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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willowway View Post
    The 'ladies' comments came from Mishin in his rant right after Plushenko won the silver. Specifically, “Any judge who thinks this is the right champion is a Cyclops,” Mishin said. “Without the quad, there is no difference between the men’s competition and the women’s. Why not let them skate together? Why not have it as a unisex competition in the Olympics?” http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/van...lushenko021810
    Plushenko didn't intended to mock Chan himself, isn't the same thing. After Vancouver was a big controversy about male skating, and it seems Mishin and Plush won it. Rosie DiManno was disgusting, no doubt, you don't speak about Vancouver, please...

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    After Vancouver was a big controversy about male skating, and it seems Mishin and Plush won it.
    Won what? And won how?

    Men's skating wasn't all about the quads in 2010 and still isn't. The men's field in Vancouver was particularly weak. Plushenko had only one quad and skated a mediocre empty program. Lycasek was the rightful winner, and I say that even though I really don't care for him.

    The top level of the men's field has improved tremendously since then in terms of both artistic levels and quads. If Chan, Fernadez and the top three Japanese skate their best in Sochi, Plush will have a hard time getting on the podium. Not to discredit him in any way though - having a good skate and landing a quad in his fourth Olympics will hopefully be enough. I wouldn't want to see him go out with a whimper, like Stojko.

  3. #63
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    Exactly what did Mishin win? If he had his way Mens skating would be nothing but a jumping contest. It sure showed judging by Plushenko's programs from Vancouver. Has Mishin ever heard the word transitions?

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Exactly what did Mishin win? If he had his way Mens skating would be nothing but a jumping contest. It sure showed judging by Plushenko's programs from Vancouver. Has Mishin ever heard the word transitions?
    When did Mishin say he wanted a jump contest? Is there a system in place to score such a thing?

  5. #65
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    Aren't you tired of arguing about this? I mean after Vancouver the value for quads increased, that is truth. You can argue whether the result of Vancouver leading to this change. Besides, now all high level men skaters can jump multiple quads, it is a good thing, isn't it?

    Of course you can say that because Chan starts to jump quads so now all senior men need quads. Happy? Jeez.

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by yaya124 View Post
    Aren't you tired of arguing about this? I mean after Vancouver the value for quads increased, that is truth. You can argue whether the result of Vancouver leading to this change. Besides, now all high level men skaters can jump multiple quads, it is a good thing, isn't it?

    Of course you can say that because Chan starts to jump quads so now all senior men need quads. Happy? Jeez.
    Why would it have anything to do with Chan, when Chan wasn't landing quads consistently at Vancouver?

    I think it's more people saying that Plushenko and/or Mishin single handedly got the COP changed because of his silver medal which is complete BS, there are a number of skaters and coaches who complained about the value of quads as has already been mentioned up thread, and when the rule changes were proposed, there was a whole document with loads of changes set out with backing from different federations, some of which were brought in and some of them weren't.

    Stop pedaling the idea that Plushenko saved the earth and cured cancer with his silver medal in Vancouver and you might get people to stop reacting.

  7. #67
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    I really wish people would stop linking to this hack of a "journalist's" columns. The more it gets linked, the more hits it gets, the better numbers she has and her paper will continue to assign her to skating.

    I'm not even going to read it. She's shown us far, far too many times over the years that she does not understand or appreciate figure skating, its skaters or fans. Unfortunately, she has space in a high circulation newspaper and nowadays online as well, and she makes all of figure skating look bad. A detriment to the sport, and a detriment to her profession.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    I really wish people would stop linking to this hack of a "journalist's" columns. The more it gets linked, the more hits it gets, the better numbers she has and her paper will continue to assign her to skating.

    I'm not even going to read it. She's shown us far, far too many times over the years that she does not understand or appreciate figure skating, its skaters or fans. Unfortunately, she has space in a high circulation newspaper and nowadays online as well, and she makes all of figure skating look bad. A detriment to the sport, and a detriment to her profession.
    I opened this thread only because I saw your name as the most recent poster , and I have to say I COULD NOT AGREE MORE! I know "me too" posts are discouraged, but Rosie has been trying to be the "shock jock" of skating for probably 15+ years. Her shtick isn't working any better now than it ever has.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    Won what? And won how?

    Men's skating wasn't all about the quads in 2010 and still isn't. The men's field in Vancouver was particularly weak. Plushenko had only one quad and skated a mediocre empty program. Lycasek was the rightful winner, and I say that even though I really don't care for him.

    The top level of the men's field has improved tremendously since then in terms of both artistic levels and quads. If Chan, Fernadez and the top three Japanese skate their best in Sochi, Plush will have a hard time getting on the podium. Not to discredit him in any way though - having a good skate and landing a quad in his fourth Olympics will hopefully be enough. I wouldn't want to see him go out with a whimper, like Stojko.
    They won. I'm surprised because you don't see the connect. Lysacek's victory was very controversial, maybe you don't know this. But who are live in Europe, know in many European country Plushenko was the real winner. In the news, articles communicated these views. And was a great debate among experts. The the ISU was great under pressure, because Plushenko's fans wanted to the revision of results and they wrote to directly to the ISU and IOC. This was the reason why Rogge spoke a few days after the competiton. And many figure skating fans asked the ISU that raise the value of the quad, you know. Of course, the ISU has not changed the result, but on the next meeting has changed the rules. And after this change, Chan begun to learn the quad.
    Transition, transition, aren't the most important part of figure skating, I think.
    Check it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadruple_jump_controversy
    and this, and it wasn't the only one
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbbfflDE4PE
    the Japanese author wrote to under the video:

    I looked into the protocol of 2010 Olympic.
    I protest against all the unfair judges not only toward Plushenko but all the skaters.

    P.S. I'll send a document to IOC. Document is available in http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AU...dmRyN2My&hl=en
    Thank you for your seeing this video!

    Chan: “I kind of took the side that if you did a clean program without the quad you can still win and you can be comfortable,”
    “But to be honest, it’s a whole different level to be doing quads, a whole different level of confidence.”
    “I understand now. I’m on the other side of the wall. It’s a level of excitement I’m talking about. You just elevate your program to that level of excitement where everyone else who has done quads, like Plushenko, has that excitement."

    Plushenko said, they like this figure skating, this is progress
    Last edited by lala; 12-07-2012 at 09:45 PM.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glacier cat View Post
    Chan never mock Plushenko in front of Russian media.

    http://en.rian.ru/sports/20121206/177959555.html
    After today's GPF I think Chan had better start worrying about Hanyu in 2014 and not Plushy---much as I love him and hope he does make a good showing.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItalianFan View Post
    After today's GPF I think Chan had better start worrying about Hanyu in 2014 and not Plushy---much as I love him and hope he does make a good showing.
    Chan said the experience is important for OG. He learned it in 2010.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glacier cat View Post
    Chan never mock Plushenko in front of Russian media.

    http://en.rian.ru/sports/20121206/177959555.html
    The article says that Russia will have one male skater in Sochi. Isn't that still to be determined at Worlds?

    Quote Originally Posted by leapfrogonice View Post
    It is so classic for the level of HATE to come out between Canada and Russia. Hate hate hate. "Terrific"
    Actually, many Canadian fans prefer Russian skaters to skaters from the US, despite the fact that so many people think that Canada just blindly follows the USA in everything.

    There has always been a rivalry in many sports where many Canadians want anyone but USA to win. Heck at the world junior hockey championships in Canada, USA was playing I think Denmark or Finland, and the audience just kept going crazy for them, cheering loudly for them the entire time. Just because they weren't USA.

    Back to the topic at hand, who do you think would win in a bitter, opinionated snark-off? DiManno or Hersh?

  13. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    Plushenko didn't intended to mock Chan himself, isn't the same thing. After Vancouver was a big controversy about male skating, and it seems Mishin and Plush won it. Rosie DiManno was disgusting, no doubt, you don't speak about Vancouver, please...
    They won? I was unaware there was an award for being the "biggest whiner about the outcome" but if there was are we sure they won? Weir whined even more IMHO.

    I don't recall them winnning anything. Seems like the winner was someone else LOL!

    However, if there is a competetion for attempting to win by not skating but talking about it a lot, Plushy is in there once again with Evan. Lots of talk, lots of fan claiming all kinds of stuff and probably not an outcome anyone will ever care about IMHO but...

  14. #74

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    I can't believe people are seriously arguing against mishin and plushenko winning the quad argument and the direction men's skating took. Turning the sport into a jumping contest was never ever what plushenko or mishin were saying it is what defenders of Lysacek win said they wanted. They said a quad should be a part of men's skating and it is now and they won - end of story.

    And plushenko is reigning European and Russian champion so he win stuff within the year so whatever about plushenko being all talk.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carolla5501 View Post
    They won? I was unaware there was an award for being the "biggest whiner about the outcome" but if there was are we sure they won? Weir whined even more IMHO.

    I don't recall them winnning anything. Seems like the winner was someone else LOL!

    However, if there is a competetion for attempting to win by not skating but talking about it a lot, Plushy is in there once again with Evan. Lots of talk, lots of fan claiming all kinds of stuff and probably not an outcome anyone will ever care about IMHO but...
    I can't believe, that a reasonable beings can't understand the arguments and repeats from same things:
    "Plushy is a whiner" -he isn't, but was brave after the competiton
    "It is not a quad jump competition" - nobody said this stupid thing
    "The quad is not everything" -of course..
    But the facts are facts. Plushy had army of defenders, who supported him, not only fans, but experts, coaches, skaters. And the ISU has changed the rules, because of the big scandal and outrage. To deny this fact is something like that he isn't artistic, despite the fact he had more 6.0 like Michelle Kwan's.

  16. #76
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    Sorry, didn't mean to stir the pot. My recollection of the press conference was that Plushy was asked about Chan.....Plushy mentioned he had no quad and then mentioned with a sly smile that Mao Asada was doing 2 triple Axels in her OG programs.....He said "2 triple axels and triple jumps is ladies competition".
    Quote Originally Posted by kittysk8ts View Post
    In Vancouver in 2010 Plushenko was asked a question about Chan and he said anyone without a quad should be competing with the ladies, lol.

  17. #77
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    Why has no woman done a quad since the one ando did years ago?

  18. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    They won. I'm surprised because you don't see the connect. Lysacek's victory was very controversial, maybe you don't know this. But who are live in Europe, know in many European country Plushenko was the real winner. In the news, articles communicated these views. And was a great debate among experts. The the ISU was great under pressure, because Plushenko's fans wanted to the revision of results and they wrote to directly to the ISU and IOC. This was the reason why Rogge spoke a few days after the competiton. And many figure skating fans asked the ISU that raise the value of the quad, you know. Of course, the ISU has not changed the result, but on the next meeting has changed the rules.
    Do you have a link to a detailed and solid defense of why Plush should have won? Even one would be nice to read. By that, I mean comparing each and every element and analyzing their point value. Including PCS.

    Just because Plush landed a quad does not mean he should have won. The outrage at the time was about the champion's lack of a quad. There was concern that the men's field was regressing, and many piped in on that. But this doesn't make the result controversial.

    And if you feel that quad was worth too few points, that also doesn't make the result controversial.

    I looked into the protocol of 2010 Olympic.
    I protest against all the unfair judges not only toward Plushenko but all the skaters.
    Perhaps you would like to present a detailed defense of this claim and explain why each and every skater was wrongly judged? Giving some examples of what rightful judging would have produced in terms of results would be good as well.

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    Why is competing considered anymore stressful on his body than practicing---or is his practice schedule curtailed too.

  20. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    Do you have a link to a detailed and solid defense of why Plush should have won? Even one would be nice to read. By that, I mean comparing each and every element and analyzing their point value. Including PCS.

    Just because Plush landed a quad does not mean he should have won. The outrage at the time was about the champion's lack of a quad. There was concern that the men's field was regressing, and many piped in on that. But this doesn't make the result controversial.

    And if you feel that quad was worth too few points, that also doesn't make the result controversial.



    Perhaps you would like to present a detailed defense of this claim and explain why each and every skater was wrongly judged? Giving some examples of what rightful judging would have produced in terms of results would be good as well.
    Thank you amd well said.
    Crazy about sports!

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