Retrospective: The 1988 Olympics

[skatesindreams]

Her interview is at 4:20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BwT35ohUAE

[VIETgrlTerifa]

I didn't think there was a detailed report about Kwan's try-out.

Kwan must've been a brilliant actress because she looked seriously devastated during that practice session in Torino.

Also, Papa Hughes wouldn't have had a claim against naming Kwan to the team since it was within the USFS rules and there was set precedent for them to make that decision.

[kwanette]

But was she really? By your logic you are stating that Witt was the third best in the world at figures, and really..... Witt wasn't. I still hold that Kadavy and Trenary were ahead of Witt (and Thomas) at figures, and for some unknown reason (read, POLITIK) were placed well below them. Trenary and Kadavy were known for their good figures, I really don't remember Thomas as being especially 'good' at them until she won 86 Nationals. Anyway, Carlo certainly didn't work his magic that year that he supposedly was able to do in 1980.

As for w/d'ing at the Olympics, I really think it's a crappy thing to do. Bobek was apparently landing NOTHING in training and CHJ got a call in Cleveland to make sure that Tonia was ready to fill in. Yet Bobek still competed and landed only one triple in both the short and long. In some way I respect Bobek for just going out and doing what she could do. She was the third US lady and no one expected anything of her. Bobek lived her entire life to go to the Olympics and when she did she was injured and way off, yet she competed. I would forever dislike the young woman if she had w/d at the last minute. But she didn't and I don't. I completely understand Bobek falling all over the place in her Olympics. She earned it and it was her self-respect on the line and she chose to go out and embarass herself. It really seems odd that an OLYMPIAN like Kadavy would just w/d. You're there, go out and do what you can. I've competed with flu or bad cold and I know how much it alters your physicality and worse, your emotional sharpness. I hardly ever get sick, but when I do I hate myself, my support system, and want to yell at everyone. But if the Olympics were on the line, I'd put on my big girl britches and SKATE. Your anger should at least be enough for a 3toe in the first 30 seconds. Kadavy is obviously not one I admire as a competitor.

Poor Nicole was Honey Boo Boo Child before the term was coined. On a personal note, my mom was raised in extremely poor circumstances, yet she and her brother ended up earning doctorates. Her two sisters are another story. In fact I love those cousins more, because I find them so interesting and without any airs. I get Nicole, and was sorry she got into meth and all that, but I respect her as a survivor. I would not imagine or expect her to w/d while at the Olympics. I just don't get Kadavy. Even Kwan had enough respect to pull out so that Emily Hughes would be able to compete. Kwan was totally gifted that spot and it was odd that Papa Hughes wasn't raring his head to get Emily on the team. Even Kwan's 'tryout' done behind closed doors and not on camera was a farce. One reporter said she fell on a 2axel and missed a couple of other triples, yet was 'solid'. Umm, yeah. It was obvious that Kwan had sponsorships that required her to be at the 2006 Olys and I would think NO ONE was surprised when she took a fall in practice and then blamed that fall for her w/d. At least someone else was able to be on hand (how convenient) to compete instead of her. I just don't understand someone w/d'ing from Olys after it has started.

ETA: Here is a clip of "Honey Boo Boo Child". I must have been out of the loop, because I had no idea about this little firecracker. I was completely missing the reference to HBB and had to look her up. Tell me this is not a young Nicole being pushed by Jana and Aunt Joyce. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9nbhzKaqvA

Level 4 eye roll.

[judgejudy27]

I wouldnt be at all surprised if Thomas was better than Trenary and Kadavy at figures. From footage I have seen of her her figures were excellent. I however highly doubt Witt and Manley were better than Trenary, Leistner, or even Kadavy at figures. Witt's figures in Calgary were a joke from all the footage I have seen, they probably were no better than Ito's, lol! I am sure there were politics in the figures placings, and it definitely was not favoring the Fassi students. The SP placings also did not favor his students relative performance level, especialy Kadavy.

I dont know why people even assume Fassi was a big political power by the 80s. He was in the 60s and 70s, but in the 80s he produced few noteable results after Lake Placid. Even his top female student in the late 70s Emi Watanabe was notoriously undermarked. He seemed to be less in demand as well, his big gun for the Sarajevo Olympics was Manuela Rueben, LOL! None of his students won medals due to his politicing after that point, that is for sure. Jill's World title was because Ito bombed figures, and the weak free skating field, nothing else, and then he moved to Italy guaranteeing he would only be taking up obscure skaters from that point on (until his return to the U.S some years later).

[Mafke]

I wouldnt be at all surprised if Thomas was better than Trenary and Kadavy at figures. From footage I have seen of her her figures were excellent.

The footage i've seen (not much and obviously no chance to examine the ice) Thomas had wonderful position and flow in her figures (very unlike Witt). Kadavy clearly botched her second figure (the footage shows her losing an edge and skidding over a few inches before regaining it - that was the figures equivalent of falling in your footwork sequence).

[skatesindreams]

Here's ABC's coverage of the Ladies Figures:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31-yn9XYq0k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GQwszzIeWo

[Mafke]

Here's ABC's coverage of the Ladies Figures:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31-yn9XYq0k

You can see Kadavy's 'bobble' as Peggy Pleming put it, at 2.44

[bardtoob]

The footage i've seen (not much and obviously no chance to examine the ice) Thomas had wonderful position and flow in her figures (very unlike Witt). Kadavy clearly botched her second figure (the footage shows her losing an edge and skidding over a few inches before regaining it - that was the figures equivalent of falling in your footwork sequence).

Yes, and the ABC coverage also showed that Trenary did well on the last two figures but not well on the first, which was a repeat of her nervousness from the previous Worlds. Also, it is clear Debbie did very well in all three figures but appeared to be somewhat undermarked in the first figure, while all the footage of Witt indicates she had bobbles across all three figures but appeared to be rewarded for improvement, although I do not think that is exactly the judges' role, to reward improvement. Thanks for posting the links, Skatesindreams, I wanted to do the same.

Kwanette, I give the Level 4 Eye Roll +3 GOE.

[VIETgrlTerifa]

I always assumed the skaters dressed up for figures. Guess not.

[Alex Forrest]

Those vids of 88 figures are interesting. Witt was almost coming to a complete stop during one or two of her figures. How she managed third overall is a mystery. Yes, I saw Kadavy's mistracing, oops. But to have her 7th? Thomas' tracings looked good, so I'm gaining more of an appreciation for her figures. Funny how Manley wasn't shown. Who knows how she really did. If it was worse than Witt, it must have been bad. I'm still not understanding figures skaters Kadavy and Trenary being 5th and 7th. Figures were money in their pockets. Just not in Calgary.

And yay, I achieved a Level 4 eyeroll with +3 GOE. LOL.

[Lainerb]

I believe this is the only footage commanly available of Ivanova's figures who was dominant at the time. It's interesting to not however that Thomas won the 2nd and 3rd figure, but Ivanova maintained her lead here overall.

I actually enjoyed Ivanova's short program and it appeared to me to be one of her more thought out programs. Her short programs always seemed to be a strength when compared to her long programs which were often all over the place.

[kwanette]

Yes, and the ABC coverage also showed that Trenary did well on the last two figures but not well on the first, which was a repeat of her nervousness from the previous Worlds. Also, it is clear Debbie did very well in all three figures but appeared to be somewhat undermarked in the first figure, while all the footage of Witt indicates she had bobbles across all three figures but appeared to be rewarded for improvement, although I do not think that is exactly the judges' role, to reward improvement. Thanks for posting the links, Skatesindreams, I wanted to do the same.

Kwanette, I give the Level 4 Eye Roll +3 GOE.

The vodka's on its way.

[bardtoob]

The vodka's on its way.

Psss . . . somebody does not realize they were the well zambonied ice, you performed the Level 4 Eye Roll, and I awarded +3 GOE

[bardtoob]

Yes, I saw Kadavy's mistracing, oops. But to have her 7th?

Seriously, better than 7th? At times during the 2nd figure her tracings were off by 2-3 inches.

[Alex Forrest]

Psss . . . somebody does not realize they were the well zambonied ice, you performed the Level 4 Eye Roll, and I awarded +3 GOE

Haha. I personally cannot achieve a level 4 bitchface with +3 GOE because first of all it ages you, and secondly I have too much botox. I would rather have a 'well zambonied' face, than a scratchy, agey, and used one. Bitchface on an 18 y/o looks good, not quite so on a 40+ y/o. Just saying... Try again.

Anyways, there did seem to be a cold war between Dick Button and the Russians. He practically screamed at Kira Ivanova's SP and let us all know how horrible she was. I was never a fan of Kira's, but hearing him rant and rave on her kind of made me like her. And root for her. GO KIRA!!! Where is the emoticon with a bad Kira camel or sitspin or landing??? It's gold. Kira was a rock star!!!

[aliceanne]

^ Both Kadavy and Trenary were Fassi skaters, so they had all the support they needed. I have actually heard that Kadavy pulled out because she was going to be used a la Biellmann in 1980 to flip the ordinals to favor Witt over Thomas if they both skated clean. Mueller miscalculated in that Fassi got no benefit from letting Witt win but did win favor with the USFSA by clearing the way for Thomas, but it ultimately did not matter because Thomas did not skate clean.

I find it hard to believe that a skater would give up her Olympic dream to "take one for the team".
Skating is a highly individual sport and in the US coaches are employed by the skater not the federation. What skater would listen to a coach who asked her to withdraw in the middle of the Olympics so one of her competitors could have a better chance of winning?

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Exactly. I mean how would the USFSA compensate Kadavy? Conspiracy theories are fun but there's a reason why one should never believe in them.

[bardtoob]

Anyways, there did seem to be a cold war between Dick Button and the Russians. He practically screamed at Kira Ivanova's SP and let us all know how horrible she was. I was never a fan of Kira's, but hearing him rant and rave on her kind of made me like her. And root for her. GO KIRA!!! Where is the emoticon with a bad Kira camel or sitspin or landing??? It's gold. Kira was a rock star!!!

Level 4 . . . there was a real Cold War between the United States of America and Union of Soviet Socialist Republics with nuclear intercontinental ballistic missles and everything, and part of Uncle Dick's job at the American Broadcast Company was US-THEM commentary.

[bardtoob]

I find it hard to believe that a skater would give up her Olympic dream to "take one for the team".
Skating is a highly individual sport and in the US coaches are employed by the skater not the federation. What skater would listen to a coach who asked her to withdraw in the middle of the Olympics so one of her competitors could have a better chance of winning?

Exactly. I mean how would the USFSA compensate Kadavy? Conspiracy theories are fun but there's a reason why one should never believe in them.

I agree with both of you, but I thought it was Trash Can worthy

[aliceanne]

I agree with both of you, but I thought it was Trash Can worthy

Thank goodness! I thought for a moment we had lost you to the twighlight zone. I thought it was commendable that Mama Kadavy put her daughter's health first. You rarely see rhat at that level.

The conspiracy theory reminds me of the time Todd E dislocated his shoulder in a warm-up on camera and struggled in agony for a few moments before popping it back in place. Mishin said he did it on purpose to avoid having to compete against Mishin's skaters. Todd did go ahead and compete btw, and laughed when told about Mishin's statement afterwards.