Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 63
  1. #1

    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    3,961
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    8219

    Ilynikh/Katsalapov/Morozov/Sinitsina drama

    Please feel free to continue the discussion on Elena Ilinykh, Nikita Katsalapov, Nikolai Morozov and Victoria Sinitsina, the speculations on the reasons for their break ups etc here

    ETA: Maybe an admin can copy some content from the discussion from the "From Russia with Love" thread to this thread and please correct my typo on Ilinykh in the thread title. Thanks!

  2. #2
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    1,467
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    No fun, where's Ruslan ?
    also add in Ryzanaova / Guerreiro / Tkahenko or whomever switcher-oo sprouts

    headline it: Russian Roulette

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    24,950
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    91872
    This off season has definitely not been boring.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    3,961
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    8219
    Quote Originally Posted by love_skate2011 View Post
    No fun, where's Ruslan ?
    also add in Ryzanaova / Guerreiro / Tkahenko or whomever switcher-oo sprouts

    headline it: Russian Roulette
    Yes, I thought about Ruslan. But poor Ruslan I guess is a little boring in comparison and probably was the last to know what was going on. And his last name is quite long...

    Russian roulette would be a cool headline, I agree!

  5. #5
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    684
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Could someone explain to me why I&K went back and forth between Zhulin and Morozov and where these rumours about Elena's bad work ethic came from? Was Zhulin the one who complained about her?

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    2,676
    vCash
    532
    Rep Power
    16655
    Quote Originally Posted by Xela M View Post
    Could someone explain to me why I&K went back and forth between Zhulin and Morozov and where these rumours about Elena's bad work ethic came from? Was Zhulin the one who complained about her?
    Zhulin complained about both of them. He said that the couple had bad work ethic.

    Elena's bad work ethic came from bek. Until the I/K split, the professionals (Tarasova/Zhulin) have always commented on the couple's bad work ethic. bek started speculating whether IF the bad work ethicwould be Elena's, it may have been her fault that Katsalapov missed the twizzles because she could have been refusing to practice the twizzles with him. But no supporting evidence. The problem is that after the split, everyone follows their own agenda, so someone may blame Katsalapov, someone may blame Elena. If you take rumour (bad work ethic) and change it just slightly (instead of both of the having bad work ethic change it just to Elena), it will easily stick because people may remember that there were some rumours about bad work ethic. So this is the way how false rumours are created.

  7. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    684
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Ahhh... I see, but given the fact that Nikita was always the weaker skater and that he was the one who missed the twizzles, we can just as easily assume he is the one with the bad work ethic?

  8. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    810
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    Zhulin complained about both of them. He said that the couple had bad work ethic.

    Elena's bad work ethic came from bek. Until the I/K split, the professionals (Tarasova/Zhulin) have always commented on the couple's bad work ethic.
    I've read this phrase 'bad work ethic' many times here now. Can someone explain in more detail what a bad work ethic for ice dancers means? Does it mean not showing up to the arena on time? Not keeping in good physical condition? Eating poorly and going out late at night partying?

    How did the work ethic of I&K differ from that of other dance teams like C&L, W&P, P&B, etc.?

  9. #9
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
    1,429
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Xela M View Post
    Ahhh... I see, but given the fact that Nikita was always the weaker skater and that he was the one who missed the twizzles, we can just as easily assume he is the one with the bad work ethic?
    OTOH, if you look at their skating 4 years ago and now, he is the one who improved dramatically. She doesn't looks to have improved her skating skills nearly as much (but she was much stronger to start with). The biggest change for her was to master a wide array of over the top facial expressions.

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Greater Boston, MA
    Posts
    640
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Susan M View Post
    The biggest change for her was to master a wide array of over the top facial expressions.
    LOL, so true! I think a lot of her practice time is spent in front of the mirror. :-)

  11. #11
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    İstanbul
    Posts
    338
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Elena Ilinykh is that good she is Olympic Bronze Medalist without practicing. WOW Looks like manipulation of bek is working.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xela M View Post
    Ahhh... I see, but given the fact that Nikita was always the weaker skater and that he was the one who missed the twizzles, we can just as easily assume he is the one with the bad work ethic?
    I'm not going to blame only Nikita like bek person did to Elena. But he have problem with work too. When he practiced twizzles he never try to save them after mistake. He just let it go. Of course this hunted him at the Worlds. I think he doesn't like to do twizzles or train them. Elena couldn't make him work more with twizzles. This is where rumour come from about Nkita's bad work ethic.

    His practice
    http://youtu.be/3iA-6VzGPfo?t=52s

    His competition
    http://youtu.be/D12GCikrSOE?t=3m19s
    Last edited by elif; 04-22-2014 at 05:47 AM.

  12. #12
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    684
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by elif View Post
    That really was a headcasey performance by Nikita! Elena was being so nice about it afterwards though, despite all the split rumours. She could have punched him

  13. #13
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    İstanbul
    Posts
    338
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Xela M View Post
    That really was a headcasey performance by Nikita! Elena was being so nice about it afterwards though, despite all the split rumours. She could have punched him
    She is practicing that look much harder than Nikita practicing his twizzles.

  14. #14

    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    2,676
    vCash
    532
    Rep Power
    16655
    Quote Originally Posted by The Observer View Post
    I've read this phrase 'bad work ethic' many times here now. Can someone explain in more detail what a bad work ethic for ice dancers means? Does it mean not showing up to the arena on time? Not keeping in good physical condition? Eating poorly and going out late at night partying?
    the truth is, no one really knows whether I/K had a bad work ethic. What happened was that as juniors I/K has shown a lot of promise. Then their season 2010-11 wasn't as successful as expected (4th and 3rd at the GP and 3rd at Russian nationals - below Riazanova-Tkachenko!) and at the end of that season they left Zhulin and went to Morozov. The split was not amicable at all. Zhulin at that time lost both his best couples (I-K and Pechalat-Bourzat) and has taken it pretty personally that I/K left him. He made several interviews where he blamed the couple for their lack of results at the beginning of the season; he claimed that they have bad work ethics (meaning probably that they don't work as hard as they should. He didn't specify whether they don't put in enough hours or what exactly is the problem). He seems to have difficulty to let go - although they left him in spring 2011, he has done interviews where he spoke about them negatively even last year (one would have thought that he would get over that by then!) Tarasova stated at that time that they were undertrained. I/K claimed that Zhulin have spent a lot of time doing his ice skating shows and did not give them enough time. They claimed that they had to learn some things by watching things from the internet because there was no one who could show them/teach them how to do it. If that is the truth, than it is appalling! No elite level skater can substitute coaching with internet! I think the truth may be somewhere in the middle. Maybe they did not have the motivation because they felt that their coach does not care enough. I think we will never know. But Zhulin repeated it so many times in the interview that it became generally accepted truth that they are a bit lazy.

  15. #15

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    934
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    7453
    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    Then their season 2010-11 wasn't as successful as expected (4th and 3rd at the GP and 3rd at Russian nationals - below Riazanova-Tkachenko!) and at the end of that season they left Zhulin and went to Morozov.
    I was always frustrated about those who thought their senior debut season was seen as unsucessful. The GP was messy but still they had reasonable results, they were 4th at Europeans, handily beating R/T & cementing themselves as Russian no. 2, at Worlds Nikita was a mess but they were still 7th, which I think was the highest debut by a Russian dance team ever. People seemed to expect them to turn senior and immediately start to dominate at least in Russia, and that was never going to happen with teams like R/T & B/S who had a couple of seasons of senior experience over them. It also didn't help that the Shibs who came out of juniors at the same time had their one wildly successful season, and there were the inevitable comparisions about the two teams. But considering the season as a whole, the kneejerk reaction from the Federation that they had to have a new coach was ridiculous.

  16. #16

    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    2,676
    vCash
    532
    Rep Power
    16655
    Quote Originally Posted by morqet View Post
    I was always frustrated about those who thought their senior debut season was seen as unsucessful. The GP was messy but still they had reasonable results, they were 4th at Europeans, handily beating R/T & cementing themselves as Russian no. 2, at Worlds Nikita was a mess but they were still 7th, which I think was the highest debut by a Russian dance team ever. People seemed to expect them to turn senior and immediately start to dominate at least in Russia, and that was never going to happen with teams like R/T & B/S who had a couple of seasons of senior experience over them. It also didn't help that the Shibs who came out of juniors at the same time had their one wildly successful season, and there were the inevitable comparisions about the two teams. But considering the season as a whole, the kneejerk reaction from the Federation that they had to have a new coach was ridiculous.
    I/K were unlucky that they entered senior level when Dominiva-Shabalin and Khokhlova/Novitsky retired. So suddenly they not only moved to seniors which is hard enough for any couple, but they were expected to be the Russian dance team number two (and Russians have high expectations from their top two dance teams regarding results). When Bobrova-Soloviev moved to seniors, if I recall correctly, they were lucky that they were Russian number 3 couple, so there were not such expectations as they were on I/K when they moved. So saying that they had not a great result is relative - being 4th and 3rd at the GP in your first season may be considered a pretty decent result for anyone, but not if you are Russian dance couple number 2. And the fact that they made mistake at the nationals which resulted in them being beaten by Riazanova/Tkachenko did not help either. That's why the Federation did not consider that success.

  17. #17
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    1,943
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by elif View Post
    WOW!!!

  18. #18
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    810
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    the truth is, no one really knows whether I/K had a bad work ethic. What happened was that as juniors I/K has shown a lot of promise. Then their season 2010-11 wasn't as successful as expected (4th and 3rd at the GP and 3rd at Russian nationals - below Riazanova-Tkachenko!) and at the end of that season they left Zhulin and went to Morozov. The split was not amicable at all. Zhulin at that time lost both his best couples (I-K and Pechalat-Bourzat) and has taken it pretty personally that I/K left him. He made several interviews where he blamed the couple for their lack of results at the beginning of the season; he claimed that they have bad work ethics (meaning probably that they don't work as hard as they should. He didn't specify whether they don't put in enough hours or what exactly is the problem). He seems to have difficulty to let go - although they left him in spring 2011, he has done interviews where he spoke about them negatively even last year (one would have thought that he would get over that by then!) Tarasova stated at that time that they were undertrained. I/K claimed that Zhulin have spent a lot of time doing his ice skating shows and did not give them enough time. They claimed that they had to learn some things by watching things from the internet because there was no one who could show them/teach them how to do it. If that is the truth, than it is appalling! No elite level skater can substitute coaching with internet! I think the truth may be somewhere in the middle. Maybe they did not have the motivation because they felt that their coach does not care enough. I think we will never know. But Zhulin repeated it so many times in the interview that it became generally accepted truth that they are a bit lazy.
    Thank-you for the information.

    I had not read the previous comments about I&K from Zhulin and Tarasova. I just assumed that these were rumours from skating fans that people had read on the skating forums. If these comments originally come from Zhulin and Tarasova, perhaps they have a seed of truth in them.

    And yes, that is surprising to hear that skaters say they had to watch skating videos on the internet to figure out how to do certain moves! They should have plenty of opportunity to learn those things from their coaches. (Although maybe for the younger generation of kids today in the social media age it helps them to learn things on the Internet?)

  19. #19

    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    2,676
    vCash
    532
    Rep Power
    16655
    Quote Originally Posted by The Observer View Post
    I had not read the previous comments about I&K from Zhulin and Tarasova. I just assumed that these were rumours from skating fans that people had read on the skating forums. If these comments originally come from Zhulin and Tarasova, perhaps they have a seed of truth in them.
    Not necessarily. To be fair, Zhulin did have quite a few shows at that time, and not everyone is so honest to say "Maybe I should have given them more time/more attention". Especially because they left him and he took it so personally, he did not have reason to admit that he has done something wrong.

    Take notice this season - Bobrova-Soloviev had the worst program they could have. Don't get me wrong, I liked the idea, but the program just was not working no matter what Zhulin did. So the program he made them completely messed up their chances at the Olympics this season. (they were one of the 5 couples fighting for the bronze, and with that program they suddenly did not have much chance for the medal). Did Zhulin do an interview where he admitted that he messed up? He didn't. Bobrova-Soloviev don't blame him (see the recent interview) but if they did and as a result decided to leave him, I wonder whether we would be suddenly reading interviews where he claims that Bobrova-Soloviev's working ethic were low this season.

    In regards to Tarasova, her comments were that I/K were under-trained (or unprepared or something similar). She did not comment on the reasons why, because she was not present at the practices, so she is not the person to know whether they were under-trained because they were refusing to practice enough or whether the coach was not there.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Observer View Post
    And yes, that is surprising to hear that skaters say they had to watch skating videos on the internet to figure out how to do certain moves! They should have plenty of opportunity to learn those things from their coaches. (Although maybe for the younger generation of kids today in the social media age it helps them to learn things on the Internet?)
    Trust me that this is not how you learn skating. Not at their level. At their level you need constant feedback when you are learning something new. How things feel is not the same as how they look. Sometimes you think you got something and a coach may look at it and see how wrong it is. So while you are doing it, someone needs to be constantly correcting you. Learning it from internet may help you learn some new steps but it does not give you any feedback about what you are doing wrong. And ice dance is about a little tiny details. How things look is very important in ice dance.

  20. #20

    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Canada baby!
    Age
    38
    Posts
    7,591
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    3318
    Best Russian debut at World's was in 1993 with Anjelika Krylova and Vladimir Federov. They won the bronze

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •