Virtue and Moir #22 - To Russia with love

[Macassar88]

So --- I am absolutely the most ecstatic figure skating fan ever as my husband just surprised me with tickets to Canadians. I would love to go every year but this year I was dying (no pun intended) to go and see them do Carmen live. I do have to get through my daughter's wedding first but boy do I ever have a great reward to look forward to.

I think you're the only mom who would rather see Tessa and Scott than see her own daughter get married.

[martyross]

i think that Funny face was about a particular kind of love, actually it is related to the story and the characters of the movie, and i would describe it more as a particular malhincolic mood rather than a feeling of love in the full sense. the goal was perhaps to stage a relationship, recreating the Broadway feel, as opposed to bring the audience in two enamoured souls as in Mahler. it's the difference between seeing a couple with our eyes, and see it painted or staged. our reactions are different in the two cases. there are also some touches of irony in the FF program, remember the lines, "for you're no Mona Lisa", or "you cant blame me for feeling amorous". there was also a bitter-sweet tone in the last song. what i mean is that love has so many angles and aspects and can be portrayed in 100 different ways. T&S have showed several of these ways, the grief of separation with Umbrellas, the peaceful passion and happiness in Adagietto, lust and adultery in Latina, comedy and malincholy in Funny face and..well Carmen doesnt fall in the cathegory of Love as i said above (:

[Emdee]

yea.. in my book love and lust are not the same things and Carmen and Josè don't even love each other. otherwise, they wouldn't try to destroy each other as soon as troubles show up in this FD Tessa and Scott tried something really different, that goes well beyond a banal "love" story. as much as they're connected (especially through their stares) their souls are basically separated. they are both alone, not together, because each one has an agenda about their relationship. "La fleur" is just a temporary moment of harmony but it's evident that it can't last long. i think that the whole choreography speaks of unevenness and hardship, much more than "love". forgive my horrible english! :/(

Beautifully put ...so agree with you.

[clarie]

So --- I am absolutely the most ecstatic figure skating fan ever as my husband just surprised me with tickets to Canadians. I would love to go every year but this year I was dying (no pun intended) to go and see them do Carmen live. I do have to get through my daughter's wedding first but boy do I ever have a great reward to look forward to.

Sounds like you have a terrific hubinator puglover . Of all the competitions, Canadians is the one I think where you can just sit back and relax and enjoy their programs.......I'm envious (I'm going to Worlds, but I will probably be a basket case )

[walei]

I am so glad that V/M's Carmen not only incorporated modern movements, but also used a non-literal interpretation of the story. I agree with Martyross, this Carmen is not about what literally happened to Carmen and Don Jose but their emotions and torment with one another. Carmen didn't die in this FD because in the end she was the one that crushed Don Jose emotionally which caused him to murder her in desperation. Tessa and Scott weren't the physical Carmen and Don Jose but their emotions danced out on ice, and this adds so many layers to the interpretation. Marina did a great job by going with this concept.

Just to echo the sentiment that we will trust whatever music V/M choose to skate. I am going to Sigur Ros concert this Wednesday (front row center!!) and I was thinking how back in early summer I wanted them to skate to this band so much, then Carmen happened. And I have to say, their Carmen FD was infinitely better than whatever crap I had in imagined in my head

[Judy]

I isn't see Funny Face as anything but a character piece and not a love story.

[sap5]

And this is so funny V-M alwayse need to do something for you every time, when D-W didnt need to do this and even this yeat FD for you is amazing and Carmen - nothing speciall. Sorry, i understand you wish support D-W, but why in this thread?

Nice try, pani. Everyone on this board knows that I like both teams, and that I've praised Carmen several times this season already. If you disagree with some things I say, that's fine. Lying about my posts is not. Finally, stop mentioning D/W in this thread. You are the only one who does that, and it annoys everyone, especially you!

[sap5]

I get what you're saying as well. V&M's chemistry is a strength, so why not use it? That's what Zhulin said - they are one of the only couples who can really show the relationship between a man and a woman. Using that for the Olympics is good strategy no doubt. I would just like to see them go in a different direction because a) I think they can do it, and b) I would love to show all the naysayers who think they only do first love that they can do the exact opposite style just as well as anyone.

I'd like to see it just because I don't believe the man/woman relationship is their only strength. They are incredibly strong in that area, but I'd bet they are just as strong in other types of connection as well.

ETA: LOL! Caption this!

[sequins]

ETA: LOL! Caption this!

Oh that's just dying for a caption! Not just Tessa and Scott's expressions but the 3 ladies behind them in the crowd as well.

[Cherub721]

ETA: LOL! Caption this!

I'd caption myself saying I'm sorry I ever suggested they leave Zoueva.

[puglover]

I think you're the only mom who would rather see Tessa and Scott than see her own daughter get married.

Yikes - that didn't come out exactly the way I meant it. I am very excited to see my daughter get married. And I am very excited to see Tessa and Scott live.

[iggie]

who is in front of them?

[zilam98]

brunette behind scott: "oooh look at that tush"

[lulu]

who is in front of them?

Nikolai Morozov

[flowerpower]

i don't think it's even that. I think it's that we've gotten used to seeing Disney-esque programs because most teams have either been very young or have been siblings. Now that two skaters are out there acting like adults, it's thrown people into shock. I don't see anything controversial or shocking in V/M's Carmen. For me, past programs (like U&Z's "Blues for Klook") had a more sexual vibe.

I agree.

The possibility for talented young teams to rise successfully post-COP has resulted in the top dancers being much younger than in the past. I'm surprised that Marina first suggested Carmen for V/M 4-5 years ago, because back then they would have been much too young to do it justice. Now they have the maturity to explore this theme and have done it wonderfully, IMO.

I think that another factor at play in some people's reactions to the Carmen program may stem from some differences between (traditional) North American ice dance aesthetics vs. those of continental Europe. Stretching well back pre-COP, N.A. ice dance has had a strong ballroom influence, leading to programs that were typically squeaky-clean, whereas European ice dancers often brought an edginess and visceral emotion to some of their best programs. Needless to say, people can frame any type of aesthetic with positive or negative adjectives, depending on preferences and experience. I love contemporary ballet and modern dance and attend performances regularly; V/M's Carmen reflects what I am accustomed to seeing in those venues and I am thrilled to see them put it on the ice. Visceral expression that speaks to some fundamental elements of human experience, and to do that on top of the extreme technical demands of the piece provides the wow factor for me. Plus the musicality - every movement has purpose, each beat of the music is used. This is a program that will need the season to grow - like Tracy Wilson says there is no way a program this challenging can be skated error-free at the beginning of the season. I hope she can straighten out Brenda Irving and Rod Black when they prattle on, since they have no clue about what is actually difficult in ice dance.

Of course first love is also a fundamental element of human experience, and they've done a couple of very good programs on that theme. But for someone to say all their programs are about "first love" is absurd; trying to prove that canard wrong is a waste of time IMO. Those who succeed always have their detractors. The comments of people who actually know ice dance like Krylova, Navka, Staviski, Tracy Wilson, not to mention the praise of competitors like Katsalapov is far more important. V/M are skaters' skaters. They have also grown up now and their answers to the Russian fans' questions suggest they have a strong sense of vision for their programs. I hope they stick with that vision, even if they are bashed for it in some quarters.

[Shayii]

But, back onto the topic of V&M, this might have been discussed to death already (sorry, I haven't read the last few pages of the thread), but I'm not really understanding what people are finding "shocking" or "controversial" about Tessa & Scott's lifts in Carmen. Personally I really like the lift sequence.

I'm not seeing what's so controversial either. And some of the twitter comments this program has been getting because it's just so "risque" will have you rolling your eyes, majorly.

So --- I am absolutely the most ecstatic figure skating fan ever as my husband just surprised me with tickets to Canadians. I would love to go every year but this year I was dying (no pun intended) to go and see them do Carmen live. I do have to get through my daughter's wedding first but boy do I ever have a great reward to look forward to.

Aww, that's so exciting! The wedding that is, but also that you will get to see Tessa and Scott/Carmen in person. If I win the lottery before January, I'm so there.

I am so glad that V/M's Carmen not only incorporated modern movements, but also used a non-literal interpretation of the story. I agree with Martyross, this Carmen is not about what literally happened to Carmen and Don Jose but their emotions and torment with one another. Carmen didn't die in this FD because in the end she was the one that crushed Don Jose emotionally which caused him to murder her in desperation. Tessa and Scott weren't the physical Carmen and Don Jose but their emotions danced out on ice, and this adds so many layers to the interpretation. Marina did a great job by going with this concept.

Yes! Some of the criticism I've seen is that the program doesn't "look" like Carmen and you've just hit the nail on the head on why it's not supposed/doesn't look like the literal story--they're skating the emotions behind the story. I think it's brilliant really.

Ok so I finally saw the fanvid that the wonderful Russian fans created with Tessa and Scott and I am so appreciative that they did this. There were so many interesting things in the video that I wouldn't rehash since you guys have pretty much covered it, but I was surprised when Tessa said the main fabric used for her dress (not the skirt part) was gray and they then overlaid it with black lace. Except for the gray accents in the skirt I thought the dress was all black. Anyhow I found that particularly interesting.
ETA: This picture from the album that sap5 posted (thank you), really shows the detail of Tessa's dress that she described in the fanvid--it's beautiful. Oh one more thing (I think) Scott's shirt too is beautiful and sleek and so modern looking, I love it so much. In the fanvid Tessa mentions that it's made from bamboo, not sure, but that's what it sounded like to me IDK.

Some really great discussion going on in this thread re Carmen!

ETA: Also not sure if someone already mentioned this, but Tessa and Scott are ranked #1 again on the ISU world standing.

[MarieM]

What is really intriguing is why they brought someone from outside to work on the choreography. Because they should have done that a LOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNG time ago. I hope it sticks for next year. It sucks when they play it safe.

[bmcg]

What is really intriguing is why they brought someone from outside to work on the choreography. Because they should have done that a LOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNG time ago. I hope it sticks for next year. It sucks when they play it safe.

I've said it before and I can't say it enough that I hope they continue to work with Swan into next season as well. She brings out something special. Probably helps that she doesn't seem to work with anyone else and the connection with Tessa goes back to her childhood so she is working 100% for them.

I don't agree that they played it safe though. Technically they didn't and they always work hard to tell a story. What I do think though is that Marina (and Igor while he was around) couldn't fully serve any team for fear of showing favouritism. That it couldn't be anything other than a conflict of interest, trying to give the same to your teams (particularly the top two) meant you weren't going out of your way to make one the best. When one wants to improve something to put them ahead then the other is aware of the change and wants the same. But I do like that Tessa and Scott seemed very clear in that fan interview that they would be continuing to work with Swan throughout the season. I hope they insist on it next season as well.

[sap5]

What is really intriguing is why they brought someone from outside to work on the choreography. Because they should have done that a LOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNG time ago. I hope it sticks for next year. It sucks when they play it safe.

Actually, they did do that a long time ago. They worked with her for Pink Floyd, and I know they worked with outside choreographers for their Flamenco OD, and their Latin FD. My feeling is Tessa's injuries hampered them far more than we thought. Now that (hopefully) she's feeling good again, we are able to really see what they can do.

ETA: Also not sure if someone already mentioned this, but Tessa and Scott are ranked #1 again on the ISU world standing.

Ever since I learned that if you win the Olympics and Worlds in the same year, only one of those events is counted towards the rankings, I've thought the rankings are nothing but silliness.

[Cherub721]

I've said it before and I can't say it enough that I hope they continue to work with Swan into next season as well. She brings out something special. Probably helps that she doesn't seem to work with anyone else and the connection with Tessa goes back to her childhood so she is working 100% for them.

Can anyone share some articles or insights about Swan's working relationship with V&M? I agree that Swan being kind of V&M's "personal choreographer" is a huge plus for them. Modern dance/ballet choreographers working with ice dancers who have great technique is such a winning combo that I don't know why everyone doesn't do it (Shanti Rushpaul ). And I really love that the relationship is organic, stemming from Tessa having a real dance background, and not a meeting done for show (like when Debi Thomas had Baryshnikov come in for her Carmen, lol).

Basically I am curious to know where she is located and if she is the type of choreographer who comes in as a one-off and does the program for them and maybe visits once or twice a year to tweak, or if she's part of their daily or weekly regimen. If the latter, she probably couldn't work with any other teams outside of Detroit.

To be honest, I bet she could do amazing things with Pechalat/Bourzat, though that would never happen unless and until either they or V&M turn pro.