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  1. #621

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    Quote Originally Posted by kirkbiggestfan View Post
    Leonova is the current world silver medalist and is politely being shown the retirement door. It is sad that Morozov gave her that crap of a LP that highlighted all her weaknesses last year.
    I love Gosviani's skating..gorgeous lines, attention to details, balletic posture..the Russian ballerina on ice, everything Leonova is not.
    Has it ever happened to a silver medalist to be dropped like this?
    In 1999, Irina Slutskaia was left off the team for Europeans and Worlds in spite of being the 1998 World & European silver medalist.

  2. #622
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eislauffan View Post
    In 1999, Irina Slutskaia was left off the team for Europeans and Worlds in spite of being the 1998 World & European silver medalist.
    And Slutskaya returned much stronger after a lot of people having said that she was done. I perfectly remember it.

  3. #623

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    His programs are totally empty and don't even have a semblance of style. He's not even pretending to do anything other than jumps.
    And the other Russian men are offering so much more....

  4. #624
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    Quote Originally Posted by morqet View Post
    And the other Russian men are offering so much more....
    Voronov is similarly terrible, program wise thanks to Tricky Nicky.

    But Menshov's programs aren't that bad.

  5. #625

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eislauffan View Post
    In 1999, Irina Slutskaia was left off the team for Europeans and Worlds in spite of being the 1998 World & European silver medalist.
    The isu didnt have the cop then and didnt have to through all the effort of getting minimums and stuff.the person who went instead of slutskaya was actually eligible right away

    Leonova is not slutskaya in any way!

    There is much more talent now

    Leonova is much more fragile and inconsistent
    Last edited by caseyedwards; 02-07-2013 at 07:16 PM.

  6. #626

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    Suguri was off the JPN world team in 2007 despite being the world silver medalist

  7. #627

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    But its the same thing Suguri- the person who replaced her was eligible and there was no doubt of there eligibility. It's not like the person who replaced her had to go to 4CC or some senior B or junior B to get eligibility.

  8. #628
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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    The isu didnt have the cop then and didnt have to through all the effort of getting minimums and stuff.the person who went instead of slutskaya was actually eligible right away

    Leonova is not slutskaya in any way!

    There is much more talent now

    Leonova is much more fragile and inconsistent
    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    But its the same thing Suguri- the person who replaced her was eligible and there was no doubt of there eligibility. It's not like the person who replaced her had to go to 4CC or some senior B or junior B to get eligibility.
    Why does this matter for the Worlds spot? Only for the Euros spot was Gosviani not yet eligible. As far as the ISU was concerned, Gosviani's appointment to Euros was provisional, until she turned in scores from an international, which she did at a Junior B. Had she not, Russia would have sent its first alternate. Once she earned the Worlds minimums in Warsaw and Zagreb, she became as eligible as the skater who replaced Suguri when the selection was made. The Worlds spot was still open -- it wasn't assigned to Gosviani automatically, dumping reigning silver World medalist Leonova off the World team, before Gosviani became eligible. The Russian Fed reserved the right to evaluate Gosviani's results at Euros and Leonova's at its internal competition or to flip a coin.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  9. #629

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    Why does this matter for the Worlds spot? Only for the Euros spot was Gosviani not yet eligible. As far as the ISU was concerned, Gosviani's appointment to Euros was provisional, until she turned in scores from an international, which she did at a Junior B. Had she not, Russia would have sent its first alternate. Once she earned the Worlds minimums in Warsaw and Zagreb, she became as eligible as the skater who replaced Suguri when the selection was made. The Worlds spot was still open -- it wasn't assigned to Gosviani automatically, dumping reigning silver World medalist Leonova off the World team, before Gosviani became eligible. The Russian Fed reserved the right to evaluate Gosviani's results at Euros and Leonova's at its internal competition or to flip a coin.
    It was like this for Euros though. The world silver medalist was dumped for somone not yet eligible and there was no hesitation about doing that. Now that Gosviani is eligible of course she is going to worlds. So that is not dumping Leonova as that was already done for Euros, Gosviani being put on the list before she was eligible.

  10. #630
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moka-Ananas View Post
    I don't get the hating towards Kovtun.
    Yes, he was lucky he got sent to Euros, no doubt about that. The outrage was understandable after Russian Nats that he got picked over Menshov.
    BUT
    Kovtun actually DELIVERED at Euros, making the fed's decision to send him justified.
    Isn't the skater's actual performance at Europeans irrelevant? The question is whether the choice was fair. The Federation went by its own rules, but on a moral level, one could (and I would) argue that Menshov would have been a better choice.

    Russia also sent Plushenko to Euros. He did not deliver; he withdrew in the middle of competition. Does that make the decision to send him unjustified?
    Last edited by Vagabond; 02-08-2013 at 05:45 AM.

  11. #631
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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    It was like this for Euros though. The world silver medalist was dumped for somone not yet eligible and there was no hesitation about doing that. Now that Gosviani is eligible of course she is going to worlds. So that is not dumping Leonova as that was already done for Euros, Gosviani being put on the list before she was eligible.
    At most, the World silver medalist was dumped provisionally for someone who was not yet eligible. Had Gosviani not delivered in Warsaw and made her Euros TES minimums, then she wouldn't have been eligible.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

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    I think the choice was not only fair, but also moral! Vagabond, you seem to overlook that the silver world medallist actually skated the whole season so badly that she was beaten by ladies who are much lower in world standings, such as Korpi (4), Sotnikova (7), Wagner (10), Marchei (11), Murakami (12), Meite (13), Zawadsky (19), Imai (21), Gao (24), and Gold (29) - in commas I listed the world standings of ladies that beat the silver world medallist during the GP events (Standings as of: 2/4/2013 12:03:47 AM). We are not talking about Leonova having one off bad event, we are talking about her skating badly the whole season and being beaten by ladies who are 19th, 21st, 24th and 29th in world standings! I don't think that should happen to silver world medallist and when it does, then the skater deserves to stay home and not be sent to Europeans. And to top it all, she was beaten by a skater who was third substitute to their own nationals. I think that should be pretty embarrassing for her!
    Last edited by hanca; 02-07-2013 at 10:46 PM.

  13. #633
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    Vagabond was talking about the men's selection as a moral choice, and Menshov not only beat Kovtun fairly at Russian Nationals, he also had a stronger GP season than Leonova.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  14. #634

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    Sorry, I did not mean to address it to Vagabond, that was for caseyedwards. I don't think Leonova was dumped. I think she just did not earn it. As soon as she starts delivering, she will be sent, so she actually wasn't dumped. Being dumped in my opinion means not to be sent even when you deserve it because you have been delivering at competitions. Leonova wasn't delivering.

  15. #635
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    I don't know which is more bizarre -- confusing Konstantin Menshov with Alena Leonova, or me with caseyedwards.

  16. #636

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    At the time of the announcement of the Euros team the top three eligible for Euros were Tuktamisheva, Sotnikova and Leonova. That was who was eligible for Euros. The federation went right over Leonova and announced Gosviani would be on the team and they would make her eligible. The ISU entry lists for Euros said Gosviani* with asterisk meaning not eligible yet. It wasn't even an open spot. They just went out there and Leonova just doesn't really exist anymore.

  17. #637
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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    At the time of the announcement of the Euros team the top three eligible for Euros were Tuktamisheva, Sotnikova and Leonova. That was who was eligible for Euros. The federation went right over Leonova and announced Gosviani would be on the team and they would make her eligible. The ISU entry lists for Euros said Gosviani* with asterisk meaning not eligible yet. It wasn't even an open spot. They just went out there and Leonova just doesn't really exist anymore.
    Well there's different types of eligibility. Leonova was not in the top 3 for age-eligibility. Age is immutable. Being ineligible due to lack of a minimum tech score is a temporary status with a simple solution. Gosviani hadn't even had an opportunity to compete in several years, so it's not like they gave the spot to someone who has been skating so poorly internationally that she couldn't make the score. It makes more sense to put Gosviani with an asterisk for Euros, and WD her if she doesn't make the score, than to put Leonova on the team, and then WD her for Gosviani once she made the score at Nesquik.

    Being that Leonova was behind Gosviani at Nationals, I don't feel like they skipped over her because she didn't earn the spot. It was a huge diss though, because Russia of all federations is usually the one to look past Nationals and put the veteran on the team. It was a message to Leonova that her results this season were crap and there's too much talent now for her to rest on her laurels, even from as recently as last season.

  18. #638

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    Well there's different types of eligibility. Leonova was not in the top 3 for age-eligibility. Age is immutable. Being ineligible due to lack of a minimum tech score is a temporary status with a simple solution. Gosviani hadn't even had an opportunity to compete in several years, so it's not like they gave the spot to someone who has been skating so poorly internationally that she couldn't make the score. It makes more sense to put Gosviani with an asterisk for Euros, and WD her if she doesn't make the score, than to put Leonova on the team, and then WD her for Gosviani once she made the score at Nesquik.

    Being that Leonova was behind Gosviani at Nationals, I don't feel like they skipped over her because she didn't earn the spot. It was a huge diss though, because Russia of all federations is usually the one to look past Nationals and put the veteran on the team. It was a message to Leonova that her results this season were crap and there's too much talent now for her to rest on her laurels, even from as recently as last season.
    I don't know that the problem with Leonova that she stopped trying. "Rest on her laurels" is there proof of that?

    Leonova was not in the top 3 of age eligibility she was in the top 3 of eligibilty for Euros.

    Because Gosviani had such terrible results domestically she couldn't get assigned anything internationally.

    But it was a huge diss and it was dumping. It's the clearest example of dumping in years and she's not going to worlds either. I think that's settled.

  19. #639

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    Gachinski almost never tweets but this time it was very interesting!

    With thanks and to Google Translate:

    After the Russian Championship, I changed horses, and now I have everything in order. New skates already rolled out, so do not feel any discomfort.
    https://twitter.com/ArturGachinski/s...25066361892865 (I assume Google Translate has erroneously inserted "horses" for "boots"?)

    Of course, no one likes challenges, but especially on this occasion I am not worried. The main thing is that this season - not Olympic.
    https://twitter.com/ArturGachinski/s...25277490585600

    Someone psychologist does help someone - no. All the cockroaches in the head.

    https://twitter.com/ArturGachinski/status/299825452799897600


    And he posted this on his vkontak (sp?) thingo:

    "Yes, it is. Cup Final In Russia, we want to see the condition of the contenders for the trip to Canada. Among the candidates for the national team - Maxim Kovtun, Sergei Voronov, Kostya Menchov, Artur Gachinski.'ll See who it is now riding. then take the final decision ", - quotes Piseyev" R-Sport. "
    http://vk.com/gachinski?w=wall-25794...ed7ac267adec69


    Seems to indicate that the skate-off is still on.

  20. #640
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    His programs are totally empty and don't even have a semblance of style. He's not even pretending to do anything other than jumps.
    IIRC, his programmes were hastily put together in July after he had been kicked out from Morosov's camp.

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