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  1. #321

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    "O! beware, my lord, of jealousy; It is the green-eyed monster which doth mock The meat it feeds on." ~ Shakespeare

  2. #322

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    Gachinski and Mishin have talked to All Sport, trying to explain the problems:

    Gachinski:

    "I strongly numb legs and appear very uncomfortable. It started last year, but then it was not so pronounced. Doctors say flat - CLOTHING insole. Influence rather than that, and a strange lack of preparation before each rental. The disease, the common cold, then something else.

    Need to understand yourself, and then go to the gym. Confidence seems to come, I'm all figured out, but on the ice until it fails to reflect "
    (here)

    Mishin:

    "Arthur this year because of some very personal circumstances is not entirely stable."
    (here)

    Apologies for dodgy Google Translate.

    I think so far there have been three problems identified:

    1) Numbess in his legs
    2) Weakened immune system (I remember Mishin mentioning this after SC as well)
    3) The "very personal" circumstance

  3. #323

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    I hope Gachinski can work through his problems- physical and emotional, and comes back a stronger skater. He has too much talent to miss out on a solid skating career.

  4. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    I believe this is code for "if you pay me enough, I will go to Worlds and save you the embarrassment".
    I hope I have understood you, Plush will compete on WCH if the Russian Federation will pay enough money to him? It seems you don't know the Russian conditions, that isn't USA. The Rus Fed has a lots of other assets, if they want to send Plush to London. Do you remember to 2010, after WCH?
    And Plush has enough money, he earned more than 3 million dollars( russian Forbes Magazine) in two last years. And his wife is an also famous and succesful celebrity in Russia. Plush will earn a lots of money with the "Just 30" shows in Russia and in other countries of Europe in spring.( His wife planned 30 shows ) He will perform in Artists On Ice in Switzerland and in the Skandinavian countries, etc. But I don't say that Plushenko will compete on WCH, if he will be healthy..I think, he will compete when he will be ready to fight with the youngs.
    Last edited by lala; 01-02-2013 at 04:14 PM.

  5. #325
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    I agree that Plushenko's skating at worlds has nothing to do with money. He won't skate unless he is totally in shape and feeling good so he can be competitive with the Japanese and Chan. Europeans is another story. He can beat Fernandez and Amodio. Both have a tendency to fold under real pressure and Plushenko owns Europeans. I would be thrilled if he opted to skate at Worlds since that would mean he's 100%, but I don't think that will happen. It's not worth the risk of injury prior to next year's big event. He's already going to the Olympics and I doubt either he or Mishin are all that concerned about if there is a 2nd spot or who would have it.
    Those who never succeed themselves are always the first to tell you how.

  6. #326

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    Quote Originally Posted by rfisher View Post
    I agree that Plushenko's skating at worlds has nothing to do with money. He won't skate unless he is totally in shape and feeling good so he can be competitive with the Japanese and Chan. Europeans is another story. He can beat Fernandez and Amodio. Both have a tendency to fold under real pressure and Plushenko owns Europeans. I would be thrilled if he opted to skate at Worlds since that would mean he's 100%, but I don't think that will happen. It's not worth the risk of injury prior to next year's big event. He's already going to the Olympics and I doubt either he or Mishin are all that concerned about if there is a 2nd spot or who would have it.
    Just to play Devils Advocate... assuming that Russia only has one spot for men in Sochi, what do you think would happen if Plushenko struggled at Nationals next year, & one of Kovtun/Gachinski/Vonorov had a really strong autumn & won Nats? Do we all think the Olympic spot is already tied up or is there still potential for one of the younger guys to take it from him?
    Last edited by morqet; 01-02-2013 at 02:14 PM.

  7. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by morqet View Post
    Just to play Devils Advocate... assuming that Russia only has one spot for men in Sochi, what do you think would happen if Plushenko struggled at Nationals next year, & one of Kovtun/Gachinski/Vonorov had a really strong autumn & won Nats? Do we all think the Olympic spot is already tied up or is there stil potential for one of the younger guys to take it from him?
    Plushenko could compete in both the championships and increase the chance of getting injured again and be ruled out of the Olympics altogether. I think Russians have learned the lesson with the case of Shablin, never to rush or over do while nursing a serious injury. I think they are doing the balancing act of being in the spotlight going into the Olympics ( and not to totally pi$$ of I$u ) and not over do training during each season. Gachinski and Kovtun could very well be a challenge next year, but so far we haven't seen anything from those two to rival Plushenko. Not going to the worlds is a risk I think Plushenko and his team is ready to take considering the alternative.

  8. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by morqet View Post
    Just to play Devils Advocate... assuming that Russia only has one spot for men in Sochi, what do you think would happen if Plushenko struggled at Nationals next year, & one of Kovtun/Gachinski/Vonorov had a really strong autumn & won Nats? Do we all think the Olympic spot is already tied up or is there still potential for one of the younger guys to take it from him?
    Yes the spot is his and no I do not think any of the other Russian men will challenge him unless he's too injured to skate. If that happens, it's a moot point because none of the others have a prayer of a medal unless all the Japanese and Chan decide Sochi is too cold and stay home.
    Those who never succeed themselves are always the first to tell you how.

  9. #329

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    I believe this is code for "if you pay me enough, I will go to Worlds and save you the embarrassment".
    I don't think Plushenko cares about/needs money. He has plenty of it. He loves to compete. If he is healthy enough to be competitive, he will be there.

  10. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    I don't think Plushenko cares about/needs money. He has plenty of it. He loves to compete. If he is healthy enough to be competitive, he will be there.
    I'm not sure about this statement. I certainly wouldn't blame Plushenko if he did care about money; if nothing else, he needs it to pay for all those German knee operations. And even if he doesn't care about money, I will wager his wife does, and perhaps his ex-wife as well. He does not lead an inexpensive life.

  11. #331

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    Quote Originally Posted by nylynnr View Post
    I'm not sure about this statement. I certainly wouldn't blame Plushenko if he did care about money; if nothing else, he needs it to pay for all those German knee operations. And even if he doesn't care about money, I will wager his wife does, and perhaps his ex-wife as well. He does not lead an inexpensive life.
    You misunderstoood my statement. I was referring to competition. He will compete if he is healthy, whether he gets money or not. The poster I was responding to implied that he would compete if he gets more money. That is simply not true. We have seen this skater for years, and we know how much it means to him to win competitions. He could have retired from skating years ago, and made tons of money. Sure, he likes to get paid, but that's not why he wants to compete in the 2014 Olympics. It's in his country and competing there means a lot more to him. He will get the money whether he competes or not.

  12. #332
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    I did not misunderstand you, and I stand by my post. Plushenko did "retire" years ago, he did make (and continues to make) money with his shows, and then he made still more money and became a longer-lasting Russian celebrity by enhancing his image with his repeated returns to competition. I have absolutely no doubt that his desire (not to say amazing ability) to compete plays a huge role, but I also have no doubt that whatever money he can make while doing so sweetens the pot and acts as further encouragement. He would be a fool not to earn whatever he can for himself and his family(s). And no, I do not believe he would make as much money, were he not to compete in Sochi.

  13. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    I hope Gachinski can work through his problems- physical and emotional, and comes back a stronger skater. He has too much talent to miss out on a solid skating career.
    Agreed. Although the numbness in his legs is worrying, he also seems to have lost some weight, either that or grown taller and is just lankier, that together with the numbness could be symptoms of crohn's disease, which would obviously affect his stamina and can be quite serious. Hopefully the issue is not so grave as that, but it's hard to tell what is going on with him, but obviously whatever it is is fairly significant, as he is quite noticeably off his game without any obvious technique flaws or issues on certain jumps to blame.

  14. #334

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    Quote Originally Posted by nylynnr View Post
    I did not misunderstand you, and I stand by my post. Plushenko did "retire" years ago, he did make (and continues to make) money with his shows, and then he made still more money and became a longer-lasting Russian celebrity by enhancing his image with his repeated returns to competition. I have absolutely no doubt that his desire (not to say amazing ability) to compete plays a huge role, but I also have no doubt that whatever money he can make while doing so sweetens the pot and acts as further encouragement. He would be a fool not to earn whatever he can for himself and his family(s). And no, I do not believe he would make as much money, were he not to compete in Sochi.
    I disagree with you. Plushenko can make as much money without competing in Sochi, as he would while competing. Actually he may be risking his health by preparing to compete in an eligible competition. The reason he wants to compete in Sochi is he wants to compete for his country. Whether his fed pays him money for it or not is not going to make that decision for him.

  15. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    I don't think Plushenko cares about/needs money. He has plenty of it. He loves to compete. If he is healthy enough to be competitive, he will be there.
    Plushenko definitely likes to compete and he undoubtedly is a great competitor but I don't think he wants to compete just for his personal pleasure, didn't some of the Russian media say back in 2009-2010 that he wanted one million dollars from the Russian Fed to compete in Vancouver? I clearly remember that they did. And didn't Plushenko himself say after the 2006 Olympics that he would not continue with his eligible career because he was tired of skating for the State and it was high time for him to skate in shows to be able to provide for his family? So I don't believe that he doesn't care about money. But what's wrong about caring for money?

    Quote Originally Posted by morqet View Post
    Just to play Devils Advocate... assuming that Russia only has one spot for men in Sochi, what do you think would happen if Plushenko struggled at Nationals next year, & one of Kovtun/Gachinski/Vonorov had a really strong autumn & won Nats? Do we all think the Olympic spot is already tied up or is there still potential for one of the younger guys to take it from him?
    I really don't know about Gachinski who seems to have some health issues and Voronov hasn't been able to improve his components scores much over the years but Kovtun, if he gets to nail his three quad jumps in the free skate, I can see him challenging Plushenko's title at the next Nationals. There is a big 'if' though.

  16. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    I disagree with you. Plushenko can make as much money without competing in Sochi, as he would while competing. Actually he may be risking his health by preparing to compete in an eligible competition. The reason he wants to compete in Sochi is he wants to compete for his country. Whether his fed pays him money for it or not is not going to make that decision for him.
    Of course. Everybody loves the money, but Plushy easily can make more money if he doesn't compete. I don't believe that the Russian Federation will pay a lot of money and lets for Plushy, that he doesn't start at the World Cup, where the stakes are high.

  17. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    I believe this is code for "if you pay me enough, I will go to Worlds and save you the embarrassment".
    And what could Plushenko do with the money? Buy himself new legs and a healthy back? Because that's the only thing he needs if he wants to attend Worlds and win a medal.

  18. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domshabfan View Post
    Gachinski and Kovtun could very well be a challenge next year, but so far we haven't seen anything from those two to rival Plushenko. Not going to the worlds is a risk I think Plushenko and his team is ready to take considering the alternative.
    This year, no, but last year, there were arguments here that Gachinski wuzrobbed at Europeans last year. If he gets back to form, there's a chance he would challenge, but I think he'd have to be 30% better to beat Plushenko at Russian Nationals. I think if Tarasova tried to mess with Plushenko, Mishin would squash her like a bug.

    I think it's crazy for Plushenko to compete at Worlds if it would compromise his condition. He starts on a tour the week after Worlds (March-April with possibly more dates, according to Weir's tweet), and, contractually, that's not an either-or. If he's injured going into the tour, that will set him back greatly in his preparation for Sochi.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  19. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciocio View Post
    And what could Plushenko do with the money? Buy himself new legs and a healthy back? Because that's the only thing he needs if he wants to attend Worlds and win a medal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    I disagree with you. Plushenko can make as much money without competing in Sochi, as he would while competing. Actually he may be risking his health by preparing to compete in an eligible competition. The reason he wants to compete in Sochi is he wants to compete for his country. Whether his fed pays him money for it or not is not going to make that decision for him.
    I agree. It is not an issue whether Plushenko cares for money or not (why wouldn't he?), but whether he competes for money. I am convinced he does not. He is rich, famous and influential and stands to lose more than gain if he does not deliver. Somebody that legendary ( and old) does not put oneself through surgeries, grueling work- outs and risk of failure for money ( would anybody say Dara Torres competed for money?) I think he does it for legacy, and for the thrill. Yagudin talks about how he misses that incredible adrenaline rush of holding the world in the palm of your hand for 5 minutes; the danger and conquest. Plushenko still can do it if he is selective, so he does. Takes a very special mindset, genius and luck.
    improving my ballad- like lines

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