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  1. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    I do that a lot, even to people I don't know. I will tell people that they have beautiful eyes or that I like their outfit or haircut. Most of the time I get a big smile and thank you. But, sometimes I get this weird look. Why is it odd to say something nice to a stranger?
    It's because it's not common to just say something nice with really nothing in return, apparently. It doesn't change my actions. And frankly, I know that look in the eyes. A kind word goes very far. To one it doesn't register, to others it might be the light in their day. I err on the 'make someone happy' error.

  2. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Forrest View Post
    I just think that diagnosed mental illness, or even undiagnosed, should not be disregarded or minimalized. If someone had a heart attack on a prank where someone was scared half to death, I'm sure most people would agree, this person would not have had the heart attack and died. Forget that a healthy person who took care of his/her body probably should not have 90% blockage in their coronary arteries and die from a prank. Yet when someone with a mental illness suffers from a prank, it seems more people are likely to just say "Well there was more to it, than just the prank, she clearly had issues". Yeah, well the person who died in fright also clearly had other issues too like cardiovascular disease usually caused by diet and lifestyle.
    Was she a nurse or a receptionist? If she was a nurse and was so mentally instable that that call she passed on to the station, which, personally, I don't think was the big deal, the "big deal" was that the second nurse gave out the information, was the final straw to drive her into suicide then what on earth was she doing working in such a mentally and physically straining job?
    I find that everyone's at fault, the DJs, the radio station, the nurses or hospital depending on what hospital policy is, however, the nurse who died, in my opinion, is the done who's the least to blame. She just passed on a call...

    That aside, German newspapers have repeatedly reported that the British media has labelled it a suicide and that the investigation is ongoing and cause of death has not yet been confirmed. For all we know, she could actually have died of a heart-attack...

  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballettmaus View Post
    I find that everyone's at fault, the DJs, the radio station, the nurses or hospital depending on what hospital policy is, however, the nurse who died, in my opinion, is the done who's the least to blame. She just passed on a call...

    That aside, German newspapers have repeatedly reported that the British media has labelled it a suicide and that the investigation is ongoing and cause of death has not yet been confirmed. For all we know, she could actually have died of a heart-attack...
    Right, so it's more 'legitimate' to die from a heart attack due to her health/lifestyle, than if she suicided due her mental health/lifestyle. Not buying it. It's actually making me quite angry.

  4. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Forrest View Post
    It's because it's not common to just say something nice with really nothing in return, apparently. It doesn't change my actions. And frankly, I know that look in the eyes. A kind word goes very far. To one it doesn't register, to others it might be the light in their day. I err on the 'make someone happy' error.
    Me too!

  5. #225
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    Opps
    Last edited by cruisin; 12-12-2012 at 01:59 PM.

  6. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by orbitz View Post
    You called a place, pretending to be someone else as a joke to see if you can get information.
    These pranks aren't even meant to get information. The whole premise behind the joke is that the audience and the caller knows something that the person being called does not know. They just want the other person to talk because they will probably say something inadvertantly funny that's only funny because the audience knows what's going on. They didn't really care about Kate's condition and the purpose of the call wasn't to find out information about Kate. These pranks can work even if the person picking up the phone gives them a hard time and tells them nothing.

    Part of why I rarely find these sorts of jokes funny is that often times the person on the other end isn't a quick thinker and so there really isn't anything there. If you get someone who figures out it's a prank and goes along, that can be funnier than if the person never catches on because that person is a quick thinker and will say droll things.

    Quote Originally Posted by zippy View Post
    I do believe it would be illegal in the US for the media to get and publicize protected health information under false pretenses, as this radio station did.
    Except it's not. As you said, HIPAA doesn't apply to DJs and there really isn't any other law that could be invoked.
    Actual bumper sticker series: Jesus is my co-pilot. Satan is my financial advisor. Budha is my therapist. L. Ron Hubbard owes me $50.

  7. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    Except it's not. As you said, HIPAA doesn't apply to DJs and there really isn't any other law that could be invoked.
    Right. Unfortunately it is the well-intentioned nurse that should lose her job. The DJs were just doing their jobs of pranking and creating mayhem. Should they be off the hook, so to speak? I think not.
    Last edited by Alex Forrest; 12-12-2012 at 10:42 AM.

  8. #228

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    Quote Originally Posted by ballettmaus View Post

    That aside, German newspapers have repeatedly reported that the British media has labelled it a suicide and that the investigation is ongoing and cause of death has not yet been confirmed. For all we know, she could actually have died of a heart-attack...
    It's unconfirmed, but the reports are that she was found hanged. It's pretty hard to confuse that with a heart attack, although I agree if she'd just been found unconscious, then it could have been anything.

    The coroner's inquest will be opened tomorrow. I guess only time will tell.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching.

  9. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    Except it's not. As you said, HIPAA doesn't apply to DJs and there really isn't any other law that could be invoked.
    It's written on several hospital media guides and other info out there for journalists that it is, if 'false pretenses' are involved. Here's a quote from one such media guide from Baton Rouge General Medical Center:

    A reporter who obtains PHI [protected health information] in violation of the Privacy Rule under "false pretenses" (for example, where the reporter does not identify him/herself as a member of the press) could be subject to a criminal penalty under HIPAA of up to five years in prison and/or a $100,000 fine. In addition, members of the press could be subject to common law tort liability for breach of privacy by writing, producing, and publishing a story that uses PHI disclosed to them in violation of the Privacy Rule.
    After checking out a few legal journals I got the impression there's some debate about this. Some argued that the language of the law means that anyone, covered entity or not, who causes PHI to be breached is subject to HIPAA penalties, but on the whole it seems more accepted that it only applies to those affiliated with a covered entity. So it's possible that people making the media guidelines are just erring on the side of caution. Still, if not applicable under HIPAA there's privacy tort law.

  10. #230
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    From what I understand, the Baton Rouge General Medical Center is being overly generous in their interpretation of HIPAA and I suspect they are just hoping people follow that and don't push it. It would be great if a lawyer could weigh in though.

    Though HIPAA doesn't apply in the UK or Australia so I guess it's moot.
    Actual bumper sticker series: Jesus is my co-pilot. Satan is my financial advisor. Budha is my therapist. L. Ron Hubbard owes me $50.

  11. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    He obviously didn't know she was fragile enough that this would make her kill herself.
    Exactly. How many people who are friends and family of suicides had any idea that the person who killed themselves was at a point of doing it? Generally, it's the suicidal who actually go through with it (rather than people who admit to being sucidaly depressed and get help) where people say after the fact they never suspected, the person didn't SEEM suicidal, etc.

    FWIW, I have heard some reports that she was already feeling pressured at work, not necessarily on the best terms with coworkers, etc. I won't say "bullied" because I haven't seen any evidence, but it was implied at least she wasn't surrounded by friends and was under pressure. Rather than a cause (and given how little time she actually seems to have been on the call and what it sounded like, I think saying she was IN ANY WAY bullied by the DJs is taking that definition to absolutely absurd lengths) possibly the thought that she was going to be disciplined professionally, mocked by coworkers, etc. might have been the last straw for someone already on edge, depressed, scared, something. I wouldn't even say that this MADE her do it. Suicide is a voluntary action (certain cultural and political situations aside). No one MAKES someone else kill themselves. But this might have been one stress too many, and we DON'T really know how the hospital administration and her coworkers were initially treating her and the situation. I would like to know what her work situation and relationship with her coworkers was like before assuming that one five-second contact with people 15,000 miles around the world doing a relatively goofy prank was solely responsible for her killing herself.

  12. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by *Jen* View Post
    It's unconfirmed, but the reports are that she was found hanged. It's pretty hard to confuse that with a heart attack, although I agree if she'd just been found unconscious, then it could have been anything.

    The coroner's inquest will be opened tomorrow. I guess only time will tell.
    She also left a 'note'. I guess someone could do that if they are dying from natural causes; but I highly doubt it.

  13. #233

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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    Though HIPAA doesn't apply in the UK or Australia so I guess it's moot.
    This.

    I really doubt anything will ever come of this, legally. I tend to think charges would have been laid before now, and the police haven't even spoken to the DJs at this stage. They could be waiting for the outcome of the enquiry but the station's 'contribution' to the family probably amounts to a settlement.

    The DJ didn't even say her "I'm the Queen" bit until AFTER the information had been given out, so if the entire claim rests on a bad fake accent and people barking like corgis while someone asks to speak to her granddaughter (who isn't REALLY her granddaughter), I think it's stretching it.

    It was a bad prank, it went wrong, there was outrage, but law doesn't always agree with morals.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching.

  14. #234

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    Quote Originally Posted by *Jen* View Post
    This.

    I really doubt anything will ever come of this, legally. I tend to think charges would have been laid before now, and the police haven't even spoken to the DJs at this stage. They could be waiting for the outcome of the enquiry but the station's 'contribution' to the family probably amounts to a settlement.

    The DJ didn't even say her "I'm the Queen" bit until AFTER the information had been given out, so if the entire claim rests on a bad fake accent and people barking like corgis while someone asks to speak to her granddaughter (who isn't REALLY her granddaughter), I think it's stretching it.

    It was a bad prank, it went wrong, there was outrage, but law doesn't always agree with morals.
    It's not the false pretences that may bring charges, it's putting it on air without permission, apparently. The NSW Police have interviewed the DJs on request from London. There will be a full enquiry/inquest before the coroner's report is released to the public. ACMA is now investigating as well. I still really can't believe that there aren't also investigations on the hospital's policies with regards to privacy and correct staffing.

  15. #235

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    It's not the false pretences that may bring charges, it's putting it on air without permission, apparently. The NSW Police have interviewed the DJs on request from London. There will be a full enquiry/inquest before the coroner's report is released to the public. ACMA is now investigating as well. I still really can't believe that there aren't also investigations on the hospital's policies with regards to privacy and correct staffing.
    There may well be. It's a private hospital so it's not as transparent as a NHS one would be.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching.

  16. #236

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    Quote Originally Posted by *Jen* View Post
    There may well be. It's a private hospital so it's not as transparent as a NHS one would be.
    I think it would in their best interest to make that public, though I don't think they want to admit any fault.

  17. #237

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    Nurse's Death

    Yep, unfortunately, she hung herself and left 3 suicide notes. Just an overall tragedy that could easily have been prevented.

  18. #238

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    I think it would in their best interest to make that public, though I don't think they want to admit any fault.
    I think you've nailed it. Admitting fault could cost them the Royal Family, and they don't want to do that.

    The inquest has been adjourned until the end of March, and I guess we won't know much more before then.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching.

  19. #239

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    Quote Originally Posted by skipaway View Post
    Nurse's Death

    Yep, unfortunately, she hung herself and left 3 suicide notes. Just an overall tragedy that could easily have been prevented.
    Easily prevented how? If this woman was mentally unstable enough to kill herself over this, it's likely something in the future would have tipped her over the edge, and that's assuming the call is what she considered that 'last straw'. Suicidal people rarely seek help that makes a difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by *Jen* View Post
    I think you've nailed it. Admitting fault could cost them the Royal Family, and they don't want to do that.
    If the Royal Family stay at this hospital again, they're crazy.

  20. #240
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    My ex's ex was a nurse who wrote several papers on horizontal violence. Her experience was that older, experienced nurses who had worked together for a time tended to bully new and inexperienced nurses to the point that some would quit the profession, others became perpetual victims, or worked their way up the clique to continue the circle. From some of the experiences I have had with a few case nurses in my department, I have seen that dymanic, and imagine it would be tenfold in a hospital environment.

    Maybe it's a case of high stress, a competitive and sometimes hostile work environment, and personal issues moreso than a stupid prank.

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