Change.org petition to Toys"R" Us

[Prancer]

I'd love to believe that but the wage gap seems to have held pretty steady or at least only narrowed slightly since the 70s.

According to the National Committee on Pay Equity, women earned 59% of what men did in 1979.

Depending on whose stats you use for this year, women are now earning 77%-85% of what men earn. Studies that have adjusted for things like time taken off for maternity leave place the gap at around 9%.

[BlueRidge]

According to the National Committee on Pay Equity, women earned 59% of what men did in 1979.

Depending on whose stats you use for this year, women are now earning 77%-85% of what men earn. Studies that have adjusted for things like time taken off for maternity leave place the gap at around 9%.

I'd hope we have made a good bit of progress since 1979! Even if women do still buy pink razors.

I do think there are still problems of discrimination against women in employment. I'm not quite ready to say its males who will be discriminated against in short order. But I'm not sure the connection with toys.

[Prancer]

I'd hope we have made a good bit of progress since 1979! Even if women do still buy pink razors.

I do think there are still problems of discrimination against women in employment. I'm not quite ready to say its males who will be discriminated against in short order. But I'm not sure the connection with toys.

I don't think males will be discriminated against. Males simply aren't going to be competitive, at least not enough of them--in spite of playing with the "better" toys.

The wage gap was stagnant for many years but started improving steadily right around 1994. Toys R Us opened its first store in 1994.

Coincidence....or pink power at work?

[BlueRidge]

I don't think males will be discriminated against. Males simply aren't going to be competitive, at least not enough of them--in spite of playing with the "better" toys.

I find that hard to believe. I know that males without college degrees are falling behind these days and that's a big problem. But I'm not sure women without college degrees are doing all that well either. Regardless of toys.

[Prancer]

I find that hard to believe. I know that males without college degrees are falling behind these days and that's a big problem. But I'm not sure women without college degrees are doing all that well either. Regardless of toys.

They aren't. But women are going to college in much greater numbers than men--and to many other post-secondary schools as well. Women have been earning more bachelor's degrees than men for quite awhile, but now, women earn more advanced degrees than men and outnumber men in most professional schools. Engineering hasn't toppled yet, but it will. The trend is there. And it's not just school; men are also dropping out of the work force.

The Coming American Matriarchy

Income Gap Closing: Women On Pace To Outearn Men

[BlueRidge]

Women may be outearning men at the beginning of their careers--but that story flips higher up the professional food chain. Some research has shown that there is an 40 percent pay gap between women and men with business school degrees, 10 years out from graduate school.

I think the jury is still out on the coming "matriarchy."

[MacMadame]

According to the National Committee on Pay Equity, women earned 59% of what men did in 1979.

When I was working in 1979, I was reading stats that put the gap as not that big. Don't make me look it up!!

I think the jury is still out on the coming "matriarchy."

Yeah, predicting the future is precarious.

What I am seeing is that my profession, that used to be white male dominated and pay really well is less white male dominated and also doesn't pay as well. If more women get into professional fields, I suspect those fields will start paying less well as well.

[maatTheViking]

So I flipped through a toys r us catalog that came with the Sunday paper with this thread in mind.

I found that most toys were split by age and manufacturer (wooden trains and doll house next to each other), or deal (2 fir one action men, hello kitty stuff).

Yes there was a burly pink princess section, and it was boys using the toy tool benches - but the fisher price kitchen was gender neutral, and there was a girl riding a black electric car, and she didn't even wear a pink jacket.
Most of the girls had pink helmet for bikes/scooter pics, but there was a girl with a black skateboard style helmet finding a green scooter, and I couldn't decide if the medium long haired kid beside her was a boy or a girl.


So, looking at the catalog, I really don't think it reinforces gender 'segregation' of toys for the most part.

Relax, the human race will be OK.

[Prancer]

I think the jury is still out on the coming "matriarchy."

Perhaps, although the matriarchy refers not to wages but to the cultural elite. But the majority of men in high-paying jobs right now are baby boomers and there are fewer and fewer younger men coming through the pipeline, so who is going to take those jobs?

The Great Jobs Mystery: Why Are So Many Men Dropping Out of the Workforce?

Men have been gradually leaving the labor force since the 1960s, but the rate has accelerated sharply in the last decade. Young men aren't going to college. Old men are retiring.

There is no doubt that men's participation in the labor force will improve as the economy improves--but while the economy is bad, it is women who are getting education and training, not men. And that means that it will have to be women, not men, who get the kind of jobs requiring education and training.

When I was working in 1979, I was reading stats that put the gap as not that big. Don't make me look it up!!

What you look up or don't depends on whether you intend to dispute the stats or not, not on me.

Here's the chart: http://www.pay-equity.org/info-time.html

The cited source is: Census Bureau reports and data, Current Population Reports, Median Earning of Workers 15 Years Old and Over by Work Experience and Sex.

I would assume that they use the worst figures available to make their point, but those figures are similar to some I've seen elsewhere.

What I am seeing is that my profession, that used to be white male dominated and pay really well is less white male dominated and also doesn't pay as well. If more women get into professional fields, I suspect those fields will start paying less well as well.

If the professional fields start paying less well, then who will be making good wages? And are we talking about "good" wages or the wages of men relative to women?

I think computer software jobs pay less not because there are fewer white men doing the work, but because there are more immigrants doing the work. Traditionally, white immigrants have been paid less for the same work than native-born citizens as well, although the darker the skin, the lower the pay. Nevertheless, computer science is still one of the highest paying jobs anyone can get with a four-year degree.

[MacMadame]

So I flipped through a toys r us catalog that came with the Sunday paper with this thread in mind.

Is this a US ad or one in Denmark? (I thought you lived in Denmark.) I think it makes a difference. They are going to cater to their market with their ads.

Though I haven't looked at their web site or their ads (my kids are too old for Toys "R" Us), so I don't really know if the petition is justified. My arguments here aren't that Toys "R" Us is evil, but that all this stuff does make a difference and has an impact and we'd do well to examine that rather than just shrug it off and declare that it is no big deal. Marketing works and we don't live in a vacuum so marketing both reflects and shapes our world view.

What you look up or don't depends on whether you intend to dispute the stats or not, not on me.

There you go being all logical again. Though you then provide the stats for me so I don't have to spend a lazy Sunday morning looking them up so perhaps my ploy worked after all.

If the professional fields start paying less well, then who will be making good wages? And are we talking about "good" wages or the wages of men relative to women?

Plumbers?

But actually what I see happening is that the middle class is vanishing. So the CEOs and top execs will make good wages (and those seem predominately men because of the glass ceiling) and everyone else will continue to drop in wages so that there becomes this big gap with hardly anyone straddling it. I think that women having more degrees will contribute to that.

the darker the skin, the lower the pay.

And also what gender you are. Which is why I don't see women entering traditionally male fields as necessarily impacting the wage gap in a straightforward way. I see that, as women enter a profession in larger and larger numbers, the perception of that profession changes and wages drop relative to what they have been.

If you look at the chart you provided, you can see that the gap hovered around 60% for decades and then start rising at a certain rate starting around the early to mid 80s. But soon after, while the rate is still going up, the rate of growth has slowed. There's nothing to say that the rate of growth will hold steady. It could slow down or stop or it could accelerate but I vote for it leveling off at some point. I don't believe it will ever close, at least not in the near future. (And I also think predicting past 10-20 years is fruitless. I'm a bundle of optimism today.)

I also don't think it's fair to "correct" for taking time off for maternity leave because again that's something that our culture and economy dictates that women do not something that women have to do. In other countries, parents often share that burden because there is family leave that's equal for both men and women. Also, in families where the woman makes more than guy, that puts pressure on the guy to stay home with the kids over the woman.

So who makes more money contribute to who stays home and correcting your figures for it is just smoothing over the issues.

[milanessa]

Is this a US ad or one in Denmark? (I thought you lived in Denmark.) I think it makes a difference. They are going to cater to their market with their ads.

Maat is Danish but she lives in the US right now (for work, I think.) She's out there on the west coast with you.

[Southpaw]

Toys R Us opened its first store in 1994.

You lie, woman! I remember drooling over the Toys R Us circulars in the 70s AND I went to Toys R Us after seeing "The Muppet Movie" (the first one) in the theater and I bought a Duncan Butterfly yoyo. The movie theater is long gone but that Toys R Us is still there.

[MacMadame]

Maat is Danish but she lives in the US right now (for work, I think.) She's out there on the west coast with you.

Well that probably explains the reasonably balance ad then. We granola types eat up that gender neutral shite.

P.S. stores under the Toys R Us came about in the late 50s according to their web site. The first store with a different name was started in 1948.

[Alex Forrest]

The wage gap was stagnant for many years but started improving steadily right around 1994. Toys R Us opened its first store in 1994.

Coincidence....or pink power at work?

Did you mean 1974? I remember the Toys R Us commercials in the 70s and early 80s "I don't wanna grow up, I'm a Toys R Us kid, they have a million toys at Toys R Us that I can play with. I don't wanna grow up because maybe if I did, I couldn't be a Toys R Us kid". What an effective commercial considering I can still repeat it after 30 years.

Here's an 80s commercial: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJJ-ZLdrTwY

ETA: Oops I see it was corrected. But does any kid from the 70s and 80s remember these commercials?

[BlueRidge]

You lie, woman! I remember drooling over the Toys R Us circulars in the 70s AND I went to Toys R Us after seeing "The Muppet Movie" (the first one) in the theater and I bought a Duncan Butterfly yoyo. The movie theater is long gone but that Toys R Us is still there.

uh yeah dang Toys R us was there when I was growing up though I actually never was in one as a kid! But this made me wiki it and find a piece of info particularly interesting to me and not necessarily anyone else

Charles Lazarus initially started Children's Supermart (which would evolve into Toys"R"Us) in Washington, DC during the post-war baby boom era in 1948 as a baby-furniture retailer. Its first location was at 2461 18th St, NW, where the nightclub Madam's Organ Blues Bar is located.

Neighborhood history! The wiki entry seems to indicate that it became Toys R Us in 1957.

[milanessa]

I'd rather go to Madam's Organ Blues Bar than Toys R Us.

[BlueRidge]

I probably would too, although I've never been there either, despite it being 2 blocks from my house. Mostly I'd rather not go to either.

ETA: actually Madam's Organ (for those not in the know about DC its a play on the name of the neighborhood, Adams Morgan) belongs in this thread as its painted logo outside the bar has been the object of feminist ire as being demeaning to women:

Madam's Organ Madam and her madams...

[MacMadame]

The wiki entry seems to indicate that it became Toys R Us in 1957.

A very good year!

ETA: actually Madam's Organ (for those not in the know about DC its a play on the name of the neighborhood, Adams Morgan) belongs in this thread as its painted logo outside the bar has been the object of feminist ire as being demeaning to women:

Madam's Organ Madam and her madams...

Seriously? Now THAT is making a big deal about nothing.

[BlueRidge]

My Advisory Neighborhood Commissioner, a gay man, was quite intense about it in fact. This is quite a few years ago now.

[milanessa]

My Advisory Neighborhood Commissioner...

What is an Advisory Neighborhood Commissioner? Sounds vaguely Soviet.