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  1. #1
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    Toe Walley and Toe Loop: why not counted as 2 different jumps?

    I've wondered this for a while: why isn't a true toe walley (that is, a jump taken off from the inside edge of the non-toe-picking foot) considered a separate jump from the toe loop? Granted, when most people do the toe walley entrance, they do in fact do a toe loop by taking off from the outside edge of the non-picking foot. But it's my understanding (as explained by an announcer) that a true toe walley does take off from the inside edge. Therefore, I have always thought of the toe loop and the "true" toe walley to be the equivalent of the flip and the lutz, with the toe walley being more difficult than the toe loop due to its counter-rotation. This would make the toe walley a 7th jump.

    Anyone know why it's not considered a separate jump?

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    Years ago (20-25) it was counted as a separate jump. Saw several free style tests passed that used the walley as a second double jump. I do not know why they are counted the same now.
    "awwww....shades of Janet Lynn" - Dick Button on anyone who makes more than one mistake in their program.

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    Here is the thread that last discussed this: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...-the-same-jump

    That will probably answer your question

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    Quote Originally Posted by skatemommy View Post
    Years ago (20-25) it was counted as a separate jump. Saw several free style tests passed that used the walley as a second double jump. I do not know why they are counted the same now.
    Because a whole generation (20-25 years) couldn't do then distinctly or even tell the difference

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemba View Post
    I've wondered this for a while: why isn't a true toe walley (that is, a jump taken off from the inside edge of the non-toe-picking foot) considered a separate jump from the toe loop? Granted, when most people do the toe walley entrance, they do in fact do a toe loop by taking off from the outside edge of the non-picking foot. But it's my understanding (as explained by an announcer) that a true toe walley does take off from the inside edge. Therefore, I have always thought of the toe loop and the "true" toe walley to be the equivalent of the flip and the lutz, with the toe walley being more difficult than the toe loop due to its counter-rotation. This would make the toe walley a 7th jump.

    Anyone know why it's not considered a separate jump?
    They should be considered separate jumps. The entrances are different.

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    Here is the thread that last discussed this: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...-the-same-jump That will probably answer your question
    Antmanb, thank you for the link. I'll enjoy reading what everyone had to say.

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    I think they are. I remember one year after the Zayak rule was implemented Zayak doing 4 triple toes in the program, but 2 were toe loops and 2 were toe walleys. Nancy did 3 triple toes (or atleast was supposed to) in her long program in the 92 season, the triple toe-triple toe, and a triple toe walley. There are other examples, but it seems atleast for a period they were considered 2 different jumps, otherwise skaters couldn't have done this without penalty.

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    They probably didn't want to return to the days a bunch of skaters would do 4 or 5 triple toe loops like Dubravcic, DeVries, Zayak and others.

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    From a technical calling point of view, it is much easier to distinguish between a flip and lutz off a wrong edge than a toe loop because of the entrances to the jumps. And I don't know if any coaches actually teach a toe walley these days either. They just focus on the toe loop.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_8lRha-FoQ

    Between 0:10 and 1:05 Roz Sumners and Michelle Kwan do some shop talk, and it is very clear they both did a triple toe walley, which they considered distinct from the triple toe loop.

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