the made to the diagonal sequence. If they are still only getting level 3, what's the point of changing it??

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafter View Post
    Btw, I don't like the changes the made to the diagonal sequence. If they are still only getting level 3, what's the point of changing it??
    Didn't they get level 2 previously?

  19. #79
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    When V/M win, other camp cries Skate Canada politicking hard. When D/W win, this camp cries USFSA politicking hard.

    Politicking is expected, except this camp can give solid reasons on why V/W wins when they do(unison, edge work, etc) and other camp can only say they skated well and skated fast. I still have not read a convincing argument anywhere on why D/W won every PCS marks.

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