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  1. #401

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    Quote Originally Posted by sap5 View Post
    ETA: LOL! Caption this!
    Hmmmm ... a challenge I'm going to take you up on

    Tessa is throwing daggers at NM because he's in her line of sight. Oh wait, that's not true, she's actually getting into HER zone.
    Scott is looking for guidance from above so that there are no mistakes when they skate their FD.
    Lady on left is in the middle of rolling her eyes because NM dares to be near HER Tessa & Scott.
    Lady in the middle is checking out Tessa's outfit and wondering if she dare wear anything "so revealing" for the love interest in her life.
    Lady on the right is thinking of what she'd like to be doing with Scott and that he should win PSOTY this year.

    OK, that's my imagination trying to work. Next?
    Crazy about sports!

  2. #402

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    For those who understand from intelligent russian FS fans

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aakfkGBh-fM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV-Z...D03aakfkGBh-fM

    If someone wish i could give link for downloading full vesrion in PM
    Last edited by pani; 11-20-2012 at 04:14 PM.

  3. #403

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    Quote Originally Posted by sap5 View Post
    Nice try, pani. Everyone on this board knows that I like both teams, and that I've praised Carmen several times this season already. If you disagree with some things I say, that's fine. Lying about my posts is not. Finally, stop mentioning D/W in this thread. You are the only one who does that, and it annoys everyone, especially you!
    Why? If you could post about V-M i coudnt post about D-W? Sorry, but i never saw in your posts nothing about D-W need to skate and change in there skation, but you spend all your day to try show Carmen is nothing risky and they didnt made they need to do.

  4. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by pani View Post
    Why? If you could post about V-M i coudnt post about D-W? Sorry, but i never saw in your posts nothing about D-W need to skate and change in there skation, but you spend all your day to try show Carmen is nothing risky and they didnt made they need to do.
    I'm not sure why you choose to misunderstand my posts. It's sad, because I like to have discussions, but you make it very difficult.

    If you could post about V-M i coudnt post about D-W?
    Well, this is the V/M thread. So I post about V/M about in here, not D/W. I thought that's what you're always telling people to do? My posts about D/W are generally in the D/W thread.

    Sorry, but i never saw in your posts nothing about D-W need to skate and change in there skation, but you spend all your day to try show Carmen is nothing risky and they didnt made they need to do.
    I'm pretty sure you've never actually read my posts. That's why you've never seen anything about changes I'd like to see in D/W's skating. Just recently I posted that I wished they hadn't included a lift from DF in their Notre Dame free dance, and I hoped that they would replace that.

    I never said Carmen as a program wasn't risky -- anyone can see that it is. I said that doing something "overtly sexual" wasn't risky. In the past, I would have thought that you missed that nuance because English isn't your first language. However, I have experienced your posts enough over the years to know that you know the difference. Why you enjoy bullying people online is something I'll never understand, but I won't stand for it.

    ETA: If you want to continue this, feel free to PM me. I'm sure the rest of the board would rather have this offline.
    Last edited by sap5; 11-20-2012 at 04:39 PM.

  5. #405

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    Quote Originally Posted by pani View Post
    For those who understand from intelligent russian FS fans

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aakfkGBh-fM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV-Z...D03aakfkGBh-fM

    If someone wish i could give link for downloading full vesrion in PM
    Thanks for the links. Elina Garanca is a good Carmen (she has a fabulous voice, one of the best mezzos today), but I think I prefer Beatrice Uria-Monzon.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otJ0Mq2nqCk

  6. #406

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    Quote Originally Posted by sap5 View Post
    I
    I'm pretty sure you've never actually read my posts. That's why you've never seen anything about changes I'd like to see in D/W's skating. Just recently I posted that I wished they hadn't included a lift from DF in their Notre Dame free dance, and I hoped that they would replace that.
    O, really? Yes, this is big deal, when V-M need to skate something about robots.
    Sorry, but i really dont like people who try to made impression they love both teams, but then discuss only one team didnt made nothing they need to do and said about D-W FD - o, this is amazing, amazing connection
    Sorry, i think i need to stop joking too much.
    Take it easy, your D-W will have 120 this week-end for best FD in history. Could you spend this time in D-W thread?

  7. #407

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    Quote Originally Posted by IoanaC View Post
    Thanks for the links. Elina Garanca is a good Carmen (she has a fabulous voice, one of the best mezzos today), but I think I prefer Beatrice Uria-Monzon.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otJ0Mq2nqCk
    I think this is very traditional version, when Elina Garanca is pure sex I love both.

  8. #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by pani View Post
    I think this is very traditional version, when Elina Garanca is pure sex I love both.
    I nominate my favourite Carmen, not known as she would deserve: Rinat Shaham

    Not a very good quality video, unfortunately
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKhDs...ure=plpp_video

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8U7U8...ure=plpp_video


    And just an audio version
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfKH2...ure=plpp_video

  9. #409

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    Quote Originally Posted by cris_c View Post
    I nominate my favourite Carmen, not known as she would deserve: Rinat Shaham

    Not a very good quality video, unfortunately
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKhDs...ure=plpp_video

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8U7U8...ure=plpp_video


    And just an audio version
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfKH2...ure=plpp_video
    Thanks! Very interesting.

  10. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarieM View Post
    What is really intriguing is why they brought someone from outside to work on the choreography. Because they should have done that a LOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNG time ago. I hope it sticks for next year. It sucks when they play it safe.
    I think it's a bit much to ask skaters in their teens or very early 20's to dictate terms to a world-leading coach. Especially when they are athletes who have worked hard and made sacrifices to succeed and want to win. Also Tessa's surgeries and physio/rehab took a lot of their attention. Fortunately she now seems able to train freely; they are also older, have been through a lot and probably have a much stronger sense of their own vision. But they are still just 23/25 and it seems that they appreciated the positive feedback in Russia a great deal. They need that feedback, to hear that the artistic and technical risks are appreciated, especially since sportswriters in Canada typically know zero about figure skating and won't give them any credit for those risks if they don't pay off (with scores).

    In their Q&A with Russian fans, it turns out that they redid the program almost completely in August, based on Jennifer Swan's input. They have not had a lot of time to refine this version of the program yet. Jennifer Swan is Tessa's original dance teacher who worked with her for many years; Marina didn't find her. With the fans, they carefully skirt the question of how much input percentage-wise Swan and Zoueva contributed, but people will draw their own conclusions. Naturally Marina played a vital role in integrating the choreographer's vision into a COP dance program, and regardless of the exact sequence of events that led to the re-choreographing in August, she will want primary credit (if the risks pay off).

    All teams "play it safe" to some degree in the Olympic year. I hope they get a lot of positive feedback from people who appreciate this year's program, which will encourage them (as still relatively young ice dancers) to continue to push boundaries (because there are plenty of voices who will bash them, and the program as well, for a variety of reasons).

  11. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    Can anyone share some articles or insights about Swan's working relationship with V&M? I agree that Swan being kind of V&M's "personal choreographer" is a huge plus for them. Modern dance/ballet choreographers working with ice dancers who have great technique is such a winning combo that I don't know why everyone doesn't do it (Shanti Rushpaul ). And I really love that the relationship is organic, stemming from Tessa having a real dance background, and not a meeting done for show (like when Debi Thomas had Baryshnikov come in for her Carmen, lol).

    Basically I am curious to know where she is located and if she is the type of choreographer who comes in as a one-off and does the program for them and maybe visits once or twice a year to tweak, or if she's part of their daily or weekly regimen. If the latter, she probably couldn't work with any other teams outside of Detroit.

    To be honest, I bet she could do amazing things with Pechalat/Bourzat, though that would never happen unless and until either they or V&M turn pro.
    Jennifer Swan was mentioned in their book, page 40, mostly related to Tessa turning down her spot at the National Ballet School. She's from London, Ontario. Tessa enrolled in her "Baby Ballet" program when she was 3. There is a very nice quote from her describing Tessa as a kid. From Google, here is the most interesting bit I found:

    The artistic director Jennifer Swan is an Associate of the Royal Academy of Dance (ARAD), the Imperial Society of Teacher of Dance (AISTD) and the Scottish Teachers’ Dance Association (ASTDA). She is the founder of Swan Studio Dance, the Children’s Dance Project and Performance Architects. She is a choreographer and dance educator throughout North America with over 20 years experience. She has collaborated on the choreography for the 2009 Bronze World Medalists, Tessa Virtue/Scott Moir, (2008) Free Dance Program.
    Source

    I am really not sure how to interpret the last part. Does it mean she has input in UofC also? Or maybe just a typo? Have Tessa and Scott revealed before any outside choreographer they have had? I am a post-Oly fan so I don't know much before that, though I kind of sense that the info about Jennifer Swan being involved n PF was kind of new.

    Quote Originally Posted by Emdee View Post
    I somehow cannot see the disney in T&S at all. Certainly not starting with Valse Trieste. Hallelujah was a masterpiece in sensuality and even I want to hold your hand had its stroking moments. Carmen was a natural mature fruition in their career.
    My favorite IWTHYH performance was from TEB last year. Their upper body movements were particularly sensuous, more so compared to other performances I think. And yes, as many stated already they really timed this Carmen FD at the most appropriate time in their career. My favorite quote about this goes something like "everything they've done before have led them to this." Maybe from you or from Carmen O. or from IoanaC (can't really remember sorry) but it sums it up nicely.
    Last edited by Sahararainfall; 11-20-2012 at 06:33 PM.

  12. #412

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    Last edited by pani; 11-20-2012 at 07:40 PM.

  13. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sahararainfall View Post
    Jennifer Swan was mentioned in their book, page 40, mostly related to Tessa turning down her spot at the National Ballet School. She's from London, Ontario. Tessa enrolled in her "Baby Ballet" program when she was 3. There is a very nice quote from her describing Tessa as a kid. From Google, here is the most interesting bit I found:



    Source

    I am really not sure how to interpret the last part. Does it mean she has input in UofC also? Or maybe just a typo? Have Tessa and Scott revealed before any outside choreographer they have had? I am a post-Oly fan so I don't know much before that, though I kind of sense that the info about Jennifer Swan being involved n PF was kind of new.
    Yeah, probably a typo. Or maybe they meant 2008-09 season even though they didn't even compete in the 2008 portion of that season? They probably did the actual choreography for PF in 2008. Either way, the way they put it in the article is very confusing.

  14. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by pani View Post
    Thanks from me as a latvian FS fan . I saw the live broadcast of it from Met in cinema, and also have a DVD of it - but this is from another time, I think. It was/is great, really. And I don't think so just because I am Latvian like Garanca. I truly like her singing and her divaish presence on stage (especially perceivable in this role), but I also liked Alagna in the role of Jose, other singers, and the whole production. Actually, many say that Garanca is not right for Carmen, as she is too cold. Her approach to this role really was different from what we often see. In this Carmen, we can see that she really is just using Jose, playing with him for her own fun, and doesn't feel any kind of love towards him even for a moment. To me, her cruelty and coldness in this role was quite fascinating. I think it's quite close to Tessa's Carmen (if we still see her as Carmen, not just as a representation of emotions, as walei wrote) in their FD, except that they have that moment in their dance when Carmen seems close to loving Jose.
    Last edited by lauravvv; 11-20-2012 at 08:22 PM. Reason: reworded and added a small bit

  15. #415

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    Quote Originally Posted by lauravvv View Post
    I think it's quite close to Tessa's Carmen (if we still see her as Carmen, not just as a representation of emotions, as walei wrote) in their FD.
    Thats why i post link in this thread
    And i was talking more about russian-speaking fans

  16. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by pani View Post
    Thats why i post link in this thread
    And i was talking more about russian-speaking fans
    I understood that. But I thanked you as a latvian fan, because Elina Garanca is latvian too (if you didn't notice this in my previous post ), so I wanted to thank you for acknowledging and mentioning her. By the way, I speak russian too, although I am not russian .

  17. #417

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    Quote Originally Posted by lauravvv View Post
    I understood that. But I thanked you as a latvian fan, because Elina Garanca is latvian too (), so I wanted to thank you for acknowledging and mentioning her. By the way, I speak russian as well, although I am not russian .
    Like you understand, i am not russian too, but russian is my native language
    Last edited by pani; 11-20-2012 at 08:57 PM.

  18. #418

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    Quote Originally Posted by lauravvv View Post
    I think it's quite close to Tessa's Carmen (if we still see her as Carmen, not just as a representation of emotions, as walei wrote) in their FD, except that they have that moment in their dance when Carmen seems close to loving Jose.
    As I see it, they are embodying both the characters and their emotions. The evolution of the characters is the same as in the story/opera's libretto. I'll never get why some people say "it's not Carmen" and use this as an argument to justify their dislike of the program (the Sonia Bianchetti article, more recently - although she never likes what T&S do, so I'm not really surprised). All the pivotal moments and feelings in the story are portrayed in the program. Just because the ending isn't what people are used to seeing, i.e. her dying dramatically in Don Jose's arms, doesn't mean it's not actually Carmen. It baffles me sometimes that people are incapable of going beyond the first level of interpretation.

  19. #419

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    Quote Originally Posted by IoanaC View Post
    As I see it, they are embodying both the characters and their emotions. The evolution of the characters is the same as in the story/opera's libretto. I'll never get why some people say "it's not Carmen" and use this as an argument to justify their dislike of the program (the Sonia Bianchetti article, more recently - although she never likes what T&S do, so I'm not really surprised). All the pivotal moments and feelings in the story are portrayed in the program. Just because the ending isn't what people are used to seeing, i.e. her dying dramatically in Don Jose's arms, doesn't mean it's not actually Carmen. It baffles me sometimes that people are incapable of going beyond the first level of interpretation.
    Sonia Bianchetti liked Mahler And you must understand- she is Italian and must support Anna and Luca.
    Not all people. I think V-M understand, when they made this FD, not all people will love it, like last season D-W FD. But cant stop to say - i am happy this two grow up and show what nobody could show today
    And i am happy some FS fans, who never like V-M programs, but admit there skating skills, respect this FD.

  20. #420
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    Quote Originally Posted by IoanaC View Post
    As I see it, they are embodying both the characters and their emotions. The evolution of the characters is the same as in the story/opera's libretto. I'll never get why some people say "it's not Carmen" and use this as an argument to justify their dislike of the program (the Sonia Bianchetti article, more recently - although she never likes what T&S do, so I'm not really surprised). All the pivotal moments and feelings in the story are portrayed in the program. Just because the ending isn't what people are used to seeing, i.e. her dying dramatically in Don Jose's arms, doesn't mean it's not actually Carmen. It baffles me sometimes that people are incapable of going beyond the first level of interpretation.
    Haters are going to hate, and any excuse, no matter how illogical, will work.

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