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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by unicorn View Post
    As for Alexei Mishin, I think he's still promoting his philosophy(or strategy), a skate without jumping mistakes is a good skate no matter how the program components are. He might see that Mao's NHK result is another example of winning by PCS.
    I think he's just politicking for his skater. Nothing more, nothing less.
    Actual bumper sticker series: Jesus is my co-pilot. Satan is my financial advisor. Budha is my therapist. L. Ron Hubbard owes me $50.

  2. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyWarhol View Post
    Im glad the judges were biased towards Mao. About time they favoured one of my favourites!
    More cheating for Mao!


    Down with the judges who gave higher marks to our non-favourites!
    Prosperity makes friends, adversity tries them. – Publilius Syrus

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    I think he's just politicking for his skater. Nothing more, nothing less.
    Whatever it is, it's almost getting to the Olympic season now, let the political war begin.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by unicorn View Post
    As for Alexei Mishin, I think he's still promoting his philosophy(or strategy), a skate without jumping mistakes is a good skate no matter how the program components are. He might see that Mao's NHK result is another example of winning by PCS.
    Well that's the system he lived for many years. And he was able to solidify that belief because his top skaters were all jumpers and winning most of the time.

    Other coaches like Morosov, Carroll and Nicks were able to adapt to COP and milk the system for their skaters' success. Mishin was only able to do so for a certain degree (the elements were COP friendly but not the program). Instead of complaining, perhaps he really should try to work on his skaters' skating (not just jumping). Tuk for example needs to be faster. With his skaters' jumping prowess, if they could also earn high PCS, they could be very competitive and wouldn't need to skate clean and still have to wait for better skaters to make mistakes. Morosov's skaters also had horrible programs but received high PCS because of their speed (Ando, Amodio). MIshin should really work along that path.

  5. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by babayaga View Post
    I would like to attempt to defend Mao's PCS here. She got more or less the same score she got in China, I think it is reasonable. If we go component by component - her skating skills were the same. She did not fall, so she performed the same transitions and choreography. Her interpretation this time was even better since she was better in her timing - Mao was slightly behind the music in China, so she had to rush and left out some detailes there. In Japan, she was right on time and performed everything between the elements as planned.

    I still think Akiko should have won, but from PCS point of view I found Mao's performance to be on the same level as in China.
    But you're defending the PCS, not the win.

    I can't think of any other questionable result where there was pretty much 100% agreement and no debate about whether the skater did/did not deserve his/her placement. Even a few cases which to my mind were perfectly clear had some debate. For example, the Italians World title in 2001 - some argued that Babs's superior skills justified it. Or Yunah Kim's SP scores in 2010, which some defended on the basis of PCS.

    It's interesting, given that Mao is a skater who is highly respected and quite loved by fans worldwide. Even Mao herself appeared to know that she wuz gifted. It's not the same as Oksana versus Nancy -Oksana being technically low as Mao was. But the argument was that Nancy was wooden and lacking in artistry, which isn't something anyone would say about Akiko.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by unicorn View Post
    the Russian Federation wanted to send Plushenko to the Olympics?
    I've read Russian fed wanted to send young Plushy but Mishin insisted Yagudin should go because he was 2nd and Plushy was 3rd at the 1998 Russian Nationals.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glacier cat View Post
    I've read Russian fed wanted to send young Plushy but Mishin insisted Yagudin should go because he was 2nd and Plushy was 3rd at the 1998 Russian Nationals.
    Really? They would rather leave the reigning worlds bronze medallist at home? And didn't Yagudin rocked Cup of Russia that year too?

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Really? They would rather leave the reigning worlds bronze medallist at home? And didn't Yagudin rocked Cup of Russia that year too?
    You are just being sarcasm, right? Sometimes it is difficult to tell

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    But you're defending the PCS, not the win.
    Well isn't it the same thing? Asada had a sizeable lead (over Suzuki) after the short. She didn't need to win the free, she just needed to win overall. So her poor jumping in the free was partly compensated by her short program lead and partly by her non jump elements, GOEs and PCS in the free which weren't all that affected by the insane popping of jumps. I think it's totally justified and the math made sense.

    It's not like Leonova or Amodio scoring high PCS for nothing. Asada actually earned her PCS. It's just unfortunate because the math worked out that way and she was able to barely squeeze in for the win with a poor free skate.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by yaya124 View Post
    You are just being sarcasm, right? Sometimes it is difficult to tell
    ? I am just very surprised to hear that The Rus Fed was even considering leaving Yagudin home for Plushenko when at the time Yagudin was the reigning worlds bronze medallist and had won his GPs and Euros leading to Nagano. And he also placed second at Nationals. Plushenko lost to Yadugin at the GP, at Nationals and at Europeans that season.

    Sending Yagudin over Plushenko is the most natural idea, isn't it?

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    I think he's just politicking for his skater. Nothing more, nothing less.
    Maybe so, and maybe not. Who knows!



    I found another Mishin interview about the Grand Prix Final. In this interview he told the weapon of the finalists.

    http://fsrussia.ru/news/293_aleksej-...niya-borotsya/

    - Can you name the strengths of each of five finalists in the Grand Prix?
    - Yulya Lipnitskaya. Her trump card is the youth and talent. Mao Asada - her strengths are maturity and authority. Akiko Suzuki now represents a balance between the technical and aesthetic side of figure skating. In my view, she is a symbol of balance, so to speak, between the first and second marks. Kiira Korpi - feminine charm and beauty of the figure. Ashley Wagner is the only skater who shows female skating among all these figure skaters,*but the success of her participation at the Grand Prix Final depends on how the technical judges will treat loyally her questionable "dokrutili" jumps.
    However in general, I would say that the opponents should not be underestimated. All these ladies are strong. After all, six strongest skaters in the world participate in the Grand Prix Final.
    Mishin's favorite is obviously Akiko Suzuki

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    ? I am just very surprised to hear that The Rus Fed was even considering leaving Yagudin home for Plushenko when at the time Yagudin was the reigning worlds bronze medallist and had won his GPs and Euros leading to Nagano. And he also placed second at Nationals. Plushenko lost to Yadugin at the GP, at Nationals and at Europeans that season.

    Sending Yagudin over Plushenko is the most natural idea, isn't it?
    I think the time line for me here is a bit mixed, that is why I thought you were being sarcasm.

    Sending Plushenko over Yagudin was never the case as far as 1998 Olympics was in concern, he was too young at the time. And he did not have many experiences in senior competitions.

    I think here people mixed two event: 1998 Olympics and 1998 Worlds
    Yagudin only was placed 5th (or 4th?) in Olympics 1998. Mishin was not happy because Yagudin's lost was sort of related to his own careless about his health (something about going out without drying his hair or ate something wrong, nevertheless he got sick before the LP competition).

    Yagudin himself felt that Mishin was angry at him and in favor of bringing Plushenko instead him going into World 1998 (he mentioned in his autobiography), which is what other poster mentioned above: Mishin actually insisted Yagudin should go, but Mishin brought Plushenko with him in case Kulik would withdrawn.

    The rest you all know, Yagudin won his first World title in 1998, so did Plushenko for his first World medal.
    Last edited by yaya124; 11-29-2012 at 08:16 AM. Reason: wrong info

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Really? They would rather leave the reigning worlds bronze medallist at home? And didn't Yagudin rocked Cup of Russia that year too?
    Really. At least Mishin said so. although am not sure if FSU posters can believe his remark, here i have found that interview

    And I have to say "sorry", I made a mistake. I wrote "Rus fed wanted to send Plushenko, even if Yagudin was 2nd and Plushenko was 3rd at 98 Nats." this is not correct. Sorry it's not '98 Nationals, but '98 Europeans

    http://www.sportsdaily.ru/articles/z...y-proekt-48570

    - Yagudin was strongly jealous of Plushenko?
    - I treated them very balanced. Lyosha (Yagudin) does not know or may not believe, but the head of our Federation Valentin Piseev wanted to send Plushenko to the Olympics in Japan, while Yagudin won the European Championship, and Zhenya (Plushenko) was the second. I defended the principle of sports and said immediately "Yagudin will go to the Olympics."
    I think Mishin is a man who has been easily misunderstood

    By the way I don't know why people started attacking Plushy here. Because of the title "Plushenko's coach"?
    So what do people think about others who told Akiko was robbed? Why people don't attack their family or friend? Because others don't have a thread that is named "xxx's family Slams Skating Judges"?
    I saw not a few people are talking about the judging at NHK. But nobody is flamed as it happens here.
    Last edited by Glacier cat; 11-29-2012 at 09:04 AM.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glacier cat View Post
    Really.

    And I have to say "sorry", I made a mistake. I wrote "Rus fed wanted to send Plushenko, even if Yagudin was 2nd and Plushenko was 3rd at 98 Nats." this is not correct. Sorry it's not '98 Nationals, but '98 Europeans
    No, at 98 Euros Yagudin was first and Plushenko second. At 98 Nats Kulik was first, Yagudin second and Plushy third.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciocio View Post
    No, at 98 Euros Yagudin was first and Plushenko second. At 98 Nats Kulik was first, Yagudin second and Plushy third.
    I made FSU confusing again.. Thanks for correction

  16. #116
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    http://www.sportsdaily.ru/articles/z...y-proekt-48570

    - Yagudin was strongly jealous of Plushenko?
    - I treated them very balanced. Lyosha (Yagudin) does not know or may not believe, but the head of our Federation Valentin Piseev wanted to send Plushenko to the Olympics in Japan, while Yagudin won the European Championship, and Zhenya (Plushenko) was the second. I defended the principle of sports and said immediately "Yagudin will go to the Olympics."

    This is what I read too....

  17. #117

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    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    But you're defending the PCS, not the win.

    I can't think of any other questionable result where there was pretty much 100% agreement and no debate about whether the skater did/did not deserve his/her placement. Even a few cases which to my mind were perfectly clear had some debate. For example, the Italians World title in 2001 - some argued that Babs's superior skills justified it. Or Yunah Kim's SP scores in 2010, which some defended on the basis of PCS.

    It's interesting, given that Mao is a skater who is highly respected and quite loved by fans worldwide. Even Mao herself appeared to know that she wuz gifted. It's not the same as Oksana versus Nancy -Oksana being technically low as Mao was. But the argument was that Nancy was wooden and lacking in artistry, which isn't something anyone would say about Akiko.
    What Marco said - I thought most complaints were that Mao was held up by her PCS. Also, I think the reason why not too many Mao fans are defending Mao's win here is not because we think she won unfairly, but because many of us don't like to see her win like that anyway, even if it's justifiable. I don't want to speak for everybody, but this is my general impression.

  18. #118

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    Yadda yadda yadda, if he's talking about Mao winning at NHK, I agree with him, and thank him for speaking up. But we've seen this before, and we'll see it again. It's nothing new.

    Just as long as we don't see it at the Olympcs (which we won't), I'm okay with it. That's the one event that has stayed pretty much legit over the years.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glacier cat View Post
    Really. At least Mishin said so. although am not sure if FSU posters can believe his remark, here i have found that interview
    Now at least we know where this delusional story came from.

    And I remember he mentioned couple of times before the 2002 Olympics, he made it like he helped Yagudin got the 1998 Olympic spot. But whoever knows their competing records and with a normal brain would believe that story? Not only he won the bronze medal in 97 WC, was one of the boys contributed a little something to that two spots, but also was strong all the way through the following season. The Russian Fed had two gold medal contenders and they wanted to send Plushenko?
    Yagudin used to say that some dramas were created by Alexei Mishin, I sort of believe him now.
    Last edited by unicorn; 11-29-2012 at 09:16 PM.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by unicorn View Post
    Now at least we know where this delusional story came from.

    And I remember he mentioned couple of times before the 2002 Olympics, he made it like he helped Yagudin got the 1998 Olympic spot. But whoever knows their competing records and with a normal brain would believe that story? Not only he won the bronze medal in 97 WC, was one of the boys contributed a little something to that two spots, but also was strong all the way through the following season. The Russian Fed had two gold medal contenders and they wanted to send Plushenko?
    Yagudin used to say that some dramas were created by Alexei Mishin, I sort of believe him now.
    I am inclined to think this story is as true as the one Mishin told us about how he taught the 4A to Yagudin with good results.

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