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  1. #21
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    I consider myself a Plush uber, but I didn't think the article was that bad, and I was at Chan's snark... for once, I thought it was great.

    At its heart what she says is true: he picks and chooses the competitions. Olympics, Euros, and Nationals are important to him, Worlds and the Grand Prix are not. There are myriad reasons for it - injury, travel, whatever, but ultimately, it's his choice and he can't be surprised if journalists remark on it. I doubt he would be offended or bothered by this article at all.

  2. #22

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    I just understand why Plushy has so many haters in North -America. Because the Americans people read such stupid journalists.
    "Americans" typically refers to people who live in the U.S. There is no one who will fess up what's wrong with this country easier than me but...why do people assume that all English-speaking people are one, or even listen to each other? We are not, in this case and all cases, Canada; on a separate thread the other day, it was assumed that an article that came out of Dublin also reflected a broader opinion I think because it was written in English.

    The U.S. has lots of faults and we're impossible sometimes but we're just us. We don't necessarily read Canadian papers unless we live near the border and we hold our own opinions, sometimes the same as our Canadian neighbors, often very different. I think people who presume to make generalizations about North Americans risk error - there are very few things are distinctly and really North American in nature.

    I dare say that there are journalists in Russia who you would not want me to think represent the broad Russian point of view. Do I assume that the written opinions of one journalist (or even several) represents all Russians? I would hope not.

    Maybe the opinions expressed in this article don't represent Canada; I wouldn't presume that either. Maybe they just represent this writer. Jumping to generalizations about groups of people based on the behavior or words of one person isn't usually the intelligent thing to do...is that too much of a generalization?!
    Last edited by Willowway; 12-05-2012 at 11:16 PM.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    At its heart what she says is true: he picks and chooses the competitions. Olympics, Euros, and Nationals are important to him, Worlds and the Grand Prix are not. There are myriad reasons for it - injury, travel, whatever, but ultimately, it's his choice and he can't be surprised if journalists remark on it. I doubt he would be offended or bothered by this article at all.
    Yes, he does pick and choose comps. I'll be one of the first to stick my hand up and say that. But what this article completely glosses over is WHY. He's not doing it because he's an arrogant snob (which is what she says). He's doing it because jeez, his body can't handle that many comps anymore. So he chooses the ones that are and always have been important to him - Nationals, and Euros.

    Although I agree that if someone told him about this article, he would probably have a laugh and add it to his fuel canister...

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    I don't think that the skating fans who don't like his skating are haters. I didn't speak about them. I read many comments from Americans people who were absolute uninformed about Plushy's career. But they were very hateful toward Plush. Yes, I'm uber, I know his all programs at competitions and in galas since 1996, I watched them many times, so I know what I'm talking about. The artistic impression is very subjectiv, you know. Who can adjudge it? The judges? Well, he got 75 6.0 most of them were artistry points.
    I never understood why people act shocked when some fans consider Plushenko artistic, considering he received so many perfect 6.0s under the old system and excellent PCS under the new system as well. I'm pretty sure he has more international 6.0s than some fan favorites like Kwan (I remember Louis had a list of 6.0s on his website eons ago).

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    Yes, he does pick and choose comps. I'll be one of the first to stick my hand up and say that. But what this article completely glosses over is WHY. He's not doing it because he's an arrogant snob (which is what she says). He's doing it because jeez, his body can't handle that many comps anymore. So he chooses the ones that are and always have been important to him - Nationals, and Euros.

    Although I agree that if someone told him about this article, he would probably have a laugh and add it to his fuel canister...
    Responding to what I bolded. Unfortunately, this is typical of Rosie. She, like others who write columns, picks "facts" that fit her viewpoint and seldom bothers with the whole story. I mean most of us here understand why he's not competing except in a very select few comps -- mostly because of his health. It also sounds very much like she tried to get Chan to snark about it but it seems to be he is trying really hard to be honest but diplomatic.

    I think we should all have a chuckle with Plushy about the article. It's not fit for printing.
    Crazy about sports!

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    I never understood why people act shocked when some fans consider Plushenko artistic, considering he received so many perfect 6.0s under the old system and excellent PCS under the new system as well. I'm pretty sure he has more international 6.0s than some fan favorites like Kwan (I remember Louis had a list of 6.0s on his website eons ago).
    Maybe because they know that judges sometimes give marks based on an athlete's name and not to the actual performance....

    (full disclosure - I am not shocked people think Plushenko is an artist - as lala said, it all depends what you think an artist should be - and I think he can be an artist in his own right in galas, as an entertainer. I just don't see it that way when it comes to his competition programs which never fit what imo makes an artist on the ice, and no amount of 6.0 or high PCs will make me change my mind On the other hand. a beautiful performance by him, regardless of what the judges will score him, could )
    Last edited by rayhaneh; 12-05-2012 at 11:23 PM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willowway View Post
    "Americans" typically refers to people who live in the U.S. There is no one who will fess up what's wrong with this country easier than me but... why do people assume that all English-speaking people are one, or even listen to each other? We're not, in this case, Canada; on a separate thread the other day, it was assumed that an article that came out of Dublin also reflected a U.S. point of view undoubtedly because it was written in English.

    Come on people, the U.S. has lots of faults and we're impossible sometimes but we're just us. We don't necessarily read Canadian papers unless we live near the border and we hold our own opinions, sometimes the same as our Canadian neighbors, often very different. I think people who presume to make generalizations about North America risk error - there are very few things are distinctly and really North American. Just like I don't think there's much that's Eastern European as each country that's in the area has a distinct take on things.

    I dare say that there are journalists in Russia who you would not want me to think represent the broad Russian point of view. Do I blame their opinions on all Russia - I would hope not.

    Maybe the opinions expressed in this article don't even represent Canada; I wouldn't presume to say they do. Maybe they just represent this one writer. Jumping to generalizations isn't usually the intelligent thing to do.
    You are right, in Europe we often make this mistake, despite we know that US and Canada are different countries. Sorry. But in skating world the two countries have similar opinion, thus easily make this mistake.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    I never understood why people act shocked when some fans consider Plushenko artistic, considering he received so many perfect 6.0s under the old system and excellent PCS under the new system as well. I'm pretty sure he has more international 6.0s than some fan favorites like Kwan (I remember Louis had a list of 6.0s on his website eons ago).
    Plush had a total of 75 6.0's; Kwan 57

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayhaneh View Post
    Maybe because they know that judges sometimes give marks based on an athlete's name and not to the actual performance....

    (full disclosure - I am not shocked people think Plushenko is an artist - as lala said, it all depends what you think an artist should be - and I think he can be an artist in his own right in galas, as an entertainer. I just don't see it that way when it comes to his competition programs which never fit what imo makes an artist on the ice, and no amount of 6.0 or high PCs will make me change my mind On the other hand. a beautiful performance by him, regardless of what the judges will score him, could )
    He got the first 6.0 at 16, he was the youngest male skater ever. And when he was 16-17 the judges also gave him many 5,8 and 5,9. And yes, he is an entertainer.
    he was 17, he beat Stojko, he won his first GPF
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xY_xuAQ1Ev0
    and he received some 6.0.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman View Post
    Plush had a total of 75 6.0's; Kwan 57
    Yes! some 6.0 are technical scores, but he can beat Kwan without them.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    He got the first 6.0 at 16, he was the youngest male skater ever. And when he was 16-17 the judges also gave him many 5,8 and 5,9. And yes, he is an entertainer.
    he was 17, he beat Stojko, he won his first GPF
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xY_xuAQ1Ev0
    and he received some 6.0.
    Thanks, great performance and really interesting video... they had to share the K&C, how awkward.

  12. #32
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    It is so classic for the level of HATE to come out between Canada and Russia. Hate hate hate. "Terrific"

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    Yes! some 6.0 are technical scores, but he can beat Kwan without them.
    Now, now .. no one beats the KWEEN at anything!!

  14. #34

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    But in skating world the two countries have similar opinion
    Actually, not true.
    Last edited by Willowway; 12-06-2012 at 01:17 AM.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    This is fiction,she and you don't know him. But who cares? The great men has haters, I learned it. I think Chan is more cocky,arrogant, and ill-mannered like Plush. After and before Vancouver I read several hateful and liar articles. But I think love of his fans -they are so many people all over the world- helped him get through the hard times.

    Plushy! I hope you know this video..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9h53_qvQjNM
    Lala,

    Thanks for posting this youtube. I remember watching Plushenko grow up during his figure skating career. That boy put his heart and soul in his skating - abandoned, passionate, 200% committed and a superb athlete. Between him and Yagudin and Abt that was a golden era for Russian men's figureskating. One thing I always enjoyed about them was that they skated like guys too (I know, I know, probably I'll get trashed for saying this and I'm not implying anything about other male skaters).

    Not to take away anything from what the present men do now - I love the artistry of Takahashi, abandon of Hanyu and the elegance of Chan but there was something unique about those Russian men.

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    Thanks, great performance and really interesting video... they had to share the K&C, how awkward.
    I think that was tradition for a while, there's a video from the 2000-2001 GPF (I think) where Plushenko and Yagudin were sitting in the kiss and cry, either side of Mishin, waiting for Plushenko's marks...and when they put him in first the first thing Yagudin did was reach over and shake his hand, and they nodded cordially at each other.

    Quote Originally Posted by skaterdelight View Post
    One thing I always enjoyed about them was that they skated like guys too (I know, I know, probably I'll get trashed for saying this and I'm not implying anything about other male skaters).
    So why mention it then? You are automatically implying something about other male skaters by saying that the Russian men "skated like guys".

    The Russian men of that era were powerful, dramatic, and very strong. That doesn't make them automatically more masculine than skaters who prefer a softer, elegant style; who display their power and strength more subtly.

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by nylynnr View Post
    You can love her or hate her, but Rosie is not one to chicken out. She has been to Afghanistan eight or nine times to report (primarily) about the treatment of women there.
    And her articles about that were only marginally better informed than her articles about skating.

    Rosie's main area of expertise is in promoting herself, not in contributing anything useful or intelligent.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sugar View Post
    http://www.thestar.com/sports/figure...season-dimanno
    The tall blond Russian, as compelling a character as any invented by Leo Tolstoy — vain, disdainful, imperious — considers himself too good to bother with the Grand Prix season whilst on a selective comeback trail aimed at the 2014 Sochi Olympics.
    This is Canadian journalism. This is Canadian Champion. Oh Canada, poor country.

  19. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glacier cat View Post
    This is Canadian journalism. This is Canadian Champion. Oh Canada, poor country.
    Yes, please pity us; that we are saddled with such a "writer".
    Crazy about sports!

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    Quote Originally Posted by professordeb View Post
    Yes, please pity us; that we are saddled with such a "writer".
    This woman is not journalist? Hope so.
    well, I was shocked when I googled about The Toronto Star. According to wikipedia, it is a "Canada's highest-circulation newspaper". I thought it's a small tabloid and kind of right-wing

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