Retrospective: The 1988 Olympics

[Erin]

These would have been my SP and LP placings in Calgary for the ladies event:

SP: 1. Ito 5.9 tech, 5.8 art
2. Thomas 5.8 tech, 5.8 art
3. Kadavy 5.7 tech, 5.9 art
4. Witt 5.6 tech, 5.9 art
5. Manley 5.6 tech, 5.7 art
6. Trenary 5.5 tech, 5.7 art

LP: 1. Ito 6.0 tech, 5.9 art
2. Manley 5.9 tech, 5.8 art
3. Witt 5.7 tech, 5.9 art
4. Trenary 5.6, 5.8 art
5. Thomas 5.6 tech, 5.7 art

I would agree with the long program placements, but would have the SP as 1. Kadavy, 2. Ito, 3. Thomas, 4. Trenary, 5. Witt, 6. Manley. Although I could go either way on Ito vs. Kadavy, Thomas vs. Trenary, and Witt vs. Manley. I'm always surprised that people today make such a big deal of Trenary's slightly wobbly combo. I know that back in the day, emphasis was placed on the required jump, which was the double loop, but I'd still have a triple flip-double loop with a slight lean forward over a triple toe or sal with a double loop. If anything, the difficulty of the triple flip, which was so rarely performed in 1988, should have been more impressive back then.

I'm curious as to whether Kadavy would have still withdrawn if she'd been marked more fairly in the SP and was in medal contention. Even as it was, I'm surprised she didn't try to gut it out, although if it was a stomach type of flu, I can see not wanting to have issues in such a public arena (no pun intended). I don't think that I'd call her princessy in either event. She was never a good pressure skater, but I doubt that anyone who is princessy could make her professional career last as long (or maintain her jumps as long) as Kadavy did.

[TwizzlerS]

Perhaps we should start a new thread about your favorite conspiracy theories . They're always interesting. . Why else would we have all these emoticons?

[Mafke]

I always assumed the skaters dressed up for figures. Guess not.

They do dress up in roller skating

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoheaYv2OLw

bonus: fall! at 0.21 (doing the loop on a right back inside edge)

[Vash01]

They do dress up in roller skating

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoheaYv2OLw

bonus: fall! at 0.21 (doing the loop on a right back inside edge)

I don't see how they could get edges in roller skating. Funny that they have figures competitions in Roller skating but not in Figure skating.

[essence_of_soy]

I don't see how they could get edges in roller skating. Funny that they have figures competitions in Roller skating but not in Figure skating.

It puzzles me how judges can score roller skating figures when there's nothing to see once the skaters are done.

[leesaleesa]

I don't care for her skating, but I love Katarina ruminating on how she had to go early and show them how it's done, wondering if she had the chutzpah to do whatever combination, thinking about her triple Rittberger (loop?) and finding time in the middle of all that thinking to flirt with seven men.

[Maofan7]

I don't care for her skating, but I love Katarina ruminating on how she had to go early and show them how it's done, wondering if she had the chutzpah to do whatever combination, thinking about her triple Rittberger (loop?) and finding time in the middle of all that thinking to flirt with seven men.

Your absolutely right. The loop jump is also called a "Rittberger" after Werner Rittberger, the person who invented it in 1910. Hence, the abbreviation 3R for a Triple Loop

The axel (Axel Paulsen), the lutz (Alois Lutz), and the salchow (Ulrich Salchow), are obviously still known by their inventors names. The flip, like the loop, used to be. The flip was invented by Bruce Mapes, and used to be known as a "Mapes". Ironically, Bruce Mapes also invented the toe loop. However, as far as I know, that jump has never been known as a "Mapes" as that name had already been given to the flip. Another irony, however, is that in artistic roller skating, the toe loop is known as a "Mapes"

[TwizzlerS]

Jill Trenary incorporated half-Mapes into her program or at least that's what I called them since I was a roller skater before I was a figure skater. https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...EmxAQ_c#t=100s

[judgejudy27]

I would agree with the long program placements, but would have the SP as 1. Kadavy, 2. Ito, 3. Thomas, 4. Trenary, 5. Witt, 6. Manley. Although I could go either way on Ito vs. Kadavy, Thomas vs. Trenary, and Witt vs. Manley. I'm always surprised that people today make such a big deal of Trenary's slightly wobbly combo. I know that back in the day, emphasis was placed on the required jump, which was the double loop, but I'd still have a triple flip-double loop with a slight lean forward over a triple toe or sal with a double loop. If anything, the difficulty of the triple flip, which was so rarely performed in 1988, should have been more impressive back then.

I'm curious as to whether Kadavy would have still withdrawn if she'd been marked more fairly in the SP and was in medal contention. Even as it was, I'm surprised she didn't try to gut it out, although if it was a stomach type of flu, I can see not wanting to have issues in such a public arena (no pun intended). I don't think that I'd call her princessy in either event. She was never a good pressure skater, but I doubt that anyone who is princessy could make her professional career last as long (or maintain her jumps as long) as Kadavy did.

In hindsight it is pretty clear the podium was always going to be Witt, Thomas, and Manley in some order unless Manley really pulled out a total stinker on par with her 87 Worlds LP effort. I feel sorry for the other contenders who in retrospect never really stood a chance no matter what of getting on the podium.

[Mafke]

It puzzles me how judges can score roller skating figures when there's nothing to see once the skaters are done.

Did you look at the video?
The skaters follow lines painted on the floor.
They're judged partly on how close they stay on the line (ideally all four wheels should always straddle the line) and on speed and posture. Iused to think that ice figures would have benefitted from two separate marks, one for the tracings and the other for speed and posture.

[Vash01]

In hindsight it is pretty clear the podium was always going to be Witt, Thomas, and Manley in some order unless Manley really pulled out a total stinker on par with her 87 Worlds LP effort. I feel sorry for the other contenders who in retrospect never really stood a chance no matter what of getting on the podium.

Before the 1988 Olympics, Manley was considered one of the skaters competing for the bronze, others being Kadavy and Trenary. It was a foregone conclusion that 1-2 would be Witt & Thomas in any order. Manley had struggled earlier, but at the 1988 Olympics she delivered two solid performances, which surprised even her. She really threw a wrench in the Thmas-Witt drama by skating great in the LP, which put even more pressure on Thomas. It meant gold or bronze, and not gold or silver for Debi.

[essence_of_soy]

Did you look at the video?
The skaters follow lines painted on the floor.
They're judged partly on how close they stay on the line (ideally all four wheels should always straddle the line) and on speed and posture. Iused to think that ice figures would have benefitted from two separate marks, one for the tracings and the other for speed and posture.

Yes, I watched the video. But thanks for clearing up that mystery for me.

I guess because I was comparing the judging process to ice skating, ice skating judges would study the skater's tracings very intently once they were done. Not so much, as they were doing them.

[briancoogaert]

AAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh, winter olympic memories has disappeared : http://winter-olympic-memories.com/index.htm

Does anyone know if this site is up on another link ?

[Mafke]

winter olympic memories has disappeared

bad, bad, bad, bad bad bad bad, this is very bad

[judgejudy27]

Before the 1988 Olympics, Manley was considered one of the skaters competing for the bronze, others being Kadavy and Trenary.

Yes this was true BEFORE the Olympics but after the short program it was clear Manley was a lock for the podium barring a major meltdown in the LP with Kadavy and Trenary having no chance, and that she was even a threat to place higher. In the SP she was very close to beating Thomas who skated excellently even with an easier combination and two bobbles. Then the figures results with Witt and Manley who are both poor in figures finishing above Trenary and Kadavy who are strong in the phase, and it was clear all around there the judges were going and that was a certain podium of Witt, Thomas, and Manley in some order barring a Manley meltdown (Thomas was already too far ahead to lose a medal with a meltdown by that point).

[Proustable]

If Ito had won both the short and long programs, could she have medalled? I'm still unclear of that (assuming the order of the other skaters/programs stays the same except with Ito pushing them down one spot)?

[judgejudy27]

If Ito had won both the short and long programs, could she have medalled? I'm still unclear of that (assuming the order of the other skaters/programs stays the same except with Ito pushing them down one spot)?

Thomas factored points:

2nd in figures: 1.2
3rd in short: 1.2
4th in long: 4.0
Total: 6.4

Ito factored points:

10th in figures: 6.0
1st in short: 0.4
1st in long: 1.0
Total: 7.4

Thomas would have had to lose the LP portion to Trenary for Ito to medal (she beat Trenary in the LP by a 5-4 split).

[judgejudy27]

duplicate post.

[Coco]

Yes this was true BEFORE the Olympics but after the short program it was clear Manley was a lock for the podium barring a major meltdown in the LP with Kadavy and Trenary having no chance, and that she was even a threat to place higher.

But a Manley Meltdown was not a rare occurrence. Trenary definitely had a chance for a medal.

[judgejudy27]

But a Manley Meltdown was not a rare occurrence. Trenary definitely had a chance for a medal.

In retrospect she didnt though since with how Manley skated and was scored in all phases, and how Thomas and Trenary were being scored they didnt have a prayer of coming close to a medal. Even Thomas with a LP meltdown was well out of their reach, for instance Kadavy wouldnt have even medaled had she won the LP phase and Thomas been pushed down to 5th. Trenary would have had to win the LP phase, which of course she wasnt capable of doing.

Yeah I agree before the LP there was always the hope Manley would have a LP like Canadians and land 0 or 1 triples, in which case there would be a medal chance for either of them, but that was their only hope of a medal at that point.