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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    IMO, nothing is natural in Ashley's moves. I have the feeling that she is not as natural as Michelle. It seems Ashley is very professional when it's about choreography. Do you see what I mean ?
    But I love the confidence she shows on the ice, and the hard work she seems to do.
    ITA. Michelle's artistry seemed to come straight from the heart. I don't feel Ashley is in the same league artistically; she seems to 'force' the artistry- for example her facial expression does not look natural at all. I appreciate and respect the hard work she has put into reinventing herself, to get to this point. Confidence wise, I am happy to see her develop so much. In Michelle's case, she was a natural- technically and artistically. The only time I felt Michelle was lacking in confidence was in the 1996-97 season when she was dealing with a growth spurt. IMHO Ashley is not in the same league as Michelle. However, others who were not in the same league have won OGMs, so Ashley still has a chance to achieve that.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by l'etoile View Post
    So many people just don't get PeterG:
    Kween Fans PeterG
    Kween Fans PeterG
    Prosperity makes friends, adversity tries them. – Publilius Syrus

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    Kwan retired because she knew that skaters like Wagner were coming up. At least Lysacek and Plushenko are trying comebacks to compete against the new kids. But Kwan is petrified and knows that all the current female amateurs have a natural artistry that far surpasses hers.






    Can't wait to see what you have to say next PG. You are just such a "natural," no foolin'.

    Glad I'd already swallowed most of my coke ... (as in coca-cola), prior to reading your devilish post.


    Quote Originally Posted by spikydurian View Post
    Poor Ashley. Let Ashley be Ashley and Michelle be Michelle. Two skaters brought up and trained under different rules. I hope Ashley will achieve stardom like Michelle as I think only a lady star may be able to revive figure skating in the USA. Having said that, let's be realistic. It's easier to be multiple champions then rather than now. Good luck to Ashley. I am sure with her determination and hard work, she'll get there. Talent alone is not enough.



    Hey folks, did you all check out that Skating magazine link I posted with the pic of Ashley and Kwan together? They are such strikingly lovely ladies. Seems to me that they both probably admire each other in equal measure. Plus both their smiles in that pic are so "natural."


    Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by michiruwater View Post
    I'm confused by the notion that, since Ashley has stated that she admires Michelle and is trying to emulate her in some ways, that means that Ashley is really hoping to turn into a Kwan clone and also that she's a crazy arrogant person who actually believes she is capable of becoming The Kween, etc.

    I mean, is it really a bad thing to have a young woman with work ethic who is trying very hard to emulate certain aspects of the US's greatest all-time skater? I'm really not sure why all these people find it necessary to strictly comment on all the aspects of Ashley that just Do Not Measure Up to Michelle, as though to put the young woman in her place for even daring to admire and work towards emulating aspects of Michelle's skating.
    Well, the OP started the thread asking what separates Kwan's artistry from Ashley and that is what people are discussing. What are we supposed to say? No one is saying she is arrogant or believes she is the next Michelle...at least I have not read anyone say that. Most people are talking about the difference being Michelle's natural way to connect to the music, along with showmanship being a big difference between the two skaters. Ashley said she is trying to use Michelle's ability to perform as an inspiration, and those are some things she needs to work on more to get closer to achieving that level of skating. I really have not read anything mean spirited.

  5. #45
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    This program and performance is one of the most beautiful moments I've personally witnessed in figure skating. Michelle's artistic maturity was unbelievable for the age of 15. You don't see this attention paid to the details of the choreography and nuances of the music in any of the current 15-16-year old ladies. Just impressive.

  6. #46
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    Didn't she say not so long ago that she was inspired by Lipinski?

  7. #47
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    By the way, another very contrasting difference between Wagner and Kwan is that Kwan used to work so hard on her exhibition programs. The details in East of Eden, Winter, Dante's Prayer, Les Mes, Red Violin, Hands, Fields of Gold... are incredible as exhibition programs. On the other hand, Wagner's exhibition programs looked like she spent only 2 hours practising them.

    I know - Kwan used to get a lot of $$ from appearance fees at those pro-ams and shows etc and that's why they had to be good. But now that Wagner is winning or at least medalling a lot more, she needs to have thoughtful programs too, especially if she wants to grab more show opportunities in US and in Asia and if she wants to be taken more seriously as an artrist and be compared to Kwan...

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Didn't she say not so long ago that she was inspired by Lipinski?
    Right. I remember that Wagner said her idol was Tara, 2 years ago.

  9. #49

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    Not to be disrespectful to Tara because I really love her Nagano LP performance but I think Ashley's change of heart tells something about what she learned from watching and "studying" Michelle: winning skating and secure career. Sadly, artistry of Michelle seems to be a long long way for Ashley. Well, that goes for everyone else so, I don't blame her. You can't really compare MK with anybody really. Michelle was truly one of a kind, to come out once in a thousand years at least.

  10. #50
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    Along with being Ashley's idol, Tara was Ashley's mentor for a brief period of time.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...=moreheadlines

  11. #51

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    ^So, mystery of who's whose idol is solved, I guess?

  12. #52
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    With points to rack up and so many other details to consider, it makes me wonder if Janet Lynn would have been the same kind of free skater under CoP?

  13. #53

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    Seriously, is this even a proper question? Been few weeks since I visit FSU, but desperation I seethe, USA demand the return of the KWAN, and they will do anything!!!

    What I will say is Ashley's Red Violin has nothing to do with the red violin of the music or the mystery of the film which the music was written for. While Kwan's drew you in and haunt you just like the film, Ashley's version wins competitions - that's about it, she won in a weak ladies field without any WC podium finishers from the last quads.

    While I really enjoyed Ashley's Black Swan last year, this year clearly the emphasis was on the packaging rather than substance. She sells it well, but missing the heart/emotion of MK's skate every time she steps on the ice as if she is living in the moment. As a result, Ashley's performance will not be memorable to me this year, although yes it will still win competitions, very much like how Miki has done. (Of course Ashley is still tons better than Miki in terms of performance and projection.)

    Ultimately Ashley should be own her lady, I think give her something star spangled banner in a cheer leader outfit, she'd totally ace it. Just like one of those girls from the movie 'Bring it on'. I can totally see her live up to the US Champion title this year. (Come on Mirai.. what are you doing?! Bring the 3:3 back, what have you got to loose?)
    Last edited by os168; 11-22-2012 at 09:03 PM.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by essence_of_soy View Post
    With points to rack up and so many other details to consider, it makes me wonder if Janet Lynn would have been the same kind of free skater under CoP?
    Probably not. She apparently hated the new short program because she was "required" to do things. Thank goodness her wonderous skating was not inhibited by alot of the silliness of COP.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by essence_of_soy View Post
    With points to rack up and so many other details to consider, it makes me wonder if Janet Lynn would have been the same kind of free skater under CoP?
    Well, not sure if she could have been as competitive, but she most likely would have been as light across the ice as ever which is the most important point anyway.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanette View Post
    Along with being Ashley's idol, Tara was Ashley's mentor for a brief period of time.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...=moreheadlines

    Yes, thanks kwanette! I thought I recalled that Lipinski had served as Ashley's mentor. I wonder if Lipinski continued mentoring Ashley once Ash almost but didn't make the 2010 Olympic team?

    Thanks for the link too.
    Last edited by aftershocks; 11-23-2012 at 07:50 AM.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    Yes, thanks kwanette! I thought I recalled that Lipinski had served as Ashley's mentor. I wonder if Lipinski continued mentoring Ashley once Ash almost but didn't make the 2010 Olympic team?

    Thanks for the link too.
    IIRC, she was still her mentor at 2011 Nats. After that, nothing else was mentioned.

  18. #58
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    People have already summed up how I feel really.

    When I look at Wagner, I am impressed - but what it is impressing me is her obvious work ethic and application. She clearly knows what she wants and knows how to get it - a quality in itself. However, there is also a slightly "contrived" feel to her skating in comparison to some others (not just Kwan) as I don't think she's necessarily a natural, neither artistically nor athletically. I just think she's tremendously determined above all else. And it's probably going to get her far.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanette View Post
    IIRC, she was still her mentor at 2011 Nats. After that, nothing else was mentioned.
    What is it to mentoring someone ? I remember Dorothy Hamill saying that she was mentoring Rachael Flatt. But what dod you do when you're mentoring someone ?

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    What is it to mentoring someone ? I remember Dorothy Hamill saying that she was mentoring Rachael Flatt. But what dod you do when you're mentoring someone ?
    You text during her long program in Greensboro..

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