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  1. #281

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasey View Post
    It's not a matter of people not liking Kovtun; it's a matter that, he didn't earn this gift from TAT. As others pointed out, he's done fine in JUNIOR events; shorter length of programs, fewer elements required. If he was really up to competing with the big guns, he would have beaten Menshov at nationals, but he didn't. He couldn't pull it out at his own nationals, where he (and most) get joke PCS scores and he has one of the most influential of coaches in his corner. He couldn't get the job done. So yes, send him to some senior B's for experience before next year and send the skater who has had a consistent, if not stellar, season to the Europeans that most fans and skaters feel he has earned. If Plush and Voronov are there to assure the three spots for next season and the third place person is just someone to go along, why the hell not Menshov? And if the third place person is only going for their own personal glory, again, why the hell not Menshov? He's earned it by working so hard and long to the point that he's a more complete and consistent skater now than he was 10 years ago. Let the old man have his damn glory. And let the kid earn his chance, like everyone else.
    All of this!

  2. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasey View Post
    Let the old man have his damn glory. And let the kid earn his chance, like everyone else.
    +1

  3. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasey View Post
    It's not a matter of people not liking Kovtun; it's a matter that, he didn't earn this gift from TAT. As others pointed out, he's done fine in JUNIOR events; shorter length of programs, fewer elements required. If he was really up to competing with the big guns, he would have beaten Menshov at nationals, but he didn't. He couldn't pull it out at his own nationals, where he (and most) get joke PCS scores and he has one of the most influential of coaches in his corner. He couldn't get the job done. So yes, send him to some senior B's for experience before next year and send the skater who has had a consistent, if not stellar, season to the Europeans that most fans and skaters feel he has earned. If Plush and Voronov are there to assure the three spots for next season and the third place person is just someone to go along, why the hell not Menshov? And if the third place person is only going for their own personal glory, again, why the hell not Menshov? He's earned it by working so hard and long to the point that he's a more complete and consistent skater now than he was 10 years ago. Let the old man have his damn glory. And let the kid earn his chance, like everyone else.
    Another

    I like both, Kovtun and Menshov, but the way Russian Fed acted here is simply and not only embarassing for Russian Fed, but to some extent also for poor Kovtun.
    If I were him, I'd be scared to go to Euros, knowing that all my teammates think I didn't deserve that spot.

  4. #284

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    Oleg Nilov: "The Ministry of Sports should be involved in resolving the situation with Menshov": http://www.sports.ru/others/figure-s...tml?ext=yandex
    Nilov is the President of the Figure Skating Federation of St. Petersburg where Menshov trains.
    Via Google Translate:
    "I am the only member of the Executive Committee of Russian Figure Skating Federation voted against the decision to include in the national team for the European Championship Maxim Kovtun. I believe that everyone should be decided on sports lines.
    ...
    I might add that we, in preparing an appeal on behalf of the Federation of St. Petersburg to the Russian sports minister Vitaly Mutko with a request to defend the principle of sport in shaping the national team. Still, it is a representation of Russia at the world level. I believe that the Ministry of Sports should include in the resolution of this situation is not fair."

    ETA:
    Mutko: The question of replacing the skater Menshov to discuss Kovtun in January
    Article link in Russian: http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20121229/637615527.html

    Here's an article by Andrei Simonenko (who criticized the federation's decision in his blog - link was posted earlier in this thread) that summarizes the Menshov-Kovtun situation: http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20121228/637515956.html
    Via Google Translate: http://translate.google.com/translat...637515956.html
    Last edited by Sylvia; 12-29-2012 at 04:36 PM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  5. #285
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    Wow. It's turning out to be quite a story.

    What really p*ssed me off about the whole situation is tarasovas rather obvious influence on the decision.
    Figure skating is such a beautiful sport, but Politics makes it really quite ugly sometimes.

  6. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by euterpe View Post
    Kovtun got all golds in JUNIOR competition. And in his junior events, he didn't get the huge PCS scores he got at RN.

    6.79 6.46 6.82 6.68 6.71 JGPF SP: stepout on the 3fe; all else clean
    7.82 7.57 7.64 8.00 7.86 RN SP: turnout on 4t, 3z↓, no combo

    7.14 6.71 7.21 7.04 6.89 JGPF FS: 4t+3t, 3a+3t, 3z, 3a, 3lo, 3fe, 3s+2t
    8.14 7.93 8.18 8.32 8.07 RN FS: 3s, 3t, 4t, 3a, 3lo, 3z, 3s+2t, 2a

    Kovtun was clearly held up on his PCS scores in both SP and FS at RN, or he would have finished much lower than fifth. Amazing that Tarasova holds that much influence over Russian judges.
    Junior comps always have lower PCS. Look at Liza's scores last season. She had much lower PCS at the youth Olympics than she did at GPF or TEB

  7. #287

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    Sofia Biryukova finished 17th of 18 at Nationals - she wrote a blog about her Nationals experience in Sochi for rsport.ru and here is her final entry: http://rsport.ru/blog_rian/20121229/637536136.html
    Excerpt from the beginning via Google Translate:
    Hello dear readers!
    I want to start this post with an apology for his statement and for
    that did not meet your expectations ...
    Perhaps, as you know, at the end of last season I had four fractures. I
    was able to ride until the end of June, and fully comply with all the
    elements in general only after Grand Prix in China. Absolutely not
    wanting to justify myself, I want to say that this season I have not
    myself, cried out of a rut. After analyzing the Russian championship ,
    I realized that I still want to fight and ready for it, you just go
    back to the past itself, and the motivation to prove that I was capable
    of much help in this. Therefore, I strongly ask you not to abuse, I
    think that the best thing to come!
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  8. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Oleg Nilov: "The Ministry of Sports should be involved in resolving the situation with Menshov": http://www.sports.ru/others/figure-s...tml?ext=yandex
    Nilov is the President of the Figure Skating Federation of St. Petersburg where Menshov trains.
    Via Google Translate:
    "I am the only member of the Executive Committee of Russian Figure Skating Federation voted against the decision to include in the national team for the European Championship Maxim Kovtun. I believe that everyone should be decided on sports lines.
    ...
    I might add that we, in preparing an appeal on behalf of the Federation of St. Petersburg to the Russian sports minister Vitaly Mutko with a request to defend the principle of sport in shaping the national team. Still, it is a representation of Russia at the world level. I believe that the Ministry of Sports should include in the resolution of this situation is not fair."

    ETA:
    Mutko: The question of replacing the skater Menshov to discuss Kovtun in January
    Article link in Russian: http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20121229/637615527.html

    Here's an article by Andrei Simonenko (who criticized the federation's decision in his blog - link was posted earlier in this thread) that summarizes the Menshov-Kovtun situation: http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20121228/637515956.html
    Via Google Translate: http://translate.google.com/translat...637515956.html
    How does Nilov think he will be successful with his appeal so long as he was the only member of the Russian Federation's Executive Committee who voted against sending Kovtun to the European Championships and so long as the Federation didn't do anything illegal? While I do believe that giving Kovtun a spot in the Russian team for Euros is utterly unfair to Menshov, I am totally against politicians - read Mutko - being called upon to reverse decisions made by expert bodies. If the Russian figure skating community thinks the Coaching Council is a piece of garbage as Trankov put it, they should try to replace the CC members with people who can make decisions in line with the priciples of sports. JMHO.

    "The owner of the third ticket to the European Championships to be determined by the principle of sport - Mishin said the agency . - And if not for sports, then Gachinski should go to the European Championships. He was the only young Russian skaters, who at the moment can fight elite, including the Japanese. "
    Not sure about that. Gachinski finished behind Oda and Mura at Skate Canada this season and behind Kozuka and Oda at Cup of Russia. And his score at the Russian Nationals doesn't indicate to me that he would be able to fight for the Worlds podium with elite skaters such as Takahashi and Hanyu. Or Chan for that matter.

  9. #289

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    Though Mishin has a point...Gachinski placed higher than Kovtun at Nats.
    "I'm not in this world to live up to your expectations and you're not in this world to live up to mine."

    Bruce Lee

  10. #290
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    Although I don't think Gachinski deserves to go to Euros anymore than Kovtun does, if all they are looking for is youth, then yes, he would deserve to go first, since he too finished higher than Kovtun at nationals; and that is while Gachinski is having a really crappy season.
    I am free of all prejudices. I hate everyone equally.~W. C. Fields

  11. #291

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Sofia Biryukova finished 17th of 18 at Nationals - she wrote a blog about her Nationals experience in Sochi for rsport.ru and here is her final entry: http://rsport.ru/blog_rian/20121229/637536136.html
    Excerpt from the beginning via Google Translate:
    thanks sylvia for that

    so, she just excuses for her performances and 'promises' to fight and come back?
    hell yeah! i love her and will root for her as long as she's out there, go on Sofia!

  12. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moka-Ananas View Post
    Though Mishin has a point...Gachinski placed higher than Kovtun at Nats.
    He certainly has in view of Kovtun! But on the other hand the totally denies the fact that Menshov placed ahead of Gachinski twice this season.

    Looks like another famous coach is now using his political influence to dump menshov – this time for Gachinski. Some people really have no shame

    Personally I find Mishin’s remarks about Gachinski being the only skater able to beat elite ones pretty much laughable taking into account Gachinski’s performances at GP, where he not only lost to elite skates, but almost to any other skaters competing there.

    Maybe it’s really about time that the Ministry of Sports takes a close look at how things work at Russian Figure Skating Federation.

    I adore and respect Tarasova, Mishin, Morozov and their likes for their achievements, but it might be about time to show them some limits as far as politicking of their skaters is concerned. It obviously doesn’t any favours for Russian figure skating, given the current situation it actually led to

    - a scandal being discussed in the press even in international skating forums thus harming Russian Fed’s reputation in general
    - a revolt of Russian skaters against their fed
    - a split within Russian Fed
    - a call for ministry of sports taking action

    which certainly does not benefit skaters in their preparation for Euros and moreover really gives a pretty bad picture of Russian Fed and the influence of certain coaches on their decisions in general.

    Thanks Tarasova – hope it was worth it!

  13. #293
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    The decision might not have made the most sense, but it made some sense in addition to the political aspect. (A year ahead of Sochi, they chose a young, rising starlet over their underachieving last starlet and a journeyman, and are giving him experience in a senior championship.). They just didn't do it by "encouraging" the scores enough to let the results speak for themselves.

    It could be worse, for example, the French Fed where there are no Mishins or Kudryatsevs to counter the Gailhauguets
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  14. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Sofia Biryukova finished 17th of 18 at Nationals - she wrote a blog about her Nationals experience in Sochi for rsport.ru and here is her final entry: http://rsport.ru/blog_rian/20121229/637536136.html
    Excerpt from the beginning via Google Translate:
    Aww. ((Sofia)) Thanks for the excerpt, I love her attitude. Best wishes to her for next year.

  15. #295

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katarzyna View Post
    - a revolt of Russian skaters against their fed
    Eh, I won't consider it a true revolt unless skaters refuse to compete or hop to another country. Anything else is just twitter blabber. Alexander Majorov, anyone? Whatever happened in that twitter rampage case?

  16. #296
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    I would not trust anything Trankov says especially since he is part of Morozov group. I believe Trankov is doing dirty job for morzov especially since kovtun was kicked out of the Morozov group and he is doing really well. On top of that remember Kovtun comment about Morozov was ignored him when he greated him at the Russia cup event or something. So the bad blood between Kovtun and Morozov is very clear. I feel whole issue is Russian skating federation power playing out. I feel actually sorry for Kovtun over Menshov, Kovtun has bright future ahead of him. I hope he kick some ass at the europeans.

  17. #297

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    What is strange is that Trankov and Kovtun seem to be in friendly terms. And it's not only Trankov, Soloviev was also very active in all this,even posing with Menshov and all.And he is no part of Morosov group.

  18. #298

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    Not sure if this has already been posted. Vitaly Mutko Minister of Sports weighs in on the controversy.

    http://www.allsportinfo.ru/index.php?id=67029

  19. #299
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    I think the Russians are looking to the future and that is why Kovtun is going to Euro's. Isn't Menshov about 30?

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    I thought the nomination made a lot of sense.

    (1) Plushenko is a sure-in so long as he is healthy.

    (2) They can only afford to send one of Voronov vs Menshov because they both over rely on jumps and have virtually nothing else to fall back on. Also, they have both skated well and close to clean in the past and still didn't place well. At least Voronov medalled at the GPs and actually beat Menshov by some margin at Natonals.

    (3) the up and comer - between Gachinski who hasn't skated well at all for nearly a full year and doesn't really skate well all that often, and Kovtun who has been undefeated internationally so far this year and who only narrowed lost to Gachinski at Nationals, the choice is clear.

    If Russia regains a spot for next year, I think the cleverest team would be Plushenko and Kovtun, and the Federation is right to work towards that by giving Kovtun senior exposure. If only China would give Yan Han the same chance instead of having those Guan Jinlins and Wu Jialiangs go to 4CCs and place bottom of the top ten for the 10th time.
    Last edited by Marco; 12-30-2012 at 05:35 PM.

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