Page 19 of 53 FirstFirst ... 9171819202129 ... LastLast
Results 361 to 380 of 1046
  1. #361
    From the Bloc
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    California, I wish
    Posts
    17,073
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    3302
    Quote Originally Posted by skatesindreams View Post
    No - thank you! Just reading that tells me there is enough there for a full book or at least a documentary on his early life

  2. #362
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    1,426
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I was so excited I set my alarm to wake me up at 2am Vancouver time to watch the announcement re: Richard. Woke up at 2am, and fell back asleep and woke up at 3:34am. So I missed it all but thank God for twitter!! Very excited, this is the kind of thing that only happens in movies. To think that this entire thing was driven by a few people only, and they raised the funds to start the digging, I`m very happy for them!! Most archaeology seems to be reactive and a result of something found by accident but this was set out with a purpose and it was actually achieved!! Very exciting!!

    On the other hand, it`s quite shocking to hear about the injuries to the body. They thought there were only 2 injuries to the skull but there were really 8 to the skull and 2 more to the body. Goes to show how brutal medieval war was.

  3. #363

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Two places! Atlanta suburbs and in the North Georgia Mountains
    Posts
    3,794
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    1994
    I am thrilled with this fabulous news story as well. I can't wait until they have a whole long report with all the details and a TV show too! I have long been a champion of historical characters who seemed to have been misrepresented by history because the "winners" write it. I'm a big Revwar fan with a Loyalist bent, though a citizen of the US. Richard III is another one of those characters who might not have been saints but who weren't the monsters they've been accused of being. Of course, his being discovered doesn't mean he'll get a personality makeover, but we'll see what the renewed interest in him instigates.

  4. #364
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    1,426
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    They released the facial reconstruction. It looks an awful lot like the portrait, with the nose and chin the same. But I always wonder how accurate these are, because I would think the facial reconstruction would be influenced by their belief it was Richard at the time they were doing the construction.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-21328380

  5. #365

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Driving the Han Yan Fan Van
    Posts
    8,824
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    If y'all haven't read it, The Daughter of Time is a lovely mystery novel that explores the whole "did he or didn't he?" issue wrt RIII and the nephews in the Tower.
    BARK LESS. WAG MORE.

  6. #366

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    7,340
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by LilJen View Post
    If y'all haven't read it, The Daughter of Time is a lovely mystery novel that explores the whole "did he or didn't he?" issue wrt RIII and the nephews in the Tower.
    Elizabeth Peters's "Murders of Richard III" is another good one.

  7. #367

    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    My old Kentucky home, far away
    Age
    36
    Posts
    4,340
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    3417
    Jenny, I don't know if you would be interested in watching documentaries on Henry VIII, but I've found several on youtube, that are British, and seemed to have been produced around 2009 to mark the 500th anniversary of Henry VIII becoming king. One is a David Starkey documentary, and a decent portion of it deals with Henry's childhood, and there's another one called Henry VIII: Patron or Plunderer and the beginning of it also deals with his childhood. I'll see if I can search for the youtube links later. I know they're pretty easy to find on my account.
    'Life's hard. It's even harder when you're stupid.'--John Wayne

  8. #368
    Corgi Wrangler
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Not Wearing Enough Sparkles
    Posts
    6,334
    vCash
    510
    Rep Power
    2354
    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    I don't know much about Henry VII, but one of the things I always thought was interesting was that he was descended from the originally illegitimate, later legitimated Beaufort line - the great-grandson of John Beaufort, eldest of the four children born to the Duke of Lancaster and his then-mistress Katherine Swynford. I've only read the Anya Seton novelization about them, but I know there are some more serious books that I should check out. The Beauforts and their descendants were not supposed to inherit at all; Henry IV had tried to ensure that.

    I'll admit that what little 15th century history I know is mostly from reading Dorothy Dunnett
    Try the book "Winter King"--it's a little slow going for "pop" history (it's marketed as such but it's not what I'd call an easy read like "John Adams", for example, which is very scholarly but flows like a novel) but it goes into a lot o depth especially about the later years of Henry VII's reign (and includes a handy family tree at the start. It...could use some more branches, actually.)

  9. #369
    recovering Oly-holic
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    In the frozen, snowy north
    Posts
    1,237
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    2042
    Quote Originally Posted by LilJen View Post
    If y'all haven't read it, The Daughter of Time is a lovely mystery novel that explores the whole "did he or didn't he?" issue wrt RIII and the nephews in the Tower.
    This .. Josephine Tey was a fabulous writer.

  10. #370

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Sending positive thoughts to Mirai..
    Posts
    3,684
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    7566
    Quote Originally Posted by Guinevere View Post
    They released the facial reconstruction. It looks an awful lot like the portrait, with the nose and chin the same. But I always wonder how accurate these are, because I would think the facial reconstruction would be influenced by their belief it was Richard at the time they were doing the construction.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-21328380
    As I understand it there was some computer work done to approximate depth of muscles, etc. Perhaps that prevented the artists from being influenced by their knowledge of Richard's portraits (none contemporary I believe).

    Even the skull has a chin similar to the portraits. I believe it is a faithful rendering of the Plantagenet King. He was quite handsome imo.

    I still believe he had his little nephews, Edward V and Richard, Duke of York murdered though. They disappeared under his 'care'. He had his brother Edward IV marriage declared illegitimate and had his young nephews declard bastards. He wanted that crown-and he got it. But not for long.

    Now I wish they could identify the Little Princes. The bones in the urn at Westminster may be theirs-or not. I also wish they'd try and identify the remainds at Saint Peter Ad Vincula. It would be amazing if they could find the remains of Henry VIII's murdered queens Anne Boleyn and Katherine Howard, as well as so many of his victims. I also have a fondness for Lady Jane Grey and Lord Guildford Dudley. I wish their remains could be identified as well. With the advances in DNA it is entirely possible. Some of the parents of the victims are buried in elaborate tombs. The remains of the mothers especially might provide enough DNA to match them to their children. Ah well. It's a long-held fantasy of mine.

    I love facial reconstructions of ancient figures. I'd love to see one done of all the above mentioned persons as well as Mary I, Elizabeth I, and Edward VI. Highly unlikely permission would ever be granted for such a task but it's fun to speculate!

    I hope in his honor Richard is re-buried with the Catholic rites of his day - in the Latin language! Some articles mentioned that both an Anglican and Roman Catholic priest kept vigil by his remains these past few days. Perhaps they could do an ecumenical memorial service? I hope they place a replica coronet (again from his day) on his coffin too.
    Last edited by Sasha'sSpins; 02-05-2013 at 03:26 AM.
    Congrats to my ♥Baroque Rock Princess Adelina♥Meryl&Charlie♥Tatiana&Maxim♥!Team ♥Mirai♥Adam♥Julia♥

  11. #371
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Sending my thoughts and prayers to the people of Elliott Lake :(
    Age
    41
    Posts
    5,283
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    There are a couple of Canadian angles to this story for those interested - http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle8158525/
    Daily Planet on Discovery Canada also led w/the Announcement, but went farther in depth w/the actual science behind how this all worked, and what needed to be done, in order to beyond a doubt prove it was Richard III. Really fascinating.

    I wonder if renewed interest in Richard III (aside from the core group who's always been interested ) will lead to greater interest in Henry VII. As we well know, all the historic attention is on his son and granddaughter, when in fact Henry VII's reign was a very interesting time, and his impact continues to be felt today. Back when I was reading a lot about the Tudor period, I couldn't find anything readable (ie not decades old dry scholarly works) on his life and reign, and for that matter, much on Henry VIII before he became king (and even there, the first decade of his reign usually merits only a few paragraphs while writers race to get to the juicy parts).

    I would love to see a new, well researched bio on Henry VII.
    Funny you should mention that, but I'll get to that a bit further down the post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    I'll admit that what little 15th century history I know is mostly from reading Dorothy Dunnett
    Hey, if that's what sparked your interest in to learning more about the actual history behind the novels, then AFAIC....Awesome!! To me, I don't care how you get to any interest/passion when it comes to any period of History or whatever you might be passionate about.

    It was my early facisnation in Mary, Queen of Scots that got me to give Embroidery a try about 30 years ago and all these years on, I'm grateful to Queen Mary and the pictures of her increadable pieces of needlework for inspiring me to give it a shot and ask my Mom if she'd teach me.

    You never know where that spark comes from. So long as it comes and you're interested in learning more, I'm always welcoming of someone who is on that kind of a quest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Indeed. One would think that in the endless writings about Henry VIII, it would be interesting to do a proper exploration of his childhood. The influence of his father (which I've barely seen written about) and his mother (which seems limited to insisting that his daughter by Anne was named for her), and the effect of his brother's early death for starters (the latter limited to some feeling of obligation to marry Katherine, but I've seen little about his actual relationship with his brother). Then there's the oddity of being raised as the Duke of York, not king, which surely would have some effect on his character and the way he eventually reigned. We know why he had the Duke of Buckingham executed, but by Henry VIII's reign, the spectre of pretenders to the throne is treated almost as a joke in the books and documentaries I've seen, but at the time, it was a really big deal that would have been a threat throughout his reign and indeed throughout the Tudor period. Finally, the thing I'd love to hear more about are the other adults who influenced Henry VIII as a youth, and his childhood friends. We know they were important because they all ended up in his court (notably the Duke of Suffolk), but I haven't seen anything that really examines who was around Henry as a child, and how they influenced him.

    For Henry VII, I pretty much need the whole story All I know are little bits and pieces - all tantalizingly interesting!

    If anyone knows of any good sources, please do share
    Quote Originally Posted by ChelleC View Post
    Jenny, I don't know if you would be interested in watching documentaries on Henry VIII, but I've found several on youtube, that are British, and seemed to have been produced around 2009 to mark the 500th anniversary of Henry VIII becoming king. One is a David Starkey documentary, and a decent portion of it deals with Henry's childhood, and there's another one called Henry VIII: Patron or Plunderer and the beginning of it also deals with his childhood. I'll see if I can search for the youtube links later. I know they're pretty easy to find on my account.
    I haven't come across the second Documentary Chelle mentions up above, but I have seen the Starkey one and the first episode and a good portion of the second does go very in-depth into Henry's childhood, being raised among his sisters and Mother, while Arthur was off learning to be PoW and future King, how he was created DoY due to the entire Warbeck Pretender to the Throne who was saying he was the DoY/Prince of the Tower thing and since there could only be *one* DoY....

    Starkey also goes rather indepth into Henry's Installation Ceremony to the Order of the Bath/Knight of the Bath *and* how by doing rather painstaking analysis shows how it's apparently Katherine of York who taught Henry his first lessons, along w/his sisters, as there are portions of their handwriting that are too alike to be explained in any other manner.

    It really is excellent all around and I highly recommend it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guinevere View Post
    I was so excited I set my alarm to wake me up at 2am Vancouver time to watch the announcement re: Richard. Woke up at 2am, and fell back asleep and woke up at 3:34am. So I missed it all but thank God for twitter!! Very excited, this is the kind of thing that only happens in movies. To think that this entire thing was driven by a few people only, and they raised the funds to start the digging, I`m very happy for them!! Most archaeology seems to be reactive and a result of something found by accident but this was set out with a purpose and it was actually achieved!! Very exciting!!

    On the other hand, it`s quite shocking to hear about the injuries to the body. They thought there were only 2 injuries to the skull but there were really 8 to the skull and 2 more to the body. Goes to show how brutal medieval war was.
    Oh no!!! And you've been looking so forward to today and the hope it really was Richard III too. I'm sorry that happened Guinevere. Due to Dad having to have a blocked Cathedar finally removed tomorrow, (*Finally*!! The stupid thing never did work for him to have Dialysis the other way by using it, but how long has it been left in there? Since October!!! Grrrrr!!!!) and in turn having his Dialysis changed to 7am, which considering showers and everything...I was up at 4:30am because we were able to work it for a neighbour to get them that far, and went in for my Monthly Blood Work. Anyway....I took my iPod Touch into the bathroom w/me and kept checking both the CBC and The Royal Forums on and off while getting ready after the shower. Wasn't until just a few minutes before we left the Official Word hit the News sites and I was cheering in our little porch.

    On Daily Planet they were saying there were also evidence of far more strikes/gouges in various bones of both the ribs and vertebrae that could have only been made by a sword being thrust into a body w/a great deal of force behind it. That to me proves they basically butchered the poor man while he was either dying or dead not long after. Not much else to say about that other than....

    From Sasha's Spins...

    Now I wish they could identify the Little Princes. The bones in the urn at Westminster may be theirs-or not. I also wish they'd try and identify the remainds at Saint Peter Ad Vincula. It would be amazing if they could find the remains of Henry VIII's murdered queens Anne Boleyn and Katherine Howard, as well as so many of his victims. I also have a fondness for Lady Jane Grey and Lord Guildford Dudley. I wish their remains could be identified as well. With the advances in DNA it is entirely possible. Some of the parents of the victims are buried in elaborate tombs. The remains of the mothers especially might provide enough DNA to match them to their children. Ah well. It's a long-held fantasy of mine.
    Well...W/Anne and Katherine, it could be easily done. Actually, maybe easier for Anne come to think of it. Between the Howards being the female line for Anne's DNA thanks to her Mother Elizabeth and the descendants of Mary Boleyn that are out there thanks to Mary's daughter Catherine Carey and her husband's huge Family....It could be done for Anne easily I'd think.

    BTW, one of Mary's distant Descendants? She just happens to be carrying the future King or Queen of the United Kingdom and Commonwealth at the moment. I can never remember exactly how, I know it's through one of Catherine's children. I do recall that.

    So there's one person available for a DNA swabbing. If this was ever to be done that is.

    I love facial reconstructions of ancient figures. I'd love to see one done of all the above mentioned persons as well as Mary I, Elizabeth I, and Edward VI. Highly unlikely permission would ever be granted for such a task but it's fun to speculate!
    Isn't it though?

    I hope in his honor Richard is re-buried with the Catholic rites of his day - in the Latin language! Some articles mentioned that both an Anglican and Roman Catholic priest kept vigil by his remains these past few days. Perhaps they could do an ecumenical memorial service? I hope they place a replica coronet (again from his day) on his coffin too.
    While I agree he should be re interred in the Catholic faith he was a Member of, I think it should be done in both Latin and English. Latin as a sign of respect to His Late Majesty and also English as well to keep it accessible to those of us of today.

    I would think not only his Coronet would be on his coffin, but his Royal Standard would also be covering it too. I think that's proper protocol both back then and today, isn't it?

    And on a different topic....If you haven't read Sarah Bradford's excellent biography The Reluctant King : The Life and Reign of George VI ever before, then find it. You won't be disappointed and I haven't been reading it so much as devouring it. It truly has lived up to the hype and then some.

    However, now w/what I've learned in this book and combine that w/the Files that have been Declassified the last 20 years or so and...How the Hell did Edward VIII/Duke of Windsor *not* get slapped w/Treason charges for his actions during the early years of WWII? And I'm not just talking about he and Wallis being "sympathetic" to the Nazi cause either. There is correspondence in these files that show Edward/DoW was active in putting forth the idea that when Britain fell...

    When, not if, but when.

    ...considering he was the former King and knew who could be trusted and who couldn't, to be allowed to be set up as "The President of the British Republic" in the future.

    Now....maybe I've watched one too many episodes of The Tudors or have read one too many books on Royal History of the Medieval era, but...That to me screams at the very least Sedition Against the British Govt and at the very most Treason.

    Yeah, I know they'r basically the same, but I'm also running on steam here...Anyway, I've just finished the chapters on Their Majesties' Historic State Visit to Canada and the US and they come back home to the World on the brink of World War once again. I am not looking forward to the part when Prince George, the Duke of Kent was killed in that plane crash in Scotland at all, as Bradford has done such a great job of pulling you into the World of George VI and his beloved Elizabeth, you feel like you're there w/them seeing it all first hand.

    Anyway....Get this book if you haven't read it!!! A must have for any Royal Library.

  12. #372
    Liberal Furry
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Packing for REAL London!
    Posts
    2,274
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    2163
    I recently read this book http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011...as-penn-review , which is the first real bio I've come across about Henry VII and his times. Like you I've read scores of book about Henry Vlll and Elizabeth, but this is the first more recent book about his father that I've come across. I can recommend it, although it's not a "fluffy" read.

    Missed the post above that also recommended this book- I guess I'll second it!



    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    There are a couple of Canadian angles to this story for those interested - http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle8158525/

    I wonder if renewed interest in Richard III (aside from the core group who's always been interested ) will lead to greater interest in Henry VII. As we well know, all the historic attention is on his son and granddaughter, when in fact Henry VII's reign was a very interesting time, and his impact continues to be felt today. Back when I was reading a lot about the Tudor period, I couldn't find anything readable (ie not decades old dry scholarly works) on his life and reign, and for that matter, much on Henry VIII before he became king (and even there, the first decade of his reign usually merits only a few paragraphs while writers race to get to the juicy parts).

    I would love to see a new, well researched bio on Henry VII.
    Last edited by cygnus; 02-05-2013 at 05:42 AM. Reason: adding comment
    I know. But I do not approve. And I am not resigned.
    (Edna St Vincent Millay)

  13. #373

    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI USA
    Age
    43
    Posts
    8,788
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    2672
    I just read about the discovery of Richard III's skeleton. Very interesting and I have to say, Richard was not bad looking.
    "“My bronze feels like gold,” said the bronze medalist Carolina Kostner

  14. #374

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    2,131
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    1775
    With the amount of scoliosis shown in Richard's skeleton, wouldn't he have been in significant pain? Would it impact his ability to sit on a horse, fight in armor etc?

  15. #375

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    12,857
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    15965
    Quote Originally Posted by ChelleC View Post
    Jenny, I don't know if you would be interested in watching documentaries on Henry VIII, but I've found several on youtube, that are British, and seemed to have been produced around 2009 to mark the 500th anniversary of Henry VIII becoming king. One is a David Starkey documentary, and a decent portion of it deals with Henry's childhood, and there's another one called Henry VIII: Patron or Plunderer and the beginning of it also deals with his childhood. I'll see if I can search for the youtube links later. I know they're pretty easy to find on my account.
    I found the links:

    Henry VIII - The Mind of a Tyrant
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D66XIR-k0yc

    I'm looking forward to watching this, as I'd not seen it in the US.

    ETA: I also grew up reading the historical novels by Dorothy Dunnett.
    Last edited by skatesindreams; 02-05-2013 at 02:29 PM.

  16. #376
    From the Bloc
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    California, I wish
    Posts
    17,073
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    3302
    Quote Originally Posted by ChelleC View Post
    Jenny, I don't know if you would be interested in watching documentaries on Henry VIII, but I've found several on youtube, that are British, and seemed to have been produced around 2009 to mark the 500th anniversary of Henry VIII becoming king. One is a David Starkey documentary, and a decent portion of it deals with Henry's childhood, and there's another one called Henry VIII: Patron or Plunderer and the beginning of it also deals with his childhood. I'll see if I can search for the youtube links later. I know they're pretty easy to find on my account.
    I'll have a look around. After our discussion here yesterday, I went to my Tudor library (yeah, I have a lot ) and found Sisters to the King, which I never read. The early part of the book has quite a bit - so far mostly pageants and descriptions from letters written by foreign visitors (which is often the case) but it has a light tone and I'm enjoying it so far.

    Interestingly, she mentions working closely with Starkey and not wanting to overlap his research, so perhaps he was working on that documentary?

    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    Try the book "Winter King"--it's a little slow going for "pop" history (it's marketed as such but it's not what I'd call an easy read like "John Adams", for example, which is very scholarly but flows like a novel) but it goes into a lot o depth especially about the later years of Henry VII's reign (and includes a handy family tree at the start. It...could use some more branches, actually.)
    THANK YOU. Looks like that one came out a couple of years after my Tudor obsession, so I missed it. It is in my amazon cart now

    The review mentions another book about Perkin Warbeck by Ann Wroe, which seems to go by several titles. It's an excellent, well researched, well written book that covers the period very well, and in particular offers a broader view of what was happening throughout the rest of Europe. I have it somewhere - we moved a few months ago and I confess there are still a dozen boxes of books in the basement .

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasha'sSpins View Post
    With the advances in DNA it is entirely possible.
    The issue of course is that one can confirm a yes with DNA, but not necessarily a no. History is riddled with illegitimate children and questionable parenthood, so for example had there not been a match with Richard III, it wouldn't have meant it wasn't him - instead it could have meant that there was a break in the family tree somewhere.

    The Queen has avoided DNA tests on members of the Royal Family for this very reason it is believed - because a few mismatches and many of the royal houses of Europe could come crumbling down. I remember seeing a chart someone had done about hemophilia among royals in Europe (ETA just googled - there are several out there if you want to check this further), which apparently follows a pretty specific pattern that does not match up with the family trees, suggesting that someone in history was lying I think one of the larger implications was the parentage of Queen Victoria or one of her parents, and given that her living descendants hold titles all over Europe today, you can imagine the mess if the hereditary lines are disputed!

    Quote Originally Posted by AragornElessar View Post

    Starkey also goes rather indepth into Henry's Installation Ceremony to the Order of the Bath/Knight of the Bath *and* how by doing rather painstaking analysis shows how it's apparently Katherine of York who taught Henry his first lessons, along w/his sisters, as there are portions of their handwriting that are too alike to be explained in any other manner.
    Indeed I just read about that in Sisters of the King last night, and as I said she says she studied with Starkey so no surprise they are on the same page as that point. She says the pageants for Henry becoming Duke of York (at age 3!) were bigger than when Arthur was installed as Prince of Wales, so that tells us there was another agenda in play.

    Well...W/Anne and Katherine, it could be easily done. Actually, maybe easier for Anne come to think of it. Between the Howards being the female line for Anne's DNA thanks to her Mother Elizabeth and the descendants of Mary Boleyn that are out there thanks to Mary's daughter Catherine Carey and her husband's huge Family....It could be done for Anne easily I'd think.

    BTW, one of Mary's distant Descendants? She just happens to be carrying the future King or Queen of the United Kingdom and Commonwealth at the moment. I can never remember exactly how, I know it's through one of Catherine's children. I do recall that.
    Indeed, the Duchess of Cambridge is descendent of Catherine Carey, one of Mary Boleyn's children. Even thought the risk to the monarchy is much smaller, I somehow don't think anyone wants the future Queen of England's DNA flying around though.

    And of course the fun part is that some believe that Catherine is actually Henry's child, so how great would that be? Imagine if Kate has a claim to the Tudor throne?? I know I know, but it's a fun thought. And anyway, from what I've read, the general consensus is that Mary's son Henry is very likely Henry's, but Catherine is more likely the child of William Carey.

    Quote Originally Posted by JJH View Post
    With the amount of scoliosis shown in Richard's skeleton, wouldn't he have been in significant pain? Would it impact his ability to sit on a horse, fight in armor etc?
    I know I found that shocking too! I thought surely the skeleton is crumpled a bit or something, because how on earth could a person walk with that spine, let alone go into battle??

    I'm sure there will be further medical analysis now that it's been confirmed it's him, and I will be watching for it.

  17. #377
    Corgi Wrangler
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Not Wearing Enough Sparkles
    Posts
    6,334
    vCash
    510
    Rep Power
    2354
    Quote Originally Posted by Sasha'sSpins View Post

    Now I wish they could identify the Little Princes. The bones in the urn at Westminster may be theirs-or not. I also wish they'd try and identify the remainds at Saint Peter Ad Vincula. It would be amazing if they could find the remains of Henry VIII's murdered queens Anne Boleyn and Katherine Howard, as well as so many of his victims. I also have a fondness for Lady Jane Grey and Lord Guildford Dudley. I wish their remains could be identified as well. With the advances in DNA it is entirely possible. Some of the parents of the victims are buried in elaborate tombs. The remains of the mothers especially might provide enough DNA to match them to their children. Ah well. It's a long-held fantasy of mine.
    I wouldn't call Katherine Howard murdered. Unlike Anne Boylen, she really DID commit adultery, that really WAS high treason...unless she was a total moron, she should have known what would happen. Anne Boylen almost certainly wasn't guilty of anything she was charged with, Katherine Howard almost certainly was. And I wasn't aware the burial sites for them were particular secrets, they're on the Tower grounds, are they not? As are St John Fisher and St. Thomas More, at least in part (though I think they were buried more secretly to avoid relic hunters--More at least wasn't officially canonized for a while but that didn't used to be a big deal for the faithful.)

    As for a funeral it would only be appropriate for King Richard to have a Catholic mass (they could not, as far as I understand, use the exact form, but the Latin mass is still valid and performed and one would think they'd use that and it's generally encouraged. The Liturgy of the Word is in English or whatever the local native language is, most of the Liturgy of the Eucharist, which is more important, is in Latin. It really doesn't matter if non-Catholics can't understand it as they can't legitimately participate in the Eucharist anyway, Catholics either should understand, or they can tell what's going on by context. But they can't use the one contemporary to Richard, it's no longer the correct form.)

  18. #378

    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Victoria BC
    Age
    70
    Posts
    2,971
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by LilJen View Post
    If y'all haven't read it, The Daughter of Time is a lovely mystery novel that explores the whole "did he or didn't he?" issue wrt RIII and the nephews in the Tower.
    A great read by Josephine Tey. One of my "keepers" when we downsized.

  19. #379
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    382
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    The official reports seem to say that one shoulder would have been higher than the other, and that's all. The photo seems to be misleading.

  20. #380
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Sending my thoughts and prayers to the people of Elliott Lake :(
    Age
    41
    Posts
    5,283
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    61 years ago today in Great Britain, a phrase was heard for the first time in a very, very long time....

    The King is Dead. Long live the Queen.

    YouTube ~ The Death of King George VI

    God Save Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II!!!

    ETA ~ YouTube ~ Princess Elizabeth proclaimed Queen
    Last edited by AragornElessar; 02-06-2013 at 10:17 AM.

Page 19 of 53 FirstFirst ... 9171819202129 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •