From Russia With Love - Winter 2012/13

[pinky166]

Yes, but there are always exceptions. And Tuk has the perfect technic. Gracy? I think she is strong but she does not need to lose weight.

I don't think either of them have to lose weight, I was just pointing them out as examples. Sure, Yuna and Mao are very skinny and that works for their jumps, but other skaters can do well with a more powerful and muscular physique. Gracie and Liza are two examples but also Ashley, Mae Berenice, Kaetlyn Osmond, Angela Wang. These girls are all in wonderful physical condition and very strong jumpers so I don't think it is fair to say being thinner helps you jump better, I would think for the girls I just mentioned, being thinner might actually HURT their jumps due to their natural builds and frame sizes, and also the way they jump, relying on power, speed, and strength to get the triples out rather than quick rotation alone. Alena has always had a more muscular build like the ladies I just mentioned and not like Yuna, Mao, Zijun, so for her, she is probably going to jump best when she is strong and healthy and eating properly - even if that means she weighs 5 or 10 lbs more than she does currently.

[Cherub721]

I don't remember Leonova's ever saying anything about needing to work to stay slim. Rather, what she says in her latest blog entry is:
...

I think she thinks she's taking care of herself, but I don't she is looking at things in the same way that you are.

Do you have any theory what her motivation is?

[Vagabond]

Do you have any theory what her motivation is?

Beyond what I said in Post #991?

This is conjecture, but here goes:

(1) Young people who don't feel they can control other things in their life sometimes feel that the one thing they can control is food.
(2) Food is the hardest part of a foreign culture to avoid. She can spend her days training, but she has to eat something. By limiting herself to Starbucks breakfasts and green apples, she is making the minimum concession to the fact she is living in Connecticut.

I have to say that I was originally and when I read what she said her blog posts and recent interview about North American food, but now that I think about it, I am more and .

[antmanb]

That is NOT what I meant!! I meant simply that, gone are the days of those kind of moves! Plushenko never has used anything of that nature-I simply said it would be amazing to see him DO ONE..not that he ever HAD. Holy Mother of God....

Maybe you should stop banging your head against those walls it may assist your understanding The days of those moves are gone because the days of anyone doing a single axel in a competitive programme are gone and went in the 80s. Once figures were gone and free skating was king we never saw skaters do them in competitive programmes so again I would say it's got nothing to do with COP.

I said ROBIN COUSINS had the most amazing stag axel I'd ever seen..not Plushenko! That whole post was NOT about Plushenko...
there were other skaters there who will never have tried one. And I can honestly say that I believe that COP prevents skaters now from ever WANTING to do them, or being able to feasibly add them to their programs because of the negative GOE they would get for the single jump, and the lack of points, even if it is sweeping and gorgeous...That move has effectively been eliminated by CoP. That's all I was trying to say. And that there are many of todays skaters that would look quite fantastic executing that move-whether they have done so in the past, or not. Gachinski is definitely one of them..

And the bolded statement simply shows how clueless you are about the judging system. Have you even read the rules? Why would a skater get negative GOE for completing a single jump? Skaters don't get negative GOE on a jump unless there is a problem in the quality of the jump. The base value would be the base value for a single axel. The modified air position (for a tuck axel which I think is the jump you are discussing) would likely get positive GOE, and using the example of Robin Cousins back in the day I'm certain the speed and flow into and out of the jump coupled with the tuck would likely get him +2 or +3 in GOE, but only on the base value of a single axel.

And while it is almost certain that a skater at the senior level is not likely to ever intentionally try a tuck axel in competition because of the lack of points, I would hardly say the current judging system is any different to 6.0 in the 15 years prior to its implementation as i cannot recall any skater in the 90s including a tuck axel in their programme.

[Triple Axel]

Uh...never mind..

[Triple Axel]

Maybe you should stop banging your head against those walls it may assist your understanding The days of those moves are gone because the days of anyone doing a single axel in a competitive programme are gone and went in the 80s. Once figures were gone and free skating was king we never saw skaters do them in competitive programmes so again I would say it's got nothing to do with COP.

And the bolded statement simply shows how clueless you are about the judging system. Have you even read the rules? Why would a skater get negative GOE for completing a single jump? Skaters don't get negative GOE on a jump unless there is a problem in the quality of the jump. The base value would be the base value for a single axel. The modified air position (for a tuck axel which I think is the jump you are discussing) would likely get positive GOE, and using the example of Robin Cousins back in the day I'm certain the speed and flow into and out of the jump coupled with the tuck would likely get him +2 or +3 in GOE, but only on the base value of a single axel.

And while it is almost certain that a skater at the senior level is not likely to ever intentionally try a tuck axel in competition because of the lack of points, I would hardly say the current judging system is any different to 6.0 in the 15 years prior to its implementation as i cannot recall any skater in the 90s including a tuck axel in their programme.

My cognition and level of understanding are perfectly intact, thank you. Perhaps I am 'clueless' about the judging system, as I have not studied in depth the technical committee manual on judging in the post 6.0 world, but I strongly believe that I've got the most important things about this abhorrnet piece of crap down pat. You can dispute my facts, argue the finer points of the sport, and I'll accept that as 'education'...but please do not impune my honor by using the word 'clueless'. This is NOT a pissing contest, and I refuse to particilpate in one, thank you. I am NOT one of those people who comes on this board to belittle and disrespect others. it's NOT what you say..it's purely the way you say it. Come across as intellegent, and we can seriously discuss this-I would LOVE to pick your brain for the knowledge inside related to skating and the COP. Come across as a thug, and...well, I THINK you get it. I am going to refrain from further comment on this particular statement of yours. Case closed.

And all I know about 'the system' (COP) is that, IMHO (and somehow I don't think I'm alone here) it has ripped the artistry from a sport I've loved since I was a child!! The manic footwork just isn't appealing anymore, with skaters trying so hard to cram a week into an afternoon that they always look to be one three turn from a fall! And many of them DO fall...and are rewarded with ridiculously high scores for it!! Sorry, but NO fall (no matter how many you manage to 'include' in your program) is very artistic (I supposed that is what the PCS was SUPPOSED to replace, the old 'artistic impression' score, or it was supposed to have absorbed that element of judging..... I think I may be right here..How can you tank three jumps in your program and WIN..on the basis of footwork, spins and those dreaded 'transitions', when you cannot even complete the most basic elements of competitive Figure Skating..edge control ALL the time, (HEY--how about STANDING UP??)and yes, the JUMPS...Sure, footwork is important and spins are as well...but Lord, doesn't anyone else believe that jumps should be executed completely, cleanly with no crash landing, and should be scored as a single element, not a collection of parts?? They used to say "It's all about the jumps", now, it's more like "Who needs to know how to LAND a jump? We get enough points for just trying it, even if we zamboni in the end..." The World and Olympic Champions should be able to land their jumps cleanly AND perform the other, less 'athletic' elements. They should be able to skate CLEAN.

And we won't even GO there about the differences between the old 6.0 and the inherent potential for corruption built into the COP system!! Bias is still there, as rampant as ever, only NOW it is cloaked in anonymity!! Who were the 2 judges that scored Plushenko's SP in Vancouver at #22 and #23?? We aren't allowed to know, and neither was Plushenko, who the perpetrator of such rogue scores were!! And a COMPUTER drops a THIRD, random score after the highest and lowest are dropped?? WTF is that shit!! So, the computer drops one of Plusheko's higher scores, and drops one at the lower end of Lysacek's scores (they are RANDOMLY chosen by the computer, after all )(not that this actually happened, but it is VERY possible), and Plushenko loses by a whisker, when in reality, the two judges in question should have been drawn and quartered for such a huge discrepancy from the majority scores. But..HEY..we cannot punish this behavior because...well, because, actually..WE DON'T KNOW WHO THIS JUDGE IS!! Nor do we want any skaters to find out!! The judging in the USA does NOT use this feature of the COP..thank GOD we know who the judges who deliberately manipulate skaters scores are...not that the bias is not still buried in the GOE scores... This system truly needs revision, and it should be based on accountability..the accountability of the judges, the coaches, and the skaters themselves.

Here's your quote:"And while it is almost certain that a skater at the senior level is not likely to ever intentionally try a tuck axel in competition because of the lack of points, I would hardly say the current judging system is any different to 6.0 in the 15 years prior to its implementation as i cannot recall any skater in the 90s including a tuck axel in their programme"

Nah. Surya Bonaly did a backflip, but no, she did NOT do a...tuck axel.. That was at the Nagano Olympics in 1998 when she threw in the backflip to make a statement-during her Olympic LP. WELL after the demise of the 'school figures', and well after the rise of the free program as Czar.. And you are DEAD right about no skater even attempting any of the moves as discussed earlier..because they KNOW there aren't enough points in them...I THINK that was the original point I was trying to make..Beauty and grace went the way of the dinosaur in favor of manic, ADHD programs. I just MISS it is all..and truly wish I DID understand this system, since it is obvious that we're stuck with it..

[julieann]

And all I know about 'the system' (COP) is that, IMHO (and somehow I don't think I'm alone here) it has ripped the artistry from a sport I've loved since I was a child!!

There were plenty of boring programs in the 6.0 era, maybe you just don't remember them. There are also many beautiful and artistic program after the death of 6.0; you either haven't seen them or recognized them for how great they are due to your unyielding hatred for the scoring system.

[casken]

And the bolded statement simply shows how clueless you are about the judging system. Have you even read the rules? Why would a skater get negative GOE for completing a single jump? Skaters don't get negative GOE on a jump unless there is a problem in the quality of the jump.

That statement simply shows how clueless you are about judging. Have you even looked at a protocol? The judges give -GOE to cleanly completed single jumps all the time.

[Triple Axel]

There were plenty of boring programs in the 6.0 era, maybe you just don't remember them. There are also many beautiful and artistic program after the death of 6.0; you either haven't seen them or recognized them for how great they are due to your unyielding hatred for the scoring system.

Julieann
I have seen some very inspiring and artistic programs since the demise of the 6.0 system. Unfortunately, they are not scored very highly at most senior internationals. I don't have to like the scoring system to appreciate good skating! I know how important the figures used to be in demonstrating basic skating skills, edge control, and awareness of where a skater is at any given moment in their program. But I certainly took NO joy in watching that phase of the competition, that's for certain. I find that most of the more 'boring' programs in the 6.0 system were the ladies programs, but there were some horridly boring men's programs as well. And skaters now have to skate like they're skating for their lives to get in as many elements as they can in that program. I do NOT fault the skaters for this one. They have no choice. I have accepted this system, as it's the only choice I have if I want to continue to follow this sport. I don't have to like a system that rewards the inability to finish your program on your feet, but I find my joy in between the falls and the overinflation of scores. I still find beauty in the negative spaces between the moments of mania. Those rare and truly inspiring moments that bring together everything that is beautiful in this sport into clear focus. There are many truly overrated skaters out there today..and some underdogs who show a determination to place some grace and beauty in their programs. No one comes to a competition to lose. And there ARE a few skaters in the current crop that I truly enjoy watching-usually those that are kind of quirky, and usually are NOT the judges favourites. My 'hatred' of the system comes from a basic lack of understanding HOW and WHY things are scored as they currently are. It is not 'unyeilding'. I am a very open minded and flexible human being, capable of adapting and adjusting. And I will someday understand this system to the point where I can truly enjoy watching the World or Olympic champion receiving his Gold medal after three falls and a hand-down in his free skate. Just not yet.

[Triple Axel]

That statement simply shows how clueless you are about judging. Have you even looked at a protocol? The judges give -GOE to cleanly completed single jumps all the time.

You, my friend, are my new HERO!! I thought I had read that somewhere...