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  1. #141
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    I think these are the only areas Wagner artistry falls short of Kwan:

    elegance
    grace
    polish
    lines
    positions
    musicality
    basic skating
    speed
    expression
    passion
    edge quality
    fluidity
    flow
    extension

    Other than those few things she is equally as artistic.

  2. #142

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    Quote Originally Posted by KimGOAT View Post
    Other than those few things she is equally as artistic.
    So I take it you're a fan?

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by falling_dance View Post
    So I take it you're a fan?
    I am a fan of both skaters. Kwan is better than Wagner though. She competed in a tougher era for U.S women and won 9 U.S titles to only 2 so far for Wagner. Even if Wagner wins the next 5 she will still only have 7 against a much weaker U.S field. At the World level Wagner has tougher competition but even that doesnt account for the gap of 9 World medals vs 0.

  4. #144
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    In his interview with Jenny and Dave, Frank Carroll summed up Kwan's presentation very nicely. Wagner is not even close.

  5. #145
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    This is kind of a funny question to me because I think that Kwan and Wagner's artistry are not even in the same league. Not to say that Ashley's artistry isn't good, but she can't even come close to the elegance, grace, flow and beauty of Michelle, in my opinion.

  6. #146

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    Michelle Kwan had amazing finish to her moves and the openness of her emotions could really draw the audience in, but I also thought that she was actually more expressive in her face than in the way she moved. She seems to held at such an untouchable artistic pedestal and I just cannot agree with it ("How DARE anyone compares any skater to Michelle Kwan?!"). She moved well enough, but I've just seen better. I also never really liked the way she held/used her arms - it was so calculated and just not supple/expressive/natural enough.

  7. #147

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    I think Michelle Kwan's style was just more about control of movement (more akin to the classic figure skating carriage) whereas her sister was a lot looser in that regard (and actually fits in more with the way skaters move nowadays). Michelle Kwan's body movement seemed to have a lot more abandon when she performed non-Lori Nichol routines...especially her work with Phillip Mills.

  8. #148
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    Ashley:

    I wish skating had more strong individuals, some champions the audience can latch on to. In the U.S., the skating audience is dwindling now. I'd like to go back to what it was in Michelle Kwan's times. Performance is what people come to watch, beyond technique. Of course, you go for the elements, where you get the points. But the components are also so important.
    It would be a start to banish rarefied words like "components" to the rubbish bin where Jenny Kirk threw her pewter medal. Go back to "beauty," "performance," "artistry," "expression" and any terms that don't sound sound meaningless or a little pretentious. "Choreography" and "interpretation" seem to be the PC words for these things, and those are good. But this use of "components" to mean "artistry" (specifically as it is defined and codified by the ISU) is just like unnecessary jargon.

  9. #149

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    Two Olympic medals, five World Championships, three silver and one bronze World medals, and seven more US Championships than Ashley has won.

  10. #150
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    I have a feeling that Wagner would skate to Tosca next season if she saw this thread.

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