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  1. #61
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    Knowing John, I'd be surprised if they didn't skate at Worlds

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    Comparing this to Alissa's torn labrum. She was faltering months in advance of her surgery. John was rocking his programs as recently as CoR. Now, he seems to have bounced back quickly (on the stationary bike a day after). Is it possible that his injury was far less severe and thus, he will be ice-ready much sooner? IDK about these things

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    It is the operation itself that is the greatest determinant here. According to the Mayo Clinic, many receiving this operation can expect to return to their sport within 4 to 6 months. Even if John can do that, they would not have adequate time to prepare for competition. imo

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    Wishing John a speedy recovery! Personally I don't expect to see him again this season - JMO.

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    Sorry to hear of this additional injury news this season, but glad for John he's had his injury taken care of and is maintaining his positive forward-looking view of things, which surely helps with healing.

    Best of luck to John for a full and safe recovery, and I look forward to seeing him and Caydee back on the ice when he's fully healed!

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    Quote Originally Posted by stjeaskategym View Post
    Was that just because of Belbin/Agosto being World medalists or could it be applied to any top US skater? Full recovery from surgery for a torn hip labrum can be as short as two months, so that's why I mentioned Worlds, and used the word "probably". Maybe he wouldn't make it back in time, but it would still be nice for him to have a chance.
    You read that where? Czisny had it in July and was not ready to compete at GP at the end of November. Hip surgery is much more complicated than knee surgery and the healing time is much longer. (I had labral tear repaired in July too.) Maybe if he was a dancer but as a pair skater? Doubtful.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by johndockley92 View Post
    Knowing John, I'd be surprised if they didn't skate at Worlds
    Knowing exactly what about John? No amount of will, determination, dedication or discipline can speed required healing time. I'm reminded of the expression that nine women one month pregnant do not a baby make - some things cannot be rushed.
    Last edited by BittyBug; 12-06-2012 at 04:38 PM. Reason: Typo
    "I miss footwork that has any kind of a discernible pattern. The goal of a step sequence should not be for a skater to show the same ice coverage as a Zamboni and take about as much time as an ice resurface. " ~ Zemgirl, reflecting on a pre-IJS straight line sequence

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    I'm wondering if it is healthy to go in competing at that level after such an injury. Isn't that what abruptly ended both Lipinski's and Yagudin's competitive careers?

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    Quote Originally Posted by stjeaskategym View Post
    This will be yet another example of USFS needing to update their rules to take into account injuries involving their top athletes. Because of the bad timing of this surgery, it doesn't seem like D/C could being ready for Nationals, but they'd probably be more than fine for Worlds. Granted, we could send C/S and S/K to Worlds and probably not do that badly (especially considering the field just isn't very deep in pairs), but it's certainly not a great idea to not send your clear top team if they are healthy and ready. Ugh.
    No, they won't. This surgery takes a min. of 4-6 months recovery, which does NOT include the season's worth of endurance it takes to build up a program. Perspective - Czisny has been out from June - November and still isn't ready. You can be "recovered" from the surgery and be on the ice skating, but that doesn't mean your endurance is ready for World's.

    Quote Originally Posted by aliceanne View Post
    I'm wondering if it is healthy to go in competing at that level after such an injury. Isn't that what abruptly ended both Lipinski's and Yagudin's competitive careers?
    No. Lipinski quit because she was bored of skating and wanted to be an actress. She had the surgery right at the end of her amateur career/begining of her professional career, which gives a false impression that this is why she quit amateur skating. Tara continued for four more years as a professional doing triple jumps. The hip is not why she quit.

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by leafygreens View Post
    No. Lipinski quit because she was bored of skating and wanted to be an actress. She had the surgery right at the end of her amateur career/begining of her professional career, which gives a false impression that this is why she quit amateur skating. Tara continued for four more years as a professional doing triple jumps. The hip is not why she quit.
    You may be right about why she left skating, but IIRC, she had hip surgery after several pro seasons - in 2001 or 2002.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by leafygreens View Post
    No, they won't. This surgery takes a min. of 4-6 months recovery, which does NOT include the season's worth of endurance it takes to build up a program. Perspective - Czisny has been out from June - November and still isn't ready. You can be "recovered" from the surgery and be on the ice skating, but that doesn't mean your endurance is ready for World's.



    No. Lipinski quit because she was bored of skating and wanted to be an actress. She had the surgery right at the end of her amateur career/begining of her professional career, which gives a false impression that this is why she quit amateur skating. Tara continued for four more years as a professional doing triple jumps. The hip is not why she quit.

    Tara retired from eligible skating in 1998 at the age of 15. She did not get hip surgery until she was 18. She was in pain and misdiagnosed for 3 or 4 years before finally getting the surgery. She did retire from eligible skating largely because her hip could not take it anymore. In her pro programs, IIRC, she mainly only did 3T and 3S, because that was all her hip could handle.

  12. #72
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    ^^ Yes, thanks for this chronology (did you check it somewhere). I don't remember the exact order of events myself. I do recall in recent years reports that Tara used to over-practice her jumps at the rink, which likely added to the stress her hip came under. I wonder did she get a full hip replacement or just repair? Kinda scary at such a young age if it was hip replacement. IF so, I wonder whether it lasts forever or if more surgery is needed later on in life.

    It's really inspiring to see all the stuff athletes with missing limbs are enabled to do these days with the new technologies. I wonder why the skate boot can't be revolutionized in a better way to cushion more of the impact that skaters bodies now suffer.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    You read that where? Czisny had it in July and was not ready to compete at GP at the end of November. Hip surgery is much more complicated than knee surgery and the healing time is much longer. (I had labral tear repaired in July too.) Maybe if he was a dancer but as a pair skater? Doubtful.
    http://www.ehow.com/facts_5907131_re...-surgery_.html It says pain free in 2-6 months. That is quite a wide range, which means every individual case is probably quite different depending on several factors. I would think being a very young, strong athlete receiving top-notch care from people who typical work with athletes would help tremendously. It's not like he's a sedentary 50 year old. But we also don't know the severity of the situation. If John is fully recovered by early February, he would have about a month to prepare for Worlds. Not a lot of time at all, but maybe not impossible. How quickly he can get his stamina/strength back would depend in part on how much conditioning he can do as he is recovering. If he's non-weight-bearing for a while and is very limited in the amount of cardio he can do, he'd be much weaker and more out of shape when he returns. But if he's permitted to do quite a bit of off-ice work early on, who knows.

    The press release didn't give any timetable for return, so it doesn't seem so promising. Perhaps it's still up in the air. Still, in the event that he is ready to compete in time, hopefully USFS would allow D/C to be monitored for Worlds. I still don't think Czisny's situation is necessarily indicative of what will happen for John. She has enough jumping issues with healthy hips, so getting ready for competition after a long layoff might present a lot of added challenges. I wonder if it was possible that she was capable of competing in her GP, but just didn't want to be there if she didn't feel she could skate her best.
    Last edited by stjeaskategym; 12-06-2012 at 07:06 PM.

  14. #74

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    I wish John a speedy, healthy recovery. I would hope, though, that they would not compete until he is 100% sure he can keep Caydee safe. I mean, with singles, it's just your risk but with pairs, you do have a partner to think about. I am, however, sure that John will be thinking of Caydee's safety especially during lifts and they will skate again when he is healed. Wishing them both the best.
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  15. #75

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    Wow this is stunning news. Good recovery to him, and may he only return if and when he is ready...

  16. #76
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    Earlier today John Coughlin tweeted this photo of himself on a stationary bike.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  17. #77
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    Maybe "stationary bike rehabber" can join "almost girl" in the lexicon.

  18. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    You read that where? Czisny had it in July and was not ready to compete at GP at the end of November. Hip surgery is much more complicated than knee surgery and the healing time is much longer. (I had labral tear repaired in July too.) Maybe if he was a dancer but as a pair skater? Doubtful.
    I dunno, it took me a good 8 months after knee surgery to start some sort of physical activity that wasn't PT. Granted, I'd managed to tear my ACL, partially (but almost all the way) tear my MCL and a nice meniscus tear to top it all off. I'd say how long you're out also depends on the severity of the injury.

    Also, it's possible certain jumps put more stress on your hip labrum than others, i.e. loops are a lot of hip action, but something like a 2axel is easier on the hips.

  19. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by stjeaskategym View Post
    http://www.ehow.com/facts_5907131_re...-surgery_.html It says pain free in 2-6 months. That is quite a wide range, which means every individual case is probably quite different depending on several factors. I would think being a very young, strong athlete receiving top-notch care from people who typical work with athletes would help tremendously. It's not like he's a sedentary 50 year old. But we also don't know the severity of the situation. If John is fully recovered by early February, he would have about a month to prepare for Worlds. Not a lot of time at all, but maybe not impossible. How quickly he can get his stamina/strength back would depend in part on how much conditioning he can do as he is recovering. If he's non-weight-bearing for a while and is very limited in the amount of cardio he can do, he'd be much weaker and more out of shape when he returns. But if he's permitted to do quite a bit of off-ice work early on, who knows.
    It may say pain free in 2-6 months, but it did not say in top shape ready to compete at elite level of sport where you are actually moving on a slippery surface carrying another person above your head! I had it in July and still struggle with something as simple as sit spin. While it doesn't hurt, it feels so stiff that it feels like if I was 80. He will have to work through this. On elite level that will put him in huge disadvantage.

  20. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by ioana View Post
    I dunno, it took me a good 8 months after knee surgery to start some sort of physical activity that wasn't PT. Granted, I'd managed to tear my ACL, partially (but almost all the way) tear my MCL and a nice meniscus tear to top it all off. I'd say how long you're out also depends on the severity of the injury.

    Also, it's possible certain jumps put more stress on your hip labrum than others, i.e. loops are a lot of hip action, but something like a 2axel is easier on the hips.

    When I wrote that knee surgery is easier than hip surgery, I was comparing the same types of injury. Labral tear means torn cartilage in hip, so comparable to that in knee would be torn meniscus. Three weeks after meniscus operation I was back on the ice and a few more weeks later it was like if I didn't have any surgery at all. Knee surgery is less invasive. It took me about 10 weeks to go back on the ice after the hip surgery (labral tear) and even a few months later I am still not where I was before the surgery. Labral tear surgery takes much longer, and they have to pull the hip out of the socket, so there is a chance of some more damage caused. The healing takes longer.

    Your case, Ioana, would be different, because you not only torn cartilage, you also torn two ligaments. In fact, I seem to remember that your injury is quite common with gymnasts, they have those three together and it is usually career ending. Shawn Johnson had it; it ended her comeback. She wrote that the doctors call it 'terrible triad'. This combination of knee injuries would of course be much worse than torn cartilage in hip.
    Last edited by hanca; 12-08-2012 at 08:45 PM.

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