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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by all_empty View Post
    The problem with Kiira is her jump technique is really flawed. Before her win in Russia, I can't remember the last time she landed both a 3Lz and 3F. Her 3F entry, which she keeps changing, is especially scary.

    She is a gorgeous girl and improved many other areas of her skating, but I agree that she lacks the technical consistency to ever win a major title. She has good speed, but I actually find her upper body quite rigid.

    Ashley still has jump issues, but not as severe.
    Yeah I was leaning towards the technical issues aswell which will hold her back. I cringe watching her flip entry, it used to be much better 6 years ago but that is what happens in skating.

    I find Kiira to have a lightness to her upper body that rivals the best of the best. I don't find her lower body (edges/stroking) to be quite as magnificent. I still would put money on Ashley if they landed the same technical content because Kiira will suffer on jump GOE. This is entirely subjectively my opinion, however.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Kostner and Asada (and arguably Korpi) are better skaters. If Wagner wins, she will deserve it but it will most likely be due to mistakes by these other girls. There is something sour about winning just because she is the only one who put it all together.
    Funny, I seem to remember another skater whom people said could only win if her competitors made mistakes (cough*Lipinski*cough).

    You never know what's going to happen until it actually happens.
    Charter member of the "We Always Believed in Ashley" Club and the "We Believe in Ricky" Club
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  3. #43
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    I've never been a fan of the "Skater A won just b/c Skater B made mistakes" even though it's true. Ex: would Sarah have won in SLC if Michelle and Irina hadn't made mistakes? No. Would Shizuka have won in Torino if Sasha and Irina hadn't made mistakes? No. Would Kimmie have won worlds in 2006 if Sasha was clean? Definitely not. Sometimes skaters get lucky and all of the cards fall into place. That doesn't necessarily mean they're the better skater or competitor, it just means they were able to get it done when others couldn't.

    The challenge of competing is being able to deliver when the pressure is on. There are a number of skaters who are more talented than the people who end up winning. The reason they don't win is b/c they don't deliver the goods when they need to. A few seasons ago Ashley fit into that mold: she was just as if not more talented than several of the people she finished behind but it was b/c she lacked consistency or made errors when she needed to skate cleanly. Now she's learned to focus and compete. She's delivering her programs cleanly or with very few errors and that is boosting her reputation through the roof, especially seeing as how most skaters can't complete more than 3 or 4 triples in a program.
    Last edited by kwanatic; 11-28-2012 at 05:14 PM.

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    I've never been a fan of the "Skater A won just b/c Skater B made mistakes" even though it's true.
    Boy Howdy. You missed one prime example: Kurt Browning

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    I've never been a fan of the "Skater A won just b/c Skater B made mistakes" even though it's true. Ex: would Sarah have won in SLC if Michelle and Irina hadn't made mistakes? No. Would Shizuka have won in Torino if Sasha and Irina hadn't made mistakes? No. Would Kimmie have won worlds in 2006 if Sasha was clean? Definitely not. Sometimes skaters get lucky and all of the cards fall into place. That doesn't necessarily mean they're the better skater or competitor, it just means they were able to get it done when others couldn't.

    The challenge of competing is being able to deliver when the pressure is on. There are a number of skaters who are more talented than the people who end up winning. The reason they don't win is b/c they don't deliver the goods when they need to. A few seasons ago Ashley fit into that mold: she was just as if not more talented than several of the people she finished behind but it was b/c she lacked consistency or made errors when she needed to skate cleanly. Now she's learned to focus and compete. She's delivering her programs cleanly or with very few errors and that is boosting her reputation through the roof, especially seeing as how most skaters can't complete more than 3 or 4 triples in a program.
    Liked this post a lot

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyliefan View Post
    Funny, I seem to remember another skater whom people said could only win if her competitors made mistakes (cough*Lipinski*cough).

    You never know what's going to happen until it actually happens.
    True, and if Wagner improved that much like Lipinski did when leading up to the Olympics, then I would be very happy for her success.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbd1235 View Post
    Liked this post a lot
    Me too, thank you kwanatic. If Wagner won when she delivered the goods but nobody else did, then I would be happy for her. But if Wagner won when everyone delivered the goods, then I would be happier - but for this to happen - she needs to improve still.

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    USA TODAY article (Wagner skated on the Today show at the Rockefeller Center rink on Tuesday morning): http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...tency/1718085/

    Nice article, maybe America has finally found their skating sweetheart, alas.

    Enjoy your success, Ashley, you've earned it. Now onto the GPF!

  9. #49

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    I'm bumping up this thread with this pre-Nationals article on Ashley Wagner: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/artic...&vkey=ice_news
    That leaves just one question mark: Will Wagner risk more difficult jump combinations -- a triple flip-triple toe in the short, a double Axel-triple toe in the free -- in Omaha?

    As usual, it will be Nicks' call.

    "The one thing Mr. Nicks always stresses is he wants me to skate smart," Wagner said. "He is a firm believer that sometimes it's better to do a program with quality with lower technical difficulty than go out and risk something. Even if it's an 80 percent success rate in practice, it might be better to do, say, a [double] Axel-double toe instead of a triple toe. [A triple-triple] is definitely something I'm considering, but at the end of the day, he is the one to call the shots."
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbd1235 View Post

    I find Kiira to have a lightness to her upper body that rivals the best of the best. I don't find her lower body (edges/stroking) to be quite as magnificent. I still would put money on Ashley if they landed the same technical content because Kiira will suffer on jump GOE. This is entirely subjectively my opinion, however.
    I often find Kiira's upper body quite stiff.. Often she has arms that stick straight out like someone who is first learning how to skate. She doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Ashley or any other of the top skaters. It baffles me how she finds her way into the mix. Besides her "beauty" which I find really quite average, I don't really know what else about her that stands out... Ashley's packaging this season has been nothing short of a revelation... She just needs the triple triple to have the absolute complete package..

  11. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyliefan View Post
    Funny, I seem to remember another skater whom people said could only win if her competitors made mistakes (cough*Lipinski*cough).

    You never know what's going to happen until it actually happens.
    I seem to remember that only being said about Lipinski when talking about whether she could beat Kwan and even then it was only really at the 1998 Olympics. Looking back, she DID need mistakes from Kwan to win 97 Nationals and 97 Worlds. In 1998 Lipinski was seen as an even match and then when Kwan skated like she did at 98 Nationals everyone was saying that Lipinski could not beat a clean Kwan at the Olympics. It was really only for one competition.
    -Brian
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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by apatinar View Post
    I often find Kiira's upper body quite stiff.. Often she has arms that stick straight out like someone who is first learning how to skate. She doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Ashley or any other of the top skaters. It baffles me how she finds her way into the mix. Besides her "beauty" which I find really quite average, I don't really know what else about her that stands out... Ashley's packaging this season has been nothing short of a revelation... She just needs the triple triple to have the absolute complete package..
    I find her body movements and movements across the ice a lot more effortless than Wagner's.

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