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  1. #21
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    He did say why, in his first paragraph in post #13.

  2. #22
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    What a weid story, I think.

    I also think the words "friend" and "friendship" have no place in this story: nothing like that would have ever happend between friends. I get that you spend time together, maybe share interests, but from the way you both behave and react, I don't think you're friends.

    Some say it's hard for a lot of people to say: "I'm sorry". I think more often it's even harder to call things with their names; it would help understand them better, even predict them.

    In short, this is what I think: you don't have a way to solve this, because your kind of relationship doesn't contemplate the closing you're looking for. But you can keep on spending time together, as long as you don't expect your relationship to be a friendship - unless things change in the future.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by loulou View Post
    In short, this is what I think: you don't have a way to solve this, because your kind of relationship doesn't contemplate the closing you're looking for. But you can keep on spending time together, as long as you don't expect your relationship to be a friendship - unless things change in the future.
    Well said.
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  4. #24
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    Should he have thrown them out? No. He would have been justified in sticking them in a garage or basement or something, given they apparently stank, rather than leaving them in his car, washing them (seriously?), or playing laundry delivery service for you. Should YOU have left them in his car? No. That's not your laundry hamper. He gave you $100 (whether he can 'afford' it is beside the point, he inadvertently threw away something valuable and owed some restitution). Presumably, in future he will not throw away your dirty clothes when left in his car/home, and in future you will make an effort not to leave your dirty clothes lying around in other people's vehicles for days on end. Calling him a 'sociopath' because he hasn't grovelled enough is indeed over-dramatic hyperbole.

    (And as an aside, that was the only episode of "Sex and the City" I've seen, and 1. the shoes weren't thrown out, someone stole them and 2. Carrie came across as a self-absorbed hag far too fixated on an overpriced pair of shoes the host had not stolen or tossed, frantically trying to justify her debt-level spending on footwear to herself.)

  5. #25
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    If the money is not a concern to you then why do you bring it up in every friggin post? I pretty much agree with everyone else - you're blowing this way out of proportion.
    3539 and counting.

    Slightly Wounding Banana list cont: MacMadame.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballettmaus View Post
    I'm wondering why, Alex, have you not answered to questions when you realized that you left your clothes and why you left them. Because I'm wondering that, too. It's kind of hard to believe for me that you just forget a gym bag especially when you're coming from the gym. Sorry.

    That said, it is wrong as a principle to throw out someone else's stuff, whether they are clothes or something else.
    I posted upthread that my gym/dinner date (friend date, not romantic) turned into movies at another friend's house and he had to leave early and someone else took me home. I realized the next day my gym bag was left in his car, but I was coming over on Wednesday and wasn't planning on going to the gym before then. I didn't think there was a problem. Was I being insensitive? I'm asking that seriously. It just never occurred to me that he would throw my clothes out. We are only talking three days here. Not weeks. And I didn't even get a courtesy call to come get my things. We live five minutes away from each other. I think it is inexcusable.

    And I do not believe I am being melodramatic. I'm not saying I'm ending the friendship. But friendships (at least for me) are in different categories, like concentric circles with me as the center. This person was sort of in the 'inner circle'. Now, not at all. I'm not cutting him off. It will be a while before I work out with him, but holidays are coming up and we've been each others' "dates" for functions for years. (He works for the Mayor of my town and has to go to a bunch of things)

    And no, I do not consider his car as a laundry hamper or expect him to wash my clothes as a laundry service. But had he left smelly clothes in my house and I was doing laundry that day, I would have washed them. Because as a friend, that's kinda what you do. You don't throw your friend's stinky clothes in the garbage. It's interesting seeing the different responses here. I didn't realize how objectionable MY actions were. Huh.

    Also, I'm sorry for bringing up the cost of my outfit. You're right if it was some wife beater and crappy shorts I bought at Goodwill (and believe me, at least 20% of my closet has stuff from Goodwill, I'm not a snob) I would have maybe just let it go. But they weren't, and that's why I brought up the cost, otherwise I'd seem like a jerk stressing over a two dollar loss of clothes.

    I do appreciate the responses. I suppose I just wanted reassurance that I was right to be angry and upset. Thanks.
    Last edited by Alex Forrest; 11-24-2012 at 04:32 PM.

  7. #27

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    I don't know why in the world you would just throw away someones belongings. I would have just put them in the garage or even on the back porch. It would NEVER have crossed my mind to throw them away UNLESS I repeatedly asked you to get them and you never did. Then maybe I would assume you didn't want them and throw them away but that would never be my first action.
    -Brian
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  8. #28

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    I'm afraid I'm at a loss to understand why your friend should have called you to come get the smelly clothes that you knew perfectly well you had left with him.

    Certainly he was wrong to throw your things away. But you should have gone and gotten them right away. "Look after my stuff for me till I choose to take five minutes to come get it, even if it's smelling up your house" is hardly a polite or considerate way to treat a friend.
    Charter member of the "We Always Believed in Ashley" Club and the "We Believe in Ricky" Club
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  9. #29
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    I took one of those self-improvement courses at work last winter. The one thing I got out of it was how completely differently people interpret other's actions.

    Half of the people in the course would be insulted at getting a birthday card a week late. Half would be really pleased that the person made the effort, even if it was late.

    Half would feel complimented if a co-worker asked them to attend a meeting to replace them, and half would feel insulted and put upon.

    It really helped me understand that unless communication is very clear, and you understand exactly what the other person is feeling and expecting, then things can go badly awry.

    So- unless you think your friend did this deliberately to punish or upset you, I'd let it go. The friend doesn't feel the same about personal posessions as you do. If they are otherwise a valued friend, just remember not to trust your posessions with them. It doesn't mean that they aren't caring or supportive of you.
    ‎"You emerge victorious from the maze you've been travelling in." Oct 21,2012- Best Fortune Cookie Ever!

  10. #30
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    Read part way through all these posts. What is the difference between a psychopath and a sociopath?

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by milanessa View Post
    If the money is not a concern to you then why do you bring it up in every friggin post? I pretty much agree with everyone else - you're blowing this way out of proportion.
    Just my guess, it's not about the money. It's more to do with respect. His friend didn't respect him by throwing his stuff away without giving it a second thought.

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Forrest View Post
    Thank you to those who commented. I would have taken it to FB instead of here, but I'm friends with this person and everyone would know who I was talking about, since we always work out together. To add more detail, the reason why I left my bag in his trunk, we went to dinner after the gym (he picked me up since we are five minutes away and parking downtown is a bitch). We ran into friends at dinner, took it back to a friend's house, started watching a movie and at 9pm my friend said he had to leave and someone offered to take me home later. I forgot my gym bag was in his trunk, but we made Thanksgiving plans already that I'd come over Wednesday, spend the night and spend Thanksgiving together. That's why the bag was left. I had no idea my property would be in jeopardy.

    I feel somewhat better. He called earlier, I told him the least he could do was reimburse me $100 (so he could feel the pinch) cash and bring it over immediately. He did. We talked for half an hour outside, since I wouldn't let him in my home. I think we straightened it out. Frankly, it had nothing to do with money, but what I perceived as a callousness, and basically stealing my property. The friendship is changed. Who throws a friend's possessions out, without even a quick text msg?

    I guess now that I have financial compensation, I'm still struggling with emotional compensation. Should I remain friends with this person? If I have to be on guard over little/simple things, what would happen over big things? I'm going on an extensive six week cruise this winter and thought he could come by, spend a nigtht here or there so no one would know I'm out of town. And now, goddammit, I don't trust him. And like a sociopath, he never said "I'm sorry". For some people they seem to have in their DNA this inability to just say "I'm sorry". Those two words go a long way, especially to someone like me.
    I am a little confused. I thought your friend's actions- throwing away your clothes without contacting you- were very wrong. It hurt your feelings; it would have hurt mine too. He did not say sorry, but he did reimburse you for most of the cost of the clothes. I would accept it as an apology. Are you not satisfied? Some people just have difficulty saying sorry. I would let it go at that.

    It sounds like you still plan on working out together, but you may want to be careful from now on. Everyone forgets from time to time, but in this case, since he paid you for his mistake, you will need to be extra careful and not get in a similar situation again.

    If you don't feel that the friendship is repaired enough to let him sleep in your home during your absence, you should follow your feelings. Ultimately it's about how YOU feel, when it comes to friendships- with who, how much, etc. We have to deal with feelings all the time and we must listen to our feelings. Ultimately though it's best to let go of the negative ones. It's healthy to do so.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cupid View Post
    Read part way through all these posts. What is the difference between a psychopath and a sociopath?
    I wondered that too, so I looked it up. Apparently, there isn't one:

    Sociopath

    a person with a psychopathic personality whose behavior is antisocial, often criminal, and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience.

    ....

    psychiatry another name for psychopath

    ....

    Someone whose social behavior is extremely abnormal. Sociopaths are interested only in their personal needs and desires, without concern for the effects of their behavior on others.
    Psychopath

    a person with a psychopathic personality, which manifests as amoral and antisocial behavior, lack of ability to love or establish meaningful personal relationships, extreme egocentricity, failure to learn from experience, etc.

    ....

    Also called: sociopath a person afflicted with a personality disorder characterized by a tendency to commit antisocial and sometimes violent acts and a failure to feel guilt for such acts

    ....

    A person with an antisocial personality disorder, especially one manifested in perverted, criminal, or amoral behavior.
    I know a lot of people who aren't psychopaths but find it very difficult to admit they made a mistake or to apologize for anything they did that was wrong.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    I am a little confused. I thought your friend's actions- throwing away your clothes without contacting you- were very wrong. It hurt your feelings; it would have hurt mine too. He did not say sorry, but he did reimburse you for most of the cost of the clothes. I would accept it as an apology. Are you not satisfied? Some people just have difficulty saying sorry. I would let it go at that.
    I understand. If I hold a grudge I would be the jerk now, since he made restitution. I suppose I am just extremely disappointed that his way of thinking (at least in this regard) is so fundamentally different than mine. I could not conceive of treating another person's property like that, ever. RJBlue wrote a very nice post upthread. Some people see things differently and interpret situations fundamentally differently. I mean, some on this thread assumed that I was I guess so self-involved that I would deliberately leave my stinky clothes with someone and expect him to wash them for me and how rude I was for that. Others saw it for what it was. Even on other threads here. A couple people called me out for being so full of hatred on some Kwan thread when I said that Kwan had complex and interesting choreo, is a role model, and anyone would want her for a daughter, friend or spouse. I did say I wouldn't consider her an 'artiste', so that makes me filled with hatred. Huh??? Go figure. I guess diversity is a good thing? Maybe, but it also causes alot of conflict.

    Yes I will work out with him again. No, he will not have access to my home when I'm on vacation. He has shown that he has NO respect for my belongings and I would not trust him alone in my house. Who is to say he comes in, doesn't like the way my furniture is arranged or paintings on my wall and changes things? So I'm not going to be an uber-bitch about this, but his thinking is so fundamentally different than mine that I do not trust him. His actions spoke VOLUMES this week.

    FWIW, I'm the type who appreciates a late birthday card, and would gladly accept a last minute date if someone's "first choice" date cancelled on them. I don't go around feeling insulted and mistreated by everyone. I also like married men, and I have issues with being ignored, though. haha
    Last edited by Alex Forrest; 11-24-2012 at 06:23 PM.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Forrest View Post
    But friendships (at least for me) are in different categories, like concentric circles with me as the center.
    It's an understatement
    "I missed the view and viewed the mist..." ©

  16. #36
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    There are a few things in this story that confuse me. You left your expensive bag in his car - you indicated many times that it was an expensive bag/clothing. OK - you left it there. You left it there because you got distracted. Happens all the time - leave your stuff in someone's car. Yeah I get that. I sort of understand the meeting of friends and going back to someone else's place to watch movies, yeah that happens. What I don't understand in that scenario - if your ride leaves without you, who do you go home with? At at that time, wouldn't you have realized that you came with your other friend and the day started at the gym?

    You say that you remembered that you left your bag in his car and don't call? Perhaps I am a little strange, but if I remembered that I had a gym bag and no longer had it, I would call to find out if they had it or if I left it at the gym or try to track it down somehow - especially it if contain EXPENSIVE equipment/clothes. At the least I might shoot a short text - Hey dude, sorry I didn't get my gym bag out of the car, just put it in your garage. And not wait until Wednesday.

    To me, this sounds like a jealous situation. Alex came with me, we met up with friends, Alex ignored me or hooked up with our friends, Alex didn't notice that I left, Alex didn't even call me the next morning to see if I had his stuff so we could talk about it, Alex expects me to be there for him but he tosses me out like last night's fish, etc. Let me show Alex, I'll toss out his stuff.

    Seems to me that you are putting yourself in the best light and your friend as the villain. I say you both are acting like spoiled children who wants the other one to apologize for their behavior. And that it is possible that you are in a romantic relationship whether or not both parties think you are. Both of you are drama divas.

    The clothes have been thrown out. You have some compensation. You need to decide if the relationship can weather this storm.

  17. #37
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    Unless similar incidents had happened before and your friend had gotten tired of it, I agree that he was being rude.

    Now I wonder if there are other previous actions from your friend make you think he might be a sociopath? If this is just an isolated standalone incident and there is nothing more to the story, I have to admit I find the whole thing a little strange. His action. Your reaction.

  18. #38
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    Was throwing your left behind stinky gym clothes wrong? Yes. Was asking him to pay for the gym clothes right? No.

    Did he ever charge you gas money for carting you back and forth to the gym? If not, I wouldn't expect any more free rides...or any ride at all.
    Last edited by AliasJohnDoe; 11-24-2012 at 11:20 PM.

  19. #39
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    The way I look at it is that the guy reimbursed you for the clothes he threw away (even if he couldn't afford to). That tells me right there that he realized he shouldn't have thrown your clothes away or he wouldn't have reimbursed you. You now are wondering whether you can trust him or not.

    He realized he was wrong in throwing away your clothes. So, he reimbursed you for doing so. If it's still bothering you and you still want an apology, then tell him you want an apology or leave it alone. Period.
    Angie
    “I have not failed. I’ve just found 10,000 ways that won’t work.” ~ Thomas A. Edison

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cupid View Post
    Just my guess, it's not about the money. It's more to do with respect. His friend didn't respect him by throwing his stuff away without giving it a second thought.
    Or Alex didn't respect his friend by expecting his friend to act as a storage facility; Alex expected his friend to call him while Alex sat back and did nothing. He knowingly left his clothes in his friends car, and didn't do anything about it until it suited him, and then they'd been thrown out. Firstly I think it's ridiculous to have such expensive gym clothes, secondly I think it's silly to knowingly leave those expensive gym clothes somewhere where you are no longer monitoring them, thirdly I think it's disrespectful to expect your friend to keep them in his car, and I get the impression Alex would be annoyed had his friend done anything but wash, press and fold his clothes, and then call him and tell him they are ready for collection at a time convenient for Alex.

    The friend could have done something other than throw the clothes out, and Alex could have done something other than leave them in the car, not call, and expect his friend to call. There's more to the story because there's reasons behind each party doing (or not doing) what they chose. There's always more to the story.

    I think expecting monetary compensation when he knew the clothes were left there is completely selfish, regardless of whether or not his friend could afford it. If the clothes were seriously worth that much, it was Alex's responsibility to follow up and make sure he took them. What an overreaction. And I agree, melodramatic hyperbole. Expecting money was completely wrong, when you are also at fault. Taking the money is selfish and a sign of bad character, especially because you know he can't afford it, and you don't need the money.

    This friendship was obviously not worth much in the first place. Your reaction speaks as much volume as his action. This friendship will never satisfy you. You don't trust him, and he probably thinks you use him.

    (And I think apologising to get an apology in return, as someone suggested early in the thread, defeats the purpose of an apology.)
    Last edited by Angelskates; 11-25-2012 at 12:23 AM.

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