U.S. Ladies [#6]: "Swaggering with the S'Wagner" et al. into 2013

[kwanatic]

Good summary thanks. Unless someone is experienced with the media, staying under the radar is not a bad thing.

Especially when you haven't really done that much...

The media always made it sound as if Gracie has been on fire this season...I was confused half the time b/c I'm like, "have they been watching the same competitions I've been watching?" Gracie's potential is why people are so quick to proclaim she'll be great and deliver. It's obvious from practices she's fully capable of skating very well. But imagine how many people would be national champion if it was determined by what happens on the practice ice...

[Skittl1321]

Is there a just up from juniors skater who is being ignored in favor of Gracie? I always felt bad for Mirai because Caroline was so loudly proclaimed as skating's next savior. And then Mirai just really outshone her as a senior.

[Sylvia]

Obviously I'm in the minority but I love reading positive articles on up and coming skaters. Some have unrealistic expectations and some are more down to earth, but they help spotlight deserving athletes and the sport. They also help generate excitement, which the sport needs. Give me these type of articles over Hersh's doom and gloom any day of the week.

That's why I try and post notable articles/interviews in this thread on as many different U.S. ladies as I can.

ETA 2 articles I posted in the US Nationals forum yesterday:
Ashley Cain: http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/01...y-cain-17.html
Sisters Morgan and Mariah (2013 Junior silver medalist) Bell - this the third consecutive Nationals in which they have both competed: http://www.omaha.com/article/2013012...701249912/1685

Ditto for Gracie and youtube. I thought her 3/3/3 attempts were and fun to see. We get so little skating on US television that I enjoy seeing the many tricks people are attempting in practice. I don't think she is worthy of pity for any reason so I'm not sure why people are throwing a pity party for her. She just made her senior Nationals debut and hit some bumps on the road. She skates exactly as what she is. A senior skater just up from juniors. She's got room to grow and the time to do it. JMO

Well said. I don't see a pity party going on either -- some people come across to me as almost gloating that she didn't skate well. I feel badly for anyone who didn't perform up to her high expectations last night (like Angela Wang, to cite another example).

[olympic]

It was actually closer to 50 than 49. (It was 49.99.)

She has no one to blame but herself for under-rotating three of her four jumps. If she had done her elements as planned, she would have received a score of about 59 or 60, which seems reasonable, even generous, given the fact that she still hasn't gotten her basic skating up to the level of Wagner or Nagasu.

See Sylvia's post. Like her, I didn't agree with the UR/downgrade calls on the 3l-3l. I should've been clearer about why I thought Caroline was hosed.

[algonquin]

Especially when you haven't really done that much...

The media always made it sound as if Gracie has been on fire this season...I was confused half the time b/c I'm like, "have they been watching the same competitions I've been watching?" Gracie's potential is why people are so quick to proclaim she'll be great and deliver. It's obvious from practices she's fully capable of skating very well. But imagine how many people would be national champion if it was determined by what happens on the practice ice...

or World champions? Too many to name...

[query5]

to high ashley skated with mistakes that wasn't noticed

[Sylvia]

Such as?

ETA direct link to the SP detailed protocols: http://www.usfigureskating.org/leade...0/SEGM001.html

[Theatregirl1122]

Is there a just up from juniors skater who is being ignored in favor of Gracie? I always felt bad for Mirai because Caroline was so loudly proclaimed as skating's next savior. And then Mirai just really outshone her as a senior.

I've always felt bad for Caroline because the hype on her was so unreasonable and it really was obvious to most people that her technique was not going to hold up. And everyone jumped off of Caroline's bandwagon pretty quickly. Mirai has always done better without all eyes on her. She's probably lucky that she got to stay out of the hype machine for a little while. Although it only lasted until she won her National title. In the end, though, I think it was mostly Ashley who got lost behind the Mirai/Caroline/Rachael hype. And it's given her the time to grow up and mature into the skater she is today. Which seems to have worked out rather well.

If anything, I wonder if one of the other Ladies who aren't being put under the microscope will turn out to succeed far beyond Gracie and be grateful for the time she got to make her mistakes out of the spotlight. Or maybe Gracie will still learn to flourish under the pressure. But either way, I don't think she got the better end of the deal.

[Vagabond]

See Sylvia's post. Like her, I didn't agree with the UR/downgrade calls on the 3l-3l. I should've been clearer about why I thought Caroline was hosed.

It's always problematic second-guessing the technical panel when it does, in fact, call a jump as under-rotated or downgraded unless one either has the same view in the arena or has viewed the separate feed that the panel gets to see. A jump may look fully rotated on the broadcast camera or even from some seats in the arena, but the panel doesn't use the broadcast camera. At least two of the three people on the panel thought that combination was a 3R<+3R<<, and the GOE of -1.80 suggests that the judges agreed with them.

If I am not mistaken, Zhang has never been credited with a fully rotated triple loop on the back end of her 3R+3R combination. :shrug:

[Skittl1321]

Theatregirl- Yeah, I agree with you about Caroline- I have felt badly for her in years past, but not at the beginning (possibly because I prefered Mirai as a junior and thought she deserved some credit.) Being in the spotlight does make it difficult to mature as a senior. Maybe Gracie not doing so well her first year as a senior will ultimately be better for her, because it will take some pressure off.

I have to say, I would have never expected Ashley to be the leading lady coming into the Olympic year. You're right about the Mirai/Caroline/Rachael hype taking all eyes off her (though to me, the 4th place finish at the Olympics for Mirai meant the hype was meaningful, but I'm not a 'only medals matter' kind of fan. 4th place at the Olympics is huge.)

[brightphoton]

If I am not mistaken, Zhang has never been credited with a fully rotated triple loop on the back end of her 3R+3R combination. :shrug:

Caroline was credited with a fully rotated 3Lo+3Lo at the 2012 4CCs, but she had a few negative GOEs due to a fall on the second loop.

[kwanatic]

If I am not mistaken, Zhang has never been credited with a fully rotated triple loop on the back end of her 3R+3R combination. :shrug:

Yes she has. At 4CC last year she got full credit for the rotation even though she stepped out of it.

http://www.isuresults.com/results/fc..._SP_Scores.pdf

ETA: Brightphoton beat me to it! It wasn't a fall though, just a step out but she still received full credit...

[olympic]

It's always problematic second-guessing the technical panel when it does, in fact, call a jump as under-rotated or downgraded unless one either has the same view in the arena or has viewed the separate feed that the panel gets to see. A jump may look fully rotated on the broadcast camera or even from some seats in the arena, but the panel doesn't use the broadcast camera. At least two of the three people on the panel thought that combination was a 3R<+3R<<, and the GOE of -1.80 suggests that the judges agreed with them.

If I am not mistaken, Zhang has never been credited with a fully rotated triple loop on the back end of her 3R+3R combination. :shrug:

Of course. I'm definitely not a tech specialist. But, I was looking at her feet during the 3-3l, watching the youtube clip, and had a different opinion on the landing. Not that my opinion matters all that much, though

[orbitz]

The media always made it sound as if Gracie has been on fire this season...

Well ...Gracie's exhibition number on the TODAY show last month was to the Alicia Key's song "Girl On Fire" . I'm pretty sure it was a calculated choice to pick that song.

[Vagabond]

Of course. I'm definitely not a tech specialist. But, I was looking at her feet during the 3-3l, watching the youtube clip, and had a different opinion on the landing. Not that my opinion matters all that much, though

Your opinion was that she was "robbed," which implies that the technical panel wasn't doing its job properly.

[smarts1]

Nagasu earned the fourth highest short program score ever given to a Senior Lady at U.S. Nationals since the ladies' short program was reduced from eight to seven elements in 2010-2011. (Higher scores: Wagner and Zawadzki tonight; Zawadzki in 2012; none in 2011). I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the judges weren't thinking about "leaving room."

Unless you're saying that since all nine judges did not give Nagasu +3GOE x7elements and 10.0 x5 PCS, they were leaving room for other skaters?

The first year that Junior Worlds was held after U.S. Nationals was 2000. Since 2000, six Junior Ladies' Champions have been sent to Junior Worlds; seven Junior Ladies' Champions have not been sent to Junior Worlds. The Junior Ladies' Champion does not always go to Junior Worlds.

Although Zhang is past the age of consent in Nebraska, I believe that the action you suggest would be a violation of both U.S. Figure Skating's Code of Ethics and Code of Conduct (GR 1.01-1.04).

As long as we made it this far...Do. Or do not. There is no "try."

Um, and that's why Agnes got a higher PCS for her SP than Nagasu?

[smarts1]

Your opinion was that she was "robbed," which implies that the technical panel wasn't doing its job properly.

Most of the time, the technical panel is very fair, but on some rare occasions, the technical panel has not done its jobs properly. Technical panels at various events have made some questionable and bizarre calls. And some of them obviously seem to be political/personal. Remember Yuna's downgrade on her triple toe at the 2009 GPF? And the two flips that were downgraded at 2010 Olympics? I suspect Caroline's was the same.

[olympic]

Your opinion was that she was "robbed," which implies that the technical panel wasn't doing its job properly.

In this case, I don't think they were. Maybe borderline rotations tip one way for favored skaters and the other way for skaters that are 'out of favor'. Whatever the case, I don't think the call was proper.

[Alex Forrest]

In this case, I don't think they were. Maybe borderline rotations tip one way for favored skaters and the other way for skaters that are 'out of favor'. Whatever the case, I don't think the call was proper.

What started this call to arms about slight URs getting dinged so badly?? I figure it was so that a Sarah Hughes type would never ever get close to a podium again, but as far as anyone else, I didn't have that much of a problem with URs with other skaters. And let's face it, Sarah Hughes's URs were egregious and often. Slutskaya tended to UR her back end triple, but I really can't understand Zhang's first 3R being UR'd. It should just be reflected in the GOE, which it already is. You lose points for the UR, lose even more for GOE for a credited double, and it just seems too much.

And 'in favor' skaters it seems do get the benefit versus out of favor ones.

[judgejudy27]

Agnes had a good skate minus the fall on the 2A. Her elements were all level 3s and 4s whereas Ashley's levels are actually lower. Her base value was higher than Mirai's as well...

To be honest, I was wondering (b/c they were taking so long with her score) if the judges were contemplating giving Agnes the lead to take the pressure off of Ashley. I'm okay with Agnes being 2nd b/c it's highly unlikely she will stay there. Ashley is a strong FS skater and Mirai has been surprisingly solid in the FS in her last two competitions. Agnes is known for botching the FS.

I think Ashley will do enough to hang on to her lead, Mirai will float up to 2nd with a solid performance and Agnes will slip from 2nd to 3rd, or maybe even 4th.

I wouldnt be so sure. Agnes has to do a strong LP sometime. She is too talented to keep messing it up. I wouldnt be surprised if she finally does and holds Nagasu off for 2nd, or even wins if Wagner has some problems.

I wish all 3 could go to Worlds, hopefully those 3 will be the Sochi Olympic team.

Zhang`s score was disgusting. They might as well held up a sign `retire now`.