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  1. #681

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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    I didn't forget and I have been mentioning it myself! I was just about the eligibility for euros factor.

    Gosviani can do a harder 3/3 than 3t/3t but really they're about equal.
    In what sense? I've frankly never been on the Leonova bandwagon. She is neither a great artist, she doesn't have great stretch, great presentation, nor is she a great jumper. I haven't seen her live but I haven't heard she has this great speed/ etc (basic skater Irina was)The one thing I will give her credit is she knows how to perform a program and has charisma but that's about it. I feel as a skater she's benefited from being the only age eligible skater of a powerful federation who could land a certain number of jumps. This factor gave her political PCS that I'm of the opinion she would not have if she was let's say from a nation like S. Korea, Sweden etc.

    In contrast Gosvani is a much more pleasant skater in terms of stretch, line (if not the performer Leonova is) and has harder jumper content. The only issue she wasn't as consistent as Leonova but she's younger and this is changing. In this sense its not at all clear Leonova's the one with the more potential as a skater. However at this point if Leonova skates well at the Russian Cup I would send her to worlds on the basis of how much Leonova has delivered in the past for them....

    In the case of Leonova's shape. I can't help wonder what you watched. Leonova fell twice in that program and had other step outs, issues two besides the falls. She was frankly a mess. She's been a mess all season so the Russian's seriously asking "what kind of shape is she in" makes total sense. Once again if she was America, Leonova would have no shot at even Worlds. However the Russians wisely split their assignments in this kind of case which means everyone has a shot at winning. The Russians give Gosviani the opportunity to win some points/earn spots for next year. But give them the option of sending the more experienced skater to worlds, and the more experienced skater the option of getting in better shape.

    Your argument that Gosviani deserves to be just "out" in this case is frankly unfair. And I'd point out Gosviani has done well at her assignments. If Leonova continues to skate how she's been skating, thanthe federation would be wise to send her to worlds over Gosviani. Its not fair to hold a skater up based on previous results, when you have the type of young talent Russia has, and said skater has not produced any good results for a whole season.....

  2. #682
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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    Well if you doubt investment in gosviani it's certainly effort and going out of their way at this particular moment to get her to competitions instead of leonova.

    The judges had their favorites but the federation said they were wrong and have made their own choices and said no leonOva even though she could go to euros and gosviani couldn't when she was named.
    So would you have sent Leonova to Euros, and then Gosviani to Worlds (if Gosviani got the TES minimums in the meantime and Leonova skated poorly at Euros)?

    The problem I see with that is that Leonova was skating very poorly up to and including Nationals and there wasn't much reason to think it would change by Euros. Giving her more time to recover for Worlds makes more sense IMO. And sending Gosviani to Euros was important to see how she could skate at a championship and how she would be received by the judges. Leonova doesn't need another Euros; she's been several times. Sending Gosviani to Worlds without the Euros experience would be pointless, too big of a risk. IMO the way it was done makes sense because now they have two legitimate contenders for the Worlds spot, but that is where you and I differ, because I still think Leonova has a decent shot at it.

  3. #683
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    Wow 3flip and 3loop at 35-years of age. Great height on them too. Slutskaya is awesome.

  4. #684

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    She could have won last year's Worlds, perhaps with those jumps. I'll bet she can manage 3t and 3s as well.

  5. #685

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    So would you have sent Leonova to Euros, and then Gosviani to Worlds (if Gosviani got the TES minimums in the meantime and Leonova skated poorly at Euros)?

    The problem I see with that is that Leonova was skating very poorly up to and including Nationals and there wasn't much reason to think it would change by Euros. Giving her more time to recover for Worlds makes more sense IMO. And sending Gosviani to Euros was important to see how she could skate at a championship and how she would be received by the judges. Leonova doesn't need another Euros; she's been several times. Sending Gosviani to Worlds without the Euros experience would be pointless, too big of a risk. IMO the way it was done makes sense because now they have two legitimate contenders for the Worlds spot, but that is where you and I differ, because I still think Leonova has a decent shot
    I think Leonova has more than a decent shot. I think if she skates well at the test skate, she's on the team. I highly doubt the Russian fed would rather send a newbie with little international reputation, over the reigning World Silver medalist... I'm sure Adelina, Tukt, and Leonova was always the preferred team.

    However, Leonova right now is skating extremely poorly and the Russian federation would be foolish if they ignored this. Especially since they have a skater like Gosviani who is talented and has higher technical content than Leonova....

    I see sending Gosviani to Euros was a, "we don't know if Leonova is going to get her act together by worlds, so we better prepare for a plan B." And its also because they do have so many young talented skaters, and they still probably don't know which ones will survive puberty, which ones won't, which ones are good under pressure, which ones aren't. So why not send this one and see how she does?

    Right now there's so much talent in Russia, that the Russians don't need to hold anyone up. I'm sure they want to find a way to give out as many assignments as possible too for the reason I suggested. The USFSA didn't send Wagner to Four Continents either....It doesn't mean they don't support Ashley. Its just they want to invest in all of their girls.

  6. #686

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Why is that relevant?
    What are you talking about?
    Two skaters skate against each other. The better skater gets sent to Worlds. The pressure is pretty equal.
    SCENARIO WHERE LEONOVA IS SENT TO WORLDS: SHE SKATES BETTER THAN GOSVIANI
    Jesus Christ, I really want to believe you're just trolling.
    And this exactly the point.
    It was relevant because it was a fact that leonova could go but gosviani couldn't

    Talking about how great leonova has to be at the cup final that must be equal to or greater than how she skated at 2012 worlds. She can fall or single or double a jump? No

    It's not equal pressure- that's ridiculous to say . Leonova has to redeem a whole season and be better than when she won silver at worlds and gosviani at this point has the federation


    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    In what sense? I've frankly never been on the Leonova bandwagon. She is neither a great artist, she doesn't have great stretch, great presentation, nor is she a great jumper. I haven't seen her live but I haven't heard she has this great speed/ etc (basic skater Irina was)The one thing I will give her credit is she knows how to perform a program and has charisma but that's about it. I feel as a skater she's benefited from being the only age eligible skater of a powerful federation who could land a certain number of jumps. This factor gave her political PCS that I'm of the opinion she would not have if she was let's say from a nation like S. Korea, Sweden etc.

    In contrast Gosvani is a much more pleasant skater in terms of stretch, line (if not the performer Leonova is) and has harder jumper content. The only issue she wasn't as consistent as Leonova but she's younger and this is changing. In this sense its not at all clear Leonova's the one with the more potential as a skater. However at this point if Leonova skates well at the Russian Cup I would send her to worlds on the basis of how much Leonova has delivered in the past for them....

    In the case of Leonova's shape. I can't help wonder what you watched. Leonova fell twice in that program and had other step outs, issues two besides the falls. She was frankly a mess. She's been a mess all season so the Russian's seriously asking "what kind of shape is she in" makes total sense. Once again if she was America, Leonova would have no shot at even Worlds. However the Russians wisely split their assignments in this kind of case which means everyone has a shot at winning. The Russians give Gosviani the opportunity to win some points/earn spots for next year. But give them the option of sending the more experienced skater to worlds, and the more experienced skater the option of getting in better shape.

    Your argument that Gosviani deserves to be just "out" in this case is frankly unfair. And I'd point out Gosviani has done well at her assignments. If Leonova continues to skate how she's been skating, thanthe federation would be wise to send her to worlds over Gosviani. Its not fair to hold a skater up based on previous results, when you have the type of young talent Russia has, and said skater has not produced any good results for a whole season.....
    I have liked the past two or 3 seasons of free skates of leonova and on jumps gosviani has a harder 3/3 but is not so superior to leonova.

    No one cares and the federation really didn't care that leonova was eligible for euros and gosviani wasn't and now gosviani is eligible for worlds having already been the pick for euros....


    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    So would you have sent Leonova to Euros, and then Gosviani to Worlds (if Gosviani got the TES minimums in the meantime and Leonova skated poorly at Euros)?

    The problem I see with that is that Leonova was skating very poorly up to and including Nationals and there wasn't much reason to think it would change by Euros. Giving her more time to recover for Worlds makes more sense IMO. And sending Gosviani to Euros was important to see how she could skate at a championship and how she would be received by the judges. Leonova doesn't need another Euros; she's been several times. Sending Gosviani to Worlds without the Euros experience would be pointless, too big of a risk. IMO the way it was done makes sense because now they have two legitimate contenders for the Worlds spot, but that is where you and I differ, because I still think Leonova has a decent shot at it.
    I would have sent leonova to euros and maybe gosviani to worlds because I don't really think someone gets better in competitions when they are prevented from competing. If she bombed euros than if gosviani got eligibility for worlds at the nesquik cup she could have gone to worlds. Because than she would have been eligible and it wouldn't have been so quick to ends leonovas season- I think prematurely. Now it's over anyway outside Russia and it's all gosviani

  7. #687

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    Jesus Christ, is caseyedwards by any chance Leonova's mother, grandmother or her boyfriend? In any case, caseyedwards seem to be unable to listen to any reason, so I think we should try to stop discussing this topic because it doesn't seem to be leading anywhere. I don't think Leonova was dumped, in fact she was held up at the nationals, but we are not going to persuade caseyedwards, so let's stop talking about it. Hopefully caseyedwards will stop too if no one is going to bite.

  8. #688

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    You are talking about her being held up at nationals by judges when that is irrelevant to what the federation did with the euros team announcement and gosviani being named when she couldn't even go. And I was asked some questions so I was going to reply.

  9. #689

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    Quote Originally Posted by DORISPULASKI View Post
    She could have won last year's Worlds, perhaps with those jumps. I'll bet she can manage 3t and 3s as well.
    I know you are joking...BUT...she couldn't even manage a true combo in that number. She looks AMAZING for 35, but no way could she have beaten Kostner last year.

    As to the other critcism, that the 80s called and wanted it's winning jump content back, it was VERY rare that a ladies skater in the 80s showed 4 types of triples. Kostner showed 4 types of triples at worlds last year. (Which, btw, is all that Kim showed to win the Olympics.) Manley, Ito, occaisionally Trenary (maybe once or twice in a major championship) and possibly Witt in 83 or 84, but not after that. And of those four ladies, only Ito ever showed a 3-3 combo, which would have been necessary keep pace with Kostner in the SP.

    Normally I wouldn't hijack a thread like this, but this thread belongs at a glue factory if you know what I mean.
    Keeper of Nathalie Pechelat's bitchface.

  10. #690

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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    You are talking about her being held up at nationals by judges when that is irrelevant to what the federation did with the euros team announcement and gosviani being named when she couldn't even go. And I was asked some questions so I was going to reply.
    Gosviani COULD go if she met the minimum requirements. Her federation gave her the opportunity to earn them which she did. And the federation did it partly because of how Leonova has skated. If Leonova had finished ahead of Gosviani, there would have been I bet no discussion.

    If you want to start this argument than you have to argue that two years ago it was unfair to provisionally name V/T to the World team, because they hadn't yet met the requirements. Gosviani hadn't had the opportunity to yet either.
    Last edited by bek; 02-09-2013 at 11:16 PM.

  11. #691

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    Okay, shutting up the endless circle for a moment...

    Artur Gachinski interview with FTP Press (thanks to Google Translate!):

    From 16 to 19 February in Tver Russian Cup final will take place in figure skating, the results of which will be determined only member of the World Championship of Russia in the men’s figure skating. One of the main contenders for this holiday is a bronze medalist of the 2011 World Cup Artur Gachinski. About his attitude to the competition skater told theFTP-Press .

    - In the finals of the Russian Cup you have to compete for a single ticket to the World Cup. What form are you now?

    - This is better to ask Mishin. I feel in good shape. In any case, in training I have all turns out, there is a confidence in their abilities. No problems, and with his back all right.

    - Once you are at the Russian championship and took fourth place at the European Championship is selected, you have not given up?

    - No. On the contrary, there was a desire to further training, to prove that a bad start to the season was an accident. Therefore, we started with Alexei Nikolayevich insert other elements into the program. In the short, we try to strengthen the two quad. Also we are working on the choreography.

    - At the beginning of the season and the championship of Russia have greatly swelled legs, and you could not normally exercise. Now this problem is solved?

    - Yes, the problem we have solved. It was in the skate, which I did not fit. After the Russian Championship, I changed the boots, and now I have everything in order. New skates already rolled out, so do not feel any discomfort.

    - Do not worry about the fact that the pre-Olympic season was so rough?

    - Of course, no one likes challenges, but especially on this occasion I am not worried. The main thing is that this season - not Olympic. Better that these difficulties are now than next year.

    - You have said that your frustrations at the event are psychological. You are not working with a psychologist?

    - No. I have no desire to invite a psychologist, because the problems I used to work out together with Alexei Nikolaevich. Someone psychologist does help someone but no for me (i guess this is what he means cos google translation is a mess sometimes). All the cockroaches in the head (lol google translation)

    - You are determined to be selected for the World Cup and to make it?

    - Yes. I only need to deal with their nerves and show what I can do.

    Hmmm.

    Artur, I appreciate your optimism. But even I wouldn't send you right now. And I think the RFSF is only going to be convinced if he won by like 50 points.
    Last edited by misskarne; 02-10-2013 at 09:42 AM. Reason: forgot the link!

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    Stolbova & Klimov won the Bavarian Open with 182.87. They achieved +GOE in all their elements.
    Antipova & Maisuradze finished in second place with 173.98. Three of their elements were punished with -GOE: one lift and the two sbs jump passes.

  13. #693
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    Yay for S&K!

    Artur can't possibly be adding a second quad to his SP. He's never even attempted other than the toe in a competition? I wonder if it should really say "quad combination." Anyway it's obvious Kovtun is going, but regardless, I like to read that Artur is feeling confident in himself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaiKozOda View Post
    Antipova & Maisuradze finished in second place with 173.98. Three of their elements were punished with -GOE: one lift and the two sbs jump passes.
    I think they still met the qualifying scores for worlds which is always handy. We never know what can happen next year.

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    Well, it takes awhile to get used to new skates, but I'm glad Artur seems to be on the road to recovery at least. And I don't doubt the two quads thing, I've heard he's capable of 4s and 4lo in practice, 4s I think is actually pretty consistent from what I have heard.

  16. #696

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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    Gosviani COULD go if she met the minimum requirements. Her federation gave her the opportunity to earn them which she did. And the federation did it partly because of how Leonova has skated. If Leonova had finished ahead of Gosviani, there would have been I bet no discussion.

    If you want to start this argument than you have to argue that two years ago it was unfair to provisionally name V/T to the World team, because they hadn't yet met the requirements. Gosviani hadn't had the opportunity to yet either.
    V/t won so they showed themselves the best and I had no problem with them being named because all other skaters in pairs were defeated by them. This is 6th And 7th places so you are discussing two non medalists and the criteria for the third spot is whatever. So basically I don't agree that gosviani is a ladies version of v/t. There are just too many things like them being ineligible for a hear because of her country switch too.

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    Does somebody know who is going to represent Russia at EYOWF in Brasov?

  18. #698

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    Junior Men
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    TAT in a solo Russian talk show interview: http://urgantshow.ru/page/21367
    can anyone translate ? the setting is like Jay Leno's show

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    Quote Originally Posted by love_skate2011 View Post
    TAT in a solo Russian talk show interview: http://urgantshow.ru/page/21367
    can anyone translate ? the setting is like Jay Leno's show
    why the hell is she wearing the Sochi jacket the other way round?! And wtf about the skates? TAT is losing it.
    "I'm not in this world to live up to your expectations and you're not in this world to live up to mine."

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