John Coughlin Out Due to Hip Surgery

[Sylvia]

According to ISU Rule 378 (Entries ISU Championships Single & Pair Skating & Ice Dance), it's "Not more than 28" for 2 entries, so 13th and 15th would still be okay.

[figureit]

Caitlin (5'3") might be too tall for Rockne (5'9"). How about Rockne and Caydee Denney (5'0")?

Ah this is insensitive and bad form!... to suggest another partner for Caydee under Johns surgery forum? Geez...stay together teams need to stay together ....and support each other and my guess is they will come back stronger than ever! Good luck and speedy healing to John!!

[Sylvia]

I didn't take UMBS Go Blue's post seriously.

The article opens with:
""I'm doing well: as well as can be expected," the 27-year-old skater said. "I was on the stationary bike not two hours after completing the procedure and I went on it again this morning. Now, I'm on the way to the OTC (Olympic Training Center) for my first PT session there and to get the PT schedule set for the week."

Is this common so soon after such a surgery?

Best wishes on his recovery...

I was surprised to read that part, too. Coughlin is very fortunate to have top-notch facilities and medical/PT staff at the Olympic Training Center for his rehab. and recovery process, so hopefully he will follow what they say to the letter.

[Rochelle]

With 2 teams competing they could place as low as 13th and 14th and still keep the two spots (13+14=27), so I wouldn't worry about that.

From the ISU's list of best pairs total scores from this season:
http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/...13/sbtspto.htm

Looking at these senior teams:
9 174.51 Marissa CASTELLI / Simon SHNAPIR USA ISU GP NHK Trophy 2012 25.11.2012
14 163.10 Alexa SCIMECA / Chris KNIERIM USA ISU GP NHK Trophy 2012 25.11.2012
25 143.15 Tiffany VISE / Don BALDWIN USA ISU GP Rostelecom Cup 2012 10.11.2012
32 131.26 Gretchen DONLAN / Andrew SPEROFF USA ISU GP Hilton HHonors Skate America 2012 20.10.2012
36 127.33 Haven DENNEY / Brandon FRAZIER USA ISU JGP Lake Placid 2012 01.09.2012

Upfront, that's misleading though. Looking at that list, when you take out the Junior GP competitors, and those who likely won't make the cut of the world team (But no Takahashi/Tran, Sui/Han, Vartman/VanCleave, Kemp/King)... the American teams (based on the top scores so far this season) would really fall at about 8th for Marissa/Simon for top scores so far, and the second American team is in the ballpark of of 13th-15th.

It might be close, but the US should be relatively okay in securing their two Olympic spots. I'd be most concerned about a during-the-course-of-the-competition-withdraw impacting us the most in that scenario. Hope both assigned US teams stay healthy and injury free...

[figureit]

True...I just thought it was not a good "joke" and kind of insensitive to make a statement at this time...even a not serious one like that..it reminded me of the person that says something mean and then says haha JK. but obviously I am over sensitive and believe in weird stuff like energy, karma, and putting positive things into the universe at times like this..it is a really disappointing time and joking aside I know there are a lot of questions, wonderings, and worry about our USA pairs discipline and athletes...he seems to be healing so fast! Things could end up on task for Worlds at this rate..it is possible I guess.

[Sylvia]

Welcome to FSU, figureit!

[figureit]

Thanks

[figureit]

Ps. Just to mention it has been very interesting to belong to FSU it is nice there is even a Forum to discuss things with skating on such a level and learn about news and debate. It is very good.

[UMBS Go Blue]

but obviously I am over sensitive

This.

[kwanfan1818]

With 2 teams competing they could place as low as 13th and 14th and still keep the two spots (13+14=27), so I wouldnt worry about that.

One team could fail to make the FS as long as the other was Top 12: the most placement points they assign to a team that miss the FS is 16.

It will be interesting to see USFS' strategy if a skater/team that hasn't met the Worlds minimums is give a provisional spot, if the substitutes will be required to have the score to be listed, and/or if USFS will send skaters without the minimum to any other international but 4C's. The upcoming internationals with Pairs (before Worlds) are listed as:

Dec 13-16: Golden Spin (Zagrb)
Jan 3-5: 1st New Year Cup (Bratislava)
Jan 10-12: Nesquick Cup (Torun)
Feb 7-10: Bavarian Open (Oberstdorf)

[Garden Kitty]

I wish John a full and speedy recovery!

[reese]

If Donlan/Speroff could pull of 2nd at Nationals, could they be given the provisional second spot at Worlds provided they get the Worlds SP min at 4cc?

[Tammi]

The article opens with:
""I'm doing well: as well as can be expected," the 27-year-old skater said. "I was on the stationary bike not two hours after completing the procedure and I went on it again this morning. Now, I'm on the way to the OTC (Olympic Training Center) for my first PT session there and to get the PT schedule set for the week."

Is this common so soon after such a surgery?

I know a skater who had hip surgery for a torn labral a few years ago out in Vail and I remember her doing something very similar as part of rehab.

[NadineWhite]

Caitlin (5'3") might be too tall for Rockne (5'9"). How about Rockne and Caydee Denney (5'0")?

I agree, and said so on the first page. Way weirder things have happened (e.g. how Denney & Coughlin ended up together in the first place, lol, some demonizing Caydee; not me though ). I refuse to take the holier than thou miss goody two shoes position.

On that note, thank goodness FSU has over a decade long reputation of allowing all opinions, good or bad. Relatively free of the thought police, unlike some other boards/groups/cliques. Not talking about the *self appointed ones*, that can't be helped.

Anyhow, back on topic, good luck to John (& Caydee), and all the pair teams competing at Sr. Nationals ~ BRING IT ON!!!!

[maatTheViking]

Wow, that is quick back on working out! My husband had shoulder surgery (torn some ligament from MTB fall), and 2 hours after his surgery he was till drugged out of his mind and asleep on the couch. He has a very high pain threshold but was quite affected by the pain for a couple of days at the tail end of his drugs...

So I am impressed! Speedy recovery to Coughlin, after seeing him and Denny live at SKAM they may grow on me yet...

[5Ali3]

John also doesn't need to show up at a competition with a full array of triple jumps, some of which are harder on the hip than others.

John needs to show up at competition with something much more difficult and much more important than any triple jump: the ability to lift a woman over his head, safely, while moving at top speed on a slippery surface, balanced on a half of a knife blade. Moreover, he needs to be capable of doing so four minutes into a long program, which is a lot more difficult than doing it in isolation. And he needs to be capable of "saving" a lift, four minutes into a program, no matter what has gone wrong. ("Saving" a lift means anything from "no one watching notices that anything happened" to "prevent the girl from landing on her head." The latter is what I have in mind here.)

Lift mohawks require a fair amount of hip strength and stability within the joint. If you picture what happened to the strength in Czisny's hip last March, as evidenced by how her hip kept collapsing under her on the landings of jumps - now picture a lift in which the man has lost the strength in his hip, or worse - as happens with these tears, when a man loses the strength but can't feel that the strength is gone.

The article opens with:
""I'm doing well: as well as can be expected," the 27-year-old skater said. "I was on the stationary bike not two hours after completing the procedure and I went on it again this morning. Now, I'm on the way to the OTC (Olympic Training Center) for my first PT session there and to get the PT schedule set for the week."

Is this common so soon after such a surgery?

Yes, this Philippon's protocol for all patients; his rehab procedure concentrates on getting the joint moving as soon as possible to reduce inflammation and the possibility of scar tissue(?), and accelerates quickly. Thomas Byrd, the surgeon who did Czisny's surgery, uses a more conservative protocol that emphasizes rest and healing.

Hip surgery trivia: the anesthesiologist who worked with Philippon when he was developing this surgery, Tony Conte, is past chair of the Adult Skating Committee. At some Governing Council-or-another, after some skater-or-another had this surgery with Philippon, I got a breakdown of the differences in surgical technique between Byrd and Philippon. (All teasing aside, it was actually quite interesting - and I'm amazed at how many skaters have had this surgery with one surgeon or the other.)

[stjeaskategym]

John needs to show up at competition with something much more difficult and much more important than any triple jump: the ability to lift a woman over his head, safely, while moving at top speed on a slippery surface, balanced on a half of a knife blade. Moreover, he needs to be capable of doing so four minutes into a long program, which is a lot more difficult than doing it in isolation. And he needs to be capable of "saving" a lift, four minutes into a program, no matter what has gone wrong. ("Saving" a lift means anything from "no one watching notices that anything happened" to "prevent the girl from landing on her head." The latter is what I have in mind here.)

Lift mohawks require a fair amount of hip strength and stability within the joint. If you picture what happened to the strength in Czisny's hip last March, as evidenced by how her hip kept collapsing under her on the landings of jumps - now picture a lift in which the man has lost the strength in his hip, or worse - as happens with these tears, when a man loses the strength but can't feel that the strength is gone.

I certainly wasn't suggesting that Coughlin try to do programs or lifts with a still-injured, weakened hip. When you are responsible for the well-being of another skater, it's even more important to not skate with a major injury. I was referring more to the time period after full recovery when the skater is trying to get back into competitive form and the differences that might arise between a singles skater and a male pairs skater, both physically and mentally. I'm sure a skater like Czisny would expect to take many, many falls as she begins to get back into her full arsenal of jumps, which could be especially nerve-wracking with a newly repaired hip. Hard falls on your hip area are not exactly a rarity while jumping, especially when you haven't jumped in a while and aren't so consistent anyway. Czisny's technical issues are well documented.

On the other hand, a pair guy like Coughlin who returns to the ice after full recovery should certainly not be falling with any type of regularity on lifts, etc. I just think that the mental and physical hurdles could definitely be different for different skaters as they look to return to competition. Like I said before, I don't know the exact reasons behind Czisny's relatively long delay in her return, but I have a strong feeling that what she faced is as least somewhat different than what Coughlin will face. Every athlete is different.

On another note, thanks for pointing out a key difference between Coughlin and Czisny's rehabs. Interesting stuff. That could very well be a factor that impacts recovery time.

[spikydurian]

Wishing John speedy recovery.
What's wrong with this season? So many injuries.

[marysy]

Yes, this Philippon's protocol for all patients; his rehab procedure concentrates on getting the joint moving as soon as possible to reduce inflammation and the possibility of scar tissue(?), and accelerates quickly.

Yes, I remember reading about this protocol when the NHL player Paul Kariya had his hip labrum repaired a few years ago as well. Whether or not that accelerates the rehab process, I'm not sure, as I believe it took him 3-4 months after surgery to be ready to play.

Wishing John all the best in his recovery.

[paskatefan]

What sad news! Wishing John a full & speedy recovery!