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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Willowway View Post
    Michael Carlisle, who IIRC speaks Russian, was her agent at Wm. Morris for a while. He subsequently left Wm. Morris, opened his own very successful literary agency. He is an up and up guy and Wm. Morris which is huge and reps (and has since time immemorial) extremely successful and high earning (many millions) folks, doesn't need and didn't need to "exploit" a minor to make a few extra bucks. Ilia followed Oksana to Wm. Morris and Michael very successfully.

    I doubt if Galina took anything that wasn't customary and earned (but Oksana isn't suing Galina and probably won't because Wm. Morris is a much deeper pocket to go after), so I don't know if payments to Galina are really in question in the suit. Galina helped Oksana to a medal that should have guaranteed her future. If that money was not managed well over the last 20 years Galina had little or nothing to do with that.

    The good news here is that large agencies like Wm. Morris keep very careful books and records. I am sure the numbers are quite transparent and if OB thinks she can make something out of them, she certainly has the freedom to sue. She's not going to get a penny from them unless it is really owed. So we'll see if it is really owed as this plays out.
    I'm also confused about whether Oksana is also suing over her original contract with them in 1994. I would think the statute of limitations would have run out on that one.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by AxelAnnie View Post
    Just for the sake of the other side..... I don't know what standard agent fees are......but Galina took her in, supported her, and all (IIRC) without any financial help. I don't think it is horrid that she received a portion of Oksana's earnings. And, if Galina was her guardian, was not that relationship sanctioned in the US - in which case, as a minor, Oksana's arrangements would have (I think) been overseen by a family court judge (but maybe that is just for young actors).

    What a drama her life has been.
    I agree AxelAnnie. Oksana was supposedly sleeping in the shed at the ice rink (did anyone even bother to confirm that?) after practice because she had no where to go. It's hard to come down on Galina when she took this little girl with no parents and no means of support into her home and trained her gratis. Totally agree. Who knows where Oksana would be had Galina not opened up her home and rink to her, maybe a dying alcoholic prositute in Ukraine.

    HOWEVER, Galina did not wave a magic wand and make Oksana an Olympic gold medalist. Oksana put in the hours, the blood, sweat and tears. Oksana was with Galina only what? Two years, three years before Lillehamer. I think the correct thing to do would be to reimburse Galina for those three years, say thank you for changing my life and I'll be forever grateful to you, and then cut the financial ties. If Galina still has her medal as hostage, I'm even more disgusted by her.

    Whatever happened to altruism? I sponsored a kid in my neighborhood (it's the third ward, 99.9% black) so she could go to a private high school, and she totally came into her own, and is now in college on a full ride. Do I expect compensation? Hell no. Did I expect a thank you? Yep. And I got one, and said "It was a pleasure to be a part of it".

    So I guess I understand Galina, but then I don't. I'm not looking for a cut in this young girl's future earnings. Helping was the reward. Her success was the gravy.

    Sorry to sound so Pollyanna. I am a quite cynical person.

  3. #43

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    Sorry to sound so Pollyanna. I am a quite cynical person.
    Just for the record - you can't be both a Pollyanna and a cynic at the same time - one logically cancels the other.

    That said, in the Ukraine and former Soviet countries (among others) there were common practices about earnings (a cut of the skater's income) for elite coaches and I've not seen anything that even suggests that Galina got anything more than was customary. You're confusing the 10% for the agent with Galina's cut as coach (which, granted, is way more than 10%).

    And altruism? This was Galina's work. Does anyone ask you or me to do our full-time jobs for nothing because that would make us nicer people? What we contribute to is another story but no one says "I think you're donating Mondays and Tuesdays to this company."

    Your illustration concerning your own contribution though lovely and generous doesn't exactly mirror this situation - after you helped the young person pay for a private high school did you expect all the teachers to donate all their time? Because that's what you're saying.

    Coaching is work. Coaches are entitled to compensation for their time and skill just like the teachers in your story and everyone else who works for a living. In some cases (especially in poorer countries and certain situations) the coach's earnings come after the skater's success not before it because there is no money available without the success. Today in the U.S. many kids' parents pay coaches as they go (and it's darn expensive!) - but Galina got nothing for working with Oksana (Oksana, sadly, had no way to pay her) before Oksana actually earned money off her skating. You suggest that Galina should have donated all of the time she spent training her key student. Then how does Galina, a professional coach, put food on her table?

    As I said before, I have no impression from the filing that Oksana is looking to recover any part of Galina's earnings - am I missing something here? How did Galina get to be the bad guy in this discussion? I don't think she's even part of the law suit.

    If you want to debate the merits of various earnings arrangements for elite coaches that's fine - but that's another discussion.
    Last edited by Willowway; 11-24-2012 at 08:20 PM.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willowway View Post
    Just for the record - you can't be both a Pollyanna and a cynic at the same time - one logically cancels the other.

    That said, in the Ukraine and former Soviet countries (among others) there were common practices about earnings (a cut of the skater's income) for elite coaches and I've not seen anything that even suggests that Galina got anything more than the usual. You're confusing the 10% for the agent with Galina's cut as coach. Galina wasn't the agent.

    And altruism? This was Galina's work. Does anyone ask you or me to do our full-time job for nothing because that would make us nice people? What we contribute to is another story but no one says "I think you're donating Mondays and Tuesdays to this company." This is no different. Your illustration concerning your own contributions doesn't exactly mirror this situation - you didn't invest significant time to teach this young person the skills to achieve their goals - after you helped the younger person get into a private high school did you expect the teachers to donate all their time? You contributed money which is a wonderful thing to do but it's different.

    Coaching is work, lots of it and coaches are entitled to professional compensation for their time and skill just like teachers and everyone else. In some cases (especially in poorer countries and certain situations) the coach's earnings come after the skater's success not before it. Today in the U.S. most kids' parents pay coaches as they go - Galina got nothing for working with Oksana before Oksana actually earned money off her skating. But you suggest that Galina is supposed to donate all of the time she spent training her key student? Then how does Galina, a professional coach, pay her rent?

    As I said before, I have no impression from the filing that Oksana is looking to recover any part of Galina's earnings - am I missing something here? How did Galina get to be the bad guy in this discussion? I don't think she's even part of the law suit.

    If you want to debate the arrangements for income for elite coaches well that's fine - but don't confuse the issues here and in your post they seem rather muddled.
    Willoway, you make a very good point. Galina is not even involved in this lawsuit. (Is it just my computer or has FSU gone down from 14 point to like 4 point? I can barely read without my glasses on, and I don't have my glasses on) If I mispell I am trying to correct but some things get passed. Anyway, in this tiny font I am writing conservatively, I do not mean to demonize Galina, but let Oksana just pay for those three years and be done. Didn't Hamill sue Fassi over that? It's like "Look coach, you got me the medal, but *I* did the work and had to overtrain and deal with competition nerves, andI pulled the performance out of my ass when it was do/die." The font is too low I can't type anymore.

  5. #45
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    Maybe this is partly for publicity. It's very close to 2013. I would worry about an agent who thought she could carry a show when Scott is having a hard time with SOI.
    Last edited by nursebetty; 11-25-2012 at 03:41 AM.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Forrest View Post
    Oksana was supposedly sleeping in the shed at the ice rink (did anyone even bother to confirm that?) after practice because she had no where to go. It's hard to come down on Galina when she took this little girl with no parents and no means of support into her home and trained her gratis. Totally agree. Who knows where Oksana would be had Galina not opened up her home and rink to her, maybe a dying alcoholic prositute in Ukraine.
    At some point, Oksana said those stories about her sleeping at the ice rink weren't true. Sorry, I don't have a link. That was nearly twenty years, three computers, and numerous email addresses ago. I also used to have an email buddy who was working on a biography of Oksana. He had traveled to her hometown of Dniepepetrovsk and interviewed people who knew Oksana from the time she was very small.

    IIRC, Oksana moved in with her childhood coach after her mother died. She stayed there for about a year, but then he took off for Canada. Somewhere I read that after the coach left and before Oksana moved to Odessa to train with Galina, she stayed in an athlete's dorm, of which there were many in the former USSR. I guess this is the kernel of truth behind the "sleeping at the ice rink" myth. My email buddy told me that the nascent Ukrainian Skating Federation was very aware of who Oksana was at that time-- she had competed at the Soviet Nationals when she was just twelve or thirteen. They were the ones who arranged for her to train with Galina. If Galina had declined for whatever reason, the federation would have arranged for Oksana to train elsewhere, perhaps in Kiev.

    HOWEVER, Galina did not wave a magic wand and make Oksana an Olympic gold medalist. Oksana put in the hours, the blood, sweat and tears. Oksana was with Galina only what? Two years, three years before Lillehamer.
    It was one year/skating season before Oksana won Worlds; two years before Lillehammer.


    I think the correct thing to do would be to reimburse Galina for those three years, say thank you for changing my life and I'll be forever grateful to you, and then cut the financial ties. If Galina still has her medal as hostage, I'm even more disgusted by her.
    I'm not sure if that story about the medal is true or not. I seem to recall that Oksana gave the medal to Galina's elderly mother, with whom she was close. Perhaps Galina kept it after her mother passed away, but I don't know for sure.

    At any rate, both Oksana and Galina benefitted professionally from the arrangement. I don't think Galina was prepared for everything that awaited them after they came to the USA. How could she? She was a middle aged woman who had lived in the Soviet Union until it crumbled. I get the feeling that this was one of those scenarios that isn't uncommon among immigrants where the kid gets Americanized much more quickly than the adults. And in this case, the kid was an A-list celebrity. (My 14-year-old niece doesn't believe me when I tell her that figure skaters used to be big stars with their photos on the cover of People magazine and their misdeeds chronicled in the tabloids.)

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by jenniferlyon View Post
    I'm not sure if that story about the medal is true or not.
    Judging by this recent appearance on The Rosie Show, I'd say not true. Either that or Galina lent it out to her for this one occasion?

  8. #48

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    Although I'm sure it wasn't much, I'm guessing the Ukrainian federation compensated Galina for coaching Oksana to some extent.

    And while the coach and possibly the federation taking a cut of earnings is customary in some parts of the world, Oksana's earnings were through the roof. They were far above the normal "earnings" so I think a cap would have been appropriate. Like the lesser amount of X% or $1,000,000. That still would have been generous but perhaps more reasonable.
    Keeper of Nathalie Pechelat's bitchface.

  9. #49
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    Just to restate what has already been said in this thread, Bauil's suit is not against Zmievskaya so whatever compensation Galina may have received should not be at issue.
    "I miss footwork that has any kind of a discernible pattern. The goal of a step sequence should not be for a skater to show the same ice coverage as a Zamboni and take about as much time as an ice resurface. " ~ Zemgirl, reflecting on a pre-IJS straight line sequence

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    If the compensation to Galina is specified in the contract, and it's not an amount that a reasonable Guardian would have advised her to sign off on, then it might be an issue.

    I was surprised to read this part:

    According to the lawsuit, "Not until November 19, 2011, did Baiul discover, through investigations by her personal manager, Farina, that though Defendants undertook the duty to collect and in fact collected almost US $9.5 million on Baiul's behalf, Defendants failed to collect additional sums to which Baiul was contractually entitled, failed to remit payment of the additional sums to Baiul and/or took the payments owing to Baiul and wrongful transferred them to OCL, UFG, and their agents."

    The latter is in reference to the Olympic Champions Ltd. and the Ukrainian Financial Group, which were also contracted in 1994 to advise and represent her on skating tours, merchandising and other entertainment endeavors.
    Keeper of Nathalie Pechelat's bitchface.

  11. #51
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    Oksana has her medal in her possession..
    She is in serious trouble though.. Since she met this new man, she sold her condo in NJ and moved away from the NYC area.. God only knows what happened to that money made from the sale... He then starts filling her head with a whole bunch of nonsense and hiring security guards for events when none are needed.. Many different money making schemes and lawsuits are now popping up...
    This man is going to take her straight to the cleaners and then leave her - mark my words....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coco View Post
    If the compensation to Galina is specified in the contract, and it's not an amount that a reasonable Guardian would have advised her to sign off on, then it might be an issue.
    That's a lot of ifs. How this thread got started down this road, I don't know. One poster alleged that Zmievskaya was taking 30%, but there was no link that I saw to substantiate that claim. And then everyone ran with it. Zmievskaya's been around this sport long enough that I think she deserves the benefit of the doubt until proven wrong, rather than idle speculation tarnishing her good name.
    "I miss footwork that has any kind of a discernible pattern. The goal of a step sequence should not be for a skater to show the same ice coverage as a Zamboni and take about as much time as an ice resurface. " ~ Zemgirl, reflecting on a pre-IJS straight line sequence

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    Quote Originally Posted by apatinar View Post
    Oksana has her medal in her possession..
    She is in serious trouble though.. Since she met this new man, she sold her condo in NJ and moved away from the NYC area.. God only knows what happened to that money made from the sale... He then starts filling her head with a whole bunch of nonsense and hiring security guards for events when none are needed.. Many different money making schemes and lawsuits are now popping up...
    This man is going to take her straight to the cleaners and then leave her - mark my words....
    I hope not. She's had such a tumultuous life. She needs to catch a break. That Rosie clip was interesting. She seemed a bit puffy, I'm just wondering if she's still drinking? It's hard to read her, and if anyone in this world would be described as being 'dramatic' it's this poor woman. You never can tell if she's going to burst into tears or into laughter. I hope she has friends to help her if this guy does indeed show himself to be a bad person.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coco View Post
    Although I'm sure it wasn't much, I'm guessing the Ukrainian federation compensated Galina for coaching Oksana to some extent.
    Under the old Soviet system, yes, the federation would have paid for everything. But I'm not sure what kinds of funds would have been available in Ukraine at the time. I'm guessing not much, but they probably provided what they could. I know the rink in Odessa was in a sorry state at that time; there were stories about green algae growing all over the ice. Viktor was the one who took care of the bulk of Oksana's skating expenses. He had won his OGM by then and was living in Vegas, performing in tours and shows. He reinstated for the 1993-94 season and returned to Odessa to train.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BittyBug View Post
    That's a lot of ifs. How this thread got started down this road, I don't know. One poster alleged that Zmievskaya was taking 30%, but there was no link that I saw to substantiate that claim. And then everyone ran with it. Zmievskaya's been around this sport long enough that I think she deserves the benefit of the doubt until proven wrong, rather than idle speculation tarnishing her good name.
    I think I was the one who brought up the 30/40% figure. I know I read it somewhere, that Oksana said that was Galina's cut. The writer followed up with Galina and she refused to comment on the matter.

    I certainly don't mean to tarnish her good name. I think it was very kind of her to bring Oksana into her home and be both her coach and mother surrogate. There are no guarantees in life, and Oksana may never have developed her skating into superstardom, and Galina would know that. She obviously acted out of kindness and love for Oksana. I think she deserves a special acknowledgement for that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BittyBug View Post
    That's a lot of ifs. How this thread got started down this road, I don't know. One poster alleged that Zmievskaya was taking 30%, but there was no link that I saw to substantiate that claim. And then everyone ran with it. Zmievskaya's been around this sport long enough that I think she deserves the benefit of the doubt until proven wrong, rather than idle speculation tarnishing her good name.
    I have no link, but I remember from commentary from German Eurosport and state tv at the time, that it was indeed customary for coaches in the ex soviet states to take 30% of the earnings of the prize money from competitions. It was just a different, performance-based system of paying for training fees.
    Cheering for the headcases

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by my little pony View Post
    doesnt galina still have her OGM? if yes, i think that says a lot about her.
    No - there is a picture somewhere in the forums that shows Oksana (recently) holding it in a frame. A friend of hers posted it. I don't believe Galina ever took the medal at any time - it was a rumor.

    If all of these problems stem from her youth and lack of English, then how would she know to even get a lawyer? People have clearly taken advantage of her. It's sad.

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    I think we should wait for more facts before we determine whether William Morris indeed took advantage of her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    I think we should wait for more facts before we determine whether William Morris indeed took advantage of her.
    Agree - just because her current boyfriend believes she's owed money doesn't mean she actually is. William Morris is major, long established company and while it's possible that some shady employees took advantage of Oksana, as a company I can't imagine that would be their practice.

    At the same time, this wouldn't be the first time that someone enters into a contract or other agreements and later regrets it, or takes bad advice and only realizes it later. She might never get the money from the past, but hopefully she learns from it, dusts herself off, and moves forward.

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    At this point, it's hard to tell how much of her "tumultuous life" was in fact, true; or something invented by many hands, over time..
    That said. I hope that whatever the contract situation is, it can be worked out, justly.

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