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  1. #641

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    Leonova dumped herself with her performances, sadly.

    It's as though all her confidence came from knowing she would have the full support of her federation at international competitions. Once this was siphoned off to Sotnikova and Tuk, she decided all was lost and let it all go.

    That's how it seems to me. I really did enjoy the energy and flair she brought to her performances, and the way she would attempt 7 triples somethings, even if she flutzed.

    Good bye to the pirate, hello to wonder babies.
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  2. #642
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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    But it was a huge diss and it was dumping. It's the clearest example of dumping in years and she's not going to worlds either. I think that's settled.
    Nope. In your head maybe. To most people it seems only fair that a skater who hasn't had a single good competition so far this season isn't sent to Euros.

    If Leonova performs well at the Russian Cup and Gosviani doesn't, Leonova will surely get sent to Worlds.

  3. #643
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    His programs are totally empty and don't even have a semblance of style. He's not even pretending to do anything other than jumps.
    The Eurosport guys agreed, saying he was totally a junior, commented about his lack of presentation, at least in the first part of the FS, but his PCS of 72+ suggest otherwise so, if they are going to give him marks like that for empty programs where he jumps to background music, then, well, there's not really a reason for him to change what he's doing seeing as he's being rewarded for it. As long as he lands the big tricks, which he has been doing very consistently this season, the judges will reward him for his jumping and the emptiness of his programs and disconnect between his skating and the music will be overlooked. Even at the JGPF, he got the highest PCS of the field in the FS, and that was against the likes of much more musical skaters like Brown, Tanaka, and Farris, but they all made mistakes while Kovtun was clean with all his jumps including 4t-3t and his great 3a. So basically, he's fine as long as he lands his jumps. I suspect though he might get Nan Song treatment in that, should he be off with his jumps at a given competition, the PCS and total scores will drop significantly. But I don't see that happening at Worlds, his technique is so solid and he's been on a roll this whole season.

  4. #644
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    Yes and I think it's pretty certain Kovtun is going to Worlds. Unless he bombs at Russian Cup but he's been super consistent all season and it's Gachinski, Menshov and Voronov who will probably be doing the bombing.

    Leonova and Gosviani are much more uncertain. Leonova is a trooper and I wouldn't be surprised if she put herself together, finally. Gosviani, on the other hand, will be under huge pressure to perform well. Will she deal with it? Not the positions she's been in before.

    Russian Cup will be very exciting.

  5. #645
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    Is it for sure that all of these skaters will perform at Russian Cup? I thought perhaps the fed might compare the skating displayed at Russian Cup to that performed at Euros by Kovtun and Gosviani.

  6. #646
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    Is it for sure that all of these skaters will perform at Russian Cup? I thought perhaps the fed might compare the skating displayed at Russian Cup to that performed at Euros by Kovtun and Gosviani.
    The three pair of K/S, B/L and S/K are going as well. I guess it's always good to have extra competitons even if you don't go to worlds.

  7. #647
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Leonova is a trooper
    I always think of her as more of a trouper.

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/trooper?s=t
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/trouper?s=t

    Sorry, Ziggy, but I could not resist this one.

  8. #648
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coco View Post
    Leonova dumped herself with her performances, sadly.

    It's as though all her confidence came from knowing she would have the full support of her federation at international competitions. Once this was siphoned off to Sotnikova and Tuk, she decided all was lost and let it all go.

    That's how it seems to me. I really did enjoy the energy and flair she brought to her performances, and the way she would attempt 7 triples somethings, even if she flutzed.

    Good bye to the pirate, hello to wonder babies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Nope. In your head maybe. To most people it seems only fair that a skater who hasn't had a single good competition so far this season isn't sent to Euros.

    If Leonova performs well at the Russian Cup and Gosviani doesn't, Leonova will surely get sent to Worlds.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Yes and I think it's pretty certain Kovtun is going to Worlds. Unless he bombs at Russian Cup but he's been super consistent all season and it's Gachinski, Menshov and Voronov who will probably be doing the bombing.

    Leonova and Gosviani are much more uncertain. Leonova is a trooper and I wouldn't be surprised if she put herself together, finally. Gosviani, on the other hand, will be under huge pressure to perform well. Will she deal with it? Not the positions she's been in before.

    Russian Cup will be very exciting.
    Leonova was the one eligible for euros when the team was announced- gosviani wasn't

    Leonova is under far more pressure than gosviani- its not even close- leonova cant make one mistake in any way and her performance has to be better than gosvianis at euros and equal to or better than her 2012 worlds performance.

    There is no scenario where leonova is sent to worlds

  9. #649
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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    Leonova was the one eligible for euros when the team was announced- gosviani wasn't
    This seems relevant to you, since you keep repeating it, but it was relevant neither to the Russian Fed nor the ISU. In fact, the Russian Fed might have been impressed that not only did Gosviani make the Euros TES minimums at a last-minute junior event, she made one of the Worlds TES minimums and her other TES score may have met the new minimum. Talk about pressure: Gosviani didn't have any other events.to.fall back upon and she needed to prove at Torun and Zagreb that the Russian Fedd was right to appoint her. Perhaps they were impressed, and rightly so, since they had the qualified Leonova to fall back upon.

    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    Leonova is under far more pressure e than gosviani- its not even close- leonova cant make one mistake in any way and her performance has to be better than gosvianis at euros and equal to or better than her 2012 worlds performance.

    There is no scenario where leonova is sent to worlds
    In one way she is, but Gosviani is also under huge pressure.to get international experience.and help.built her reputuion, so she doesn't get buried by the wonder babies and so she can earn a GP assignment on her own. While it won't be great for her, Leonova can call this season a wash like other Worlds medalists who've had bad seasons -- Slutskaya, Suguri, Arakawa -- and focus on next season.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

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    I know it wasnt relevent to the russian federation because of their dumping of leonova right after nationals.

    And gosviani is going to worls so she is going from rejected jrgp skater to euros and worlds because the test for leonova will be to be equal to or better than her worlds 2012 performance

  11. #651
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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    I know it wasnt relevent to the russian federation because of their dumping of leonova right after nationals.

    And gosviani is going to worls so she is going from rejected jrgp skater to euros and worlds because the test for leonova will be to be equal to or better than her worlds 2012 performance
    How do you figure she was dumped after the abysmal season she had?

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    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    How do you figure she was dumped after the abysmal season she had?
    Because she was third in line of euros eligibility when euro team was announced

  13. #653
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    I actually think Leonova may end up getting it... but only if she shows improvements at Russian Cup.

    Leonova got 153.49 and 157.27 for terrible performances on the GP. Gosviani got 154.41 at Euros for a good LP combined with a poor SP. Gosviani wasn't known to the judges, and her scores for the sames skates would probably improve dramatically at Worlds because now she has a reputation. But Leonova's scores would also go up at Worlds if she skates better than she has been and also just because scores tend to go up during the season. They were also only separated by like a point at Nationals.

    People seem to prefer Gosviani's skating but Leonova has the bigger rep and she will get better PCS if she skates well and is more likely to be held up internationally if she does bomb, a luxury Gosviani doesn't have yet. She's also 3rd in WS so she'll draw for her SP within the last two groups, while Gosviani will go much earlier. So Leonova even with a mistake could theoretically end up higher than a clean Gosviani just due to the draw and name recognition. The Russian federation should be relying on Liza and Adelina to get 3 spots, not either of these two, but Leonova might be the better bet as in someone who has some leeway to make the top 10 even if she's not perfect.

    The other thing is, if the fed is looking to promote young skaters, is Gosviani one of them? If their dream team for Sochi is Julia/Liza/Adelina will they even bother to invest anything in her? I'm not saying it's fair, but I believe they think this way.

  14. #654
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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    Because she was third in line of euros eligibility when euro team was announced
    Uh, yeah, so was Menshov. We all know how that played out, and he had a hell of a lot more consistant and better season internationally than Leonova.
    I am free of all prejudices. I hate everyone equally.~W. C. Fields

  15. #655

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    Is it for sure that all of these skaters will perform at Russian Cup? I thought perhaps the fed might compare the skating displayed at Russian Cup to that performed at Euros by Kovtun and Gosviani.
    Gachinski's vkontakt post upthread definitely suggest that he, Menshov, Voronov and Kovtun will still skate off for the Worlds spot.

    Either way, even if Kovtun doesn't go, that would be too late for him to head to JW wouldn't it? Isn't that a little foolish of the RFSF?

  16. #656
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    I actually think Leonova may end up getting it... but only if she shows improvements at Russian Cup.

    Leonova got 153.49 and 157.27 for terrible performances on the GP. Gosviani got 154.41 at Euros for a good LP combined with a poor SP. Gosviani wasn't known to the judges, and her scores for the sames skates would probably improve dramatically at Worlds because now she has a reputation. But Leonova's scores would also go up at Worlds if she skates better than she has been and also just because scores tend to go up during the season. They were also only separated by like a point at Nationals.

    People seem to prefer Gosviani's skating but Leonova has the bigger rep and she will get better PCS if she skates well and is more likely to be held up internationally if she does bomb, a luxury Gosviani doesn't have yet. She's also 3rd in WS so she'll draw for her SP within the last two groups, while Gosviani will go much earlier. So Leonova even with a mistake could theoretically end up higher than a clean Gosviani just due to the draw and name recognition. The Russian federation should be relying on Liza and Adelina to get 3 spots, not either of these two, but Leonova might be the better bet as in someone who has some leeway to make the top 10 even if she's not perfect.

    The other thing is, if the fed is looking to promote young skaters, is Gosviani one of them? If their dream team for Sochi is Julia/Liza/Adelina will they even bother to invest anything in her? I'm not saying it's fair, but I believe they think this way.
    If you get rid of someone who was world silver medalist you can put more attention and more focus on Liza and Adelina and Julia. Just toss out everything previous to those two including Julia. They are future don't even factor in anyone else. So they don't even have to invest in gosviani just use her to put more focus on Liza and Adelina.

    Kovtun had eligibility for euros so skipping menshov for him wasn't skipping for someone who wasn't actually eligible.

  17. #657

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    caseyedwards, your argument is getting a bit repetitive. You will have to get used to the fact that Leonova WAS beaten at senior nationals by Gosviani and that's why Gosviani was sent to Europeans. If Leonova skates well at the Russian Cup final, she may be sent to worlds; if she skates badly, the chances are that she won't be sent. No matter how much you like it or not. So you may post here another hundreds of posts about how unfair and immoral it was, but it is not going to change anything. Besides, the majority of posters here thinks it was not unfair.

  18. #658
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    I didn't say it was immoral. I get why it is happening and even with the nationals result it was a skater being dumped because of the when the third skater was named. Most of the people here because of who leonovas coach is and her programs would have not supported sending leonova anyway lol If she beat Gosviani by a point. The Russia cup final really doesn't matter in naming a skater to worlds.

  19. #659
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    If Leonova had beaten Gosviani by .01, I.don't know who would be arguing that Gosviani should have been sent to Europeans. Leonova would have been sent, and then if continued to skate the way she's skated so far this season, there's no reason to think the international judges would't have dumped her.

    You're just not getting any traction by assuming that anything but Leonova's poor performance at Nationals, and then her early season weakness, which gave the Fed no reason to think her Nationals performance was a fluke were the reasons they didn't send her to Euros. The TES minimums were no sign of achievement or highly regarded by the Fed, especially the low Euros minimums, but a bureaucratic necessity.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

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    The International judges are never going to get the chance because that's been taken care of by the federation. I know everyone thinks that because gosviani beat Leonova the federation had a job to get her to euros and get her the minimums so she could skate no matter she couldn't get out of the country earlier because of how she was skating in domestic competitions pre nationals.

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