U.S. Ladies [#6]: "Swaggering with the S'Wagner" et al. into 2013

[jjane45]

So what happened to the icenetwork headline --- "Wobbly Wagner outlasts glittering Gold in Omaha. It wasn't her best skate, but Ashley Wagner earned just enough points to retain her U.S. title. Gracie Gold was..."

I suppose they removed it quickly because of complaints?

[victoriaheidi]

1. Jenny, I expected more from you.
2. Ok, I get it about Ashley Cain. Still...she hasn't had that great a season, unfortunately.
3. I second Tara Lipinski! She is actually a really good commentator.
4. ITA that USFS manages to use social media and internet content very well. VERY well. USAG should take a leaf from USFS' book! And an IN app would be very nice, as it shows up pretty poorly on a phone (and not so well on an iPad, either).

ETA:

So what happened to the icenetwork headline --- "Wobbly Wagner outlasts glittering Gold in Omaha. It wasn't her best skate, but Ashley Wagner earned just enough points to retain her U.S. title. Gracie Gold was..."

I suppose they removed it quickly because of complaints?

It's still there.

[jjane45]

It's still there.

I read about it on another message board but got confused not finding it on google except in snapshot. So it was within a flash but not the actual article, thanks for your reply.

[Vagabond]

Re. the video posted earlier - The only good point they talked about was when they discussed the scoring system confusing fans (putting the snark aside). This to me is a legit concern and I think the entire NJS needs to be re-thought in regards as to what gets rewarded and what gets punished. When you have even expert commentators struggling to explain results, or constantly miscalculating scores, something is very wrong....

Did you ever watch figure skating competitions under 6.0?

Expert commentators struggled mightily to explain results all the time, particularly when one skater's marks resulted in a reshuffling of the rankings of other skaters who had skated earlier. And even NBC is finally doing the work educating the audience that it should have been doing years ago; Andrea Joyce had a very good piece today about why it may be better to fall on a fully-rotated quadruple jump than to land a triple.

It's a lot easier to understand that a Free Skate that earns a Total Segment Score of 121.36 is better than one that earns a TSS of 117.18 than it is to understand whether a Free Skate with technical marks of 5.6 5.6. 5.4 5.7 5.5 5.6 5.4 5.6 5.6 and artistic marks of 5.7 5.6 5.5 5.6 5.8 5.7 5.5 5.6 5.7 is better or worse than a Free Skate with technical marks of 5.5 5.7 5.6 5.4 5.5 5.5 5.8 5.6 5.6 and artistic marks of 5.8 5.6 5.6 5.7 5.5 5.5 5.6 5.7 5.7.

[kwanfan1818]

There are still a few internationals where skaters can get the minimum scores, but USFS would have to beg the host for an exception to the deadline. If USFS stated an intention to send a Ladies skater to Challenge Cup, the week before Jr. Worlds in the Netherlands, then they could send Edmunds, since the deadline for sending in names is 1 February. It's Senior Ladies there, but Edmonds could either add a CH sequence to the end of her Junior FS, or, theoretically, she might be able to simply skate her Junior FS and take the time deduction if this wouldn't disqualify her, because the total score is irrelevant if she can make the Jr. Worlds TES FS minimum (35) without the CH sequence. Milan isn't far to travel from The Hague. Senior Ladies is 21-22 Feb, with exhibitions on 23, and Jr. Worlds Ladies doesn't begin until Friday, 1 Mar.

ETA: I had read something about the Ladies' teams not being posted, and didn't realize they were and this is moot

Did you ever watch figure skating competitions under 6.0?

"She's so cute, I could pinch her cheeks!"

"She has a twin sister in skating!"

"She got 800 on her SAT's!"

"He's deferred Harvard for a year!"

"They have a cat named 'Wimpy'!"

[Fabrichnova]

I only watched the first few minutes, but when they were talking about how Ashley would be a perennial bronze/pewter medalist if she had to compete against Kwan/Cohen/etc., I couldn't help but think "wasn't Jenny a perennial bronze/pewter medalist herself?"

She pointed to herself when that comment was made, so it was pretty obvious she knows what level she was at as a competitive skater.

[judgejudy27]

Jenny is lucky she peaked in an era (2003-2005) where there was no depth after Kwan and Cohen at all. Today there might not be the super star but there is a ton more depth than there was then. Jenny wouldnt even be the bronze and pewter medalist she was those few years, if lucky she would be the Mrs. 6th and 7th place she was in 2000-2002 before the U.S ladies depth fell off. Gao is a better skater than she ever was and she cant get up above 5th at Nationals. With those fugly hideous jumps, and blah skating, Kirk would get nowhere today even without the big star in her way (it doesnt take a big star to put her down, what is her best Worlds result, 15th place, lol). Sorry if my post sounded harsh but it seemed like a fair rebuttal to her own ill spirited comments, and it is completely true.

[falling_dance]

if lucky she would be the Mrs. 6th and 7th place she was in 2000-2002 before the U.S ladies depth fell off.

In fairness to Kirk, she was the pewter medalist in 2001 and finished 5th in 2002, making it to the World Championships in the latter year.

[judgejudy27]

In fairness to Kirk, she was the pewter medalist in 2001 and finished 5th in 2002, making it to the World Championships in the latter year.

Yes she came 5th in 02 over Anne Patrice McDonough on a 5-4 split after Kirk skated 2 clean programs with 7 triples in the long, and Anne Patrice made 4 mistakes in her LP, LOL! In 2001 she came 4th after Cohen and a couple other contenders had to withdraw from Nationals. She was really the 6th or 7th U.S girl every year until Hughes retired, McDonough burnt out and soon retired, and Nikidinov's career fell apart with major injuries.

[falling_dance]

In 2001 she came 4th after Cohen and a couple other contenders had to withdraw from Nationals.

You mean the ones she beat at 2000 Junior Worlds?

Also, what Fabrichnova said in #726.

[olympic]

USFS' press release is out - ladies' assignments:

LADIES
2013 World Championships
Gracie Gold
Ashley Wagner

Alternate 1 - Agnes Zawadzki
Alternate 2 - Christina Gao
Alternate 3 - Mirai Nagasu

2013 Four Continents Championships
Christina Gao
Gracie Gold
Agnes Zawadzki

Alternate 1 - Mirai Nagasu
Alternate 2 - Caroline Zhang
Alternate 3 - Ashley Cain

2013 World Junior Championships
Samantha Cesario
Courtney Hicks
Yasmin Siraj

Alternate 1 - Angela Wang
Alternate 2 - Hannah Miller
Alternate 3 - Leah Keiser

Thanks for posting, Sylvia -

Random thoughts.

Ashley - Per my earlier post, I'm glad Ashley is sitting out 4CC's. It's too soon to travel that distance to Japan (the Lion's Den) and face a strong Mao considering all of her strange circumstances lately. Let her hunker down and get ready for March. She WILL need a 3-3 in the SP and the 2x-3t in the LP, though because it looks like Yu Na and Mao are in their best shape since 2010, plus Carolina and at least one of the 'Russian Babies' will be a real challenge.

Gracie - She MUST go to 4CC's to get a sense of where she stands in the eyes of Intl. judges against the strong Japanese ladies and Kaitlyn Osmond prior to Worlds.

I'm very happy that Christina finally moves beyond Nationals and Jr. Worlds w/ her assignment to 4CC's.

Junior ladies -

Happy about Samantha Cesario getting an assignment to Jr. Worlds, as she will age out this year. She's too good for the USFSA to not invest in and give her the opportunity to get some points in preparation for her automatic promotion to Seniors next season. Yasmin and Courtney get the assigments based on their finishes at Nationals which is the USFSA's time-honored tradition. Angela needs to learn to deal with the SP and this is a light wake-up call.

BTW, Scott mentioned in the broadcast that Yasmin has suffered injuries the past couple of years. This is probably what kept her down and hopefully, we will see her full potential now that she's healed.
All around, smart moves by the USFSA.

[Philly2034]

There are a lot of eerie similarities between Kimmie Meissner, Alissa Czisny, and Ashley Wagner.
In 2006-2007, Kimmie won a major senior international (4CC) and nationals, and placed 4th at worlds (with a score of 180.23).
In 2007-2008, she did decently on the GP Circuit, but then went to the GP Final and didn't do well.
In the 2008, nationals, she didn't perform her best, but still was good enough to go to worlds.
At 2008 worlds, she performed poorly.
By the 2008-2009 season, her career was basically over.

In 2010-2011, Alissa won a major senior international (GPF) and nationals, and placed 5th at worlds (with a score of 182.25).
In 2011-2012, she did decently on the GP Circuit, but then went to the GP Final and didn't do well.
In the 2012, nationals, she didn't perform her best, but still was good enough to go to worlds.
At 2012 worlds, she performed poorly.
By the 2012-2013 season, her career was basically over.

In 2011-2012, Ashley won a major senior international (4CC) and nationals, and placed 4th at worlds (with a score of 176.77.).
In 2012-2013, she did decently on the GP Circuit, but then went to the GP Final and didn't do well.
In the 2013, nationals, she didn't perform her best, but still was good enough to go to worlds.
At 2013 worlds, she performed______.

[leafygreens]

This is what I don't get. People are mad that Ashley won with 2 falls in the LP instead of Gracie winning with a fall and a pop in the SP.

Yet, the men's winner performed perfectly, and people are complaining that Jeremy should have won because no way will Max get the 3rd spot back.

A lot of contradiction going on.

[RD]

The interesting thing is that while all 3 had a rough skate at the GPF, only Wagner's effort was good enough for a medal (silver). In the other two instances the skater finished last...

[Mayra]

"She's so cute, I could pinch her cheeks!"

"She has a twin sister in skating!"

"She got 800 on her SAT's!"

"He's deferred Harvard for a year!"

"They have a cat named 'Wimpy'!"

Minus the cheeks bit, nothing has changed.

I'm paraphrasing from the broadcast on Saturday but...

"She got a 100(!!) on math in her SATs"

"Meeeeooowww" (It's still unclear who made the cat sounds, Scott or Sandra.)

"She goes to Harvard and hasn't been to any of their games. Not even Harvard vs Yale."

Gracie Gold fluff complete with twin sister mention.

It's like they have a template of that they all follow.

[IceAlisa]

"Meeeeooowww" (It's still unclear who made the cat sounds, Scott or Sandra.)

"

It was Scott. Christina will never live down that one. I can see her Harvard classmates meowing at her for a long time.

I don't particularly mind the fluffs and background mentions. I really don't care what they blather about as long as they keep it short, which they don't.

[minignome]

Quite honestly, my eyeballs are getting strained from all the rolling I do when I hear how hard COP is to understand. It's NOT. In the US we just have at least one commentator who would rather screech and gush than do his homework. The commentators have the planned element layout for the skaters programs. The elements all have a base value (and gee, yes, a jumps base value is 10% more if done in the second half of the program). How complex can it be to say ahead of time, skater A's planned program has a base technical value of 61 points. Skater B has a base value of 54 points. Point out a couple of times during the broadcast that there is a mandatory deduction of 1 point for a fall, and they can lose up to an additional 3 points based on grade of execution, and that the skater can get up to 3 points based if they execute the element perfectly. That way it's perfectly understandable if skater A has a more difficult program planned, has one fall and does everything else well, they can still have a higher technical score than skater B's program where there are no falls, but under rotations, shaky landings/traveling spins etc. I'll give you that PCS is a quagmire that they probably can't be easily explained, but the technical piece is not rocket science.

[victoriaheidi]

I don't get 6.0. At all. I was too young during SLC to understand what happened then, too. At 8, it just didn't make sense to me. By the time I was old enough to grasp scoring, it was IJS, and I don't understand anything else.

Where I can see the IJS problems cropping up is in levels (spins/footwork) and PCS.

[chipso1]

She pointed to herself when that comment was made, so it was pretty obvious she knows what level she was at as a competitive skater.

Thanks! I had it open in a different tab when I was browsing FSU, so I just listened to the audio of it.

[query5]

saw video of gracie and ashley free programs.
ashley was held up because her 2 falls not only should have been ur. but downgraded as well
hopefully she will do better at worlds,
good luck to all