11-20-2012, 01:22 AM
I think you're the only mom who would rather see Tessa and Scott than see her own daughter get married.
Originally Posted by puglover
11-20-2012, 01:24 AM
i think that Funny face was about a particular kind of love, actually it is related to the story and the characters of the movie, and i would describe it more as a particular malhincolic mood rather than a feeling of love in the full sense. the goal was perhaps to stage a relationship, recreating the Broadway feel, as opposed to bring the audience in two enamoured souls as in Mahler. it's the difference between seeing a couple with our eyes, and see it painted or staged. our reactions are different in the two cases. there are also some touches of irony in the FF program, remember the lines, "for you're no Mona Lisa", or "you cant blame me for feeling amorous". there was also a bitter-sweet tone in the last song. what i mean is that love has so many angles and aspects and can be portrayed in 100 different ways. T&S have showed several of these ways, the grief of separation with Umbrellas, the peaceful passion and happiness in Adagietto, lust and adultery in Latina, comedy and malincholy in Funny face and..well Carmen doesnt fall in the cathegory of Love as i said above (:
11-20-2012, 01:54 AM
Beautifully put ...so agree with you.
Originally Posted by martyross
11-20-2012, 01:54 AM
Addicted to FSU
11-20-2012, 02:40 AM
I am so glad that V/M's Carmen not only incorporated modern movements, but also used a non-literal interpretation of the story. I agree with Martyross, this Carmen is not about what literally happened to Carmen and Don Jose but their emotions and torment with one another. Carmen didn't die in this FD because in the end she was the one that crushed Don Jose emotionally which caused him to murder her in desperation. Tessa and Scott weren't the physical Carmen and Don Jose but their emotions danced out on ice, and this adds so many layers to the interpretation. Marina did a great job by going with this concept.
Just to echo the sentiment that we will trust whatever music V/M choose to skate. I am going to Sigur Ros concert this Wednesday (front row center!!) and I was thinking how back in early summer I wanted them to skate to this band so much, then Carmen happened. And I have to say, their Carmen FD was infinitely better than whatever crap I had in imagined in my head
11-20-2012, 02:49 AM
I isn't see Funny Face as anything but a character piece and not a love story.
11-20-2012, 03:54 AM
Nice try, pani. Everyone on this board knows that I like both teams, and that I've praised Carmen several times this season already. If you disagree with some things I say, that's fine. Lying about my posts is not. Finally, stop mentioning D/W in this thread. You are the only one who does that, and it annoys everyone, especially you!
Originally Posted by pani
11-20-2012, 03:59 AM
I'd like to see it just because I don't believe the man/woman relationship is their only strength. They are incredibly strong in that area, but I'd bet they are just as strong in other types of connection as well.
Originally Posted by Cherub721
ETA: LOL! Caption this!
Last edited by sap5; 11-20-2012 at 04:22 AM.
11-20-2012, 04:57 AM
11-20-2012, 05:02 AM
I'd caption myself saying I'm sorry I ever suggested they leave Zoueva.
Originally Posted by sap5
11-20-2012, 05:05 AM
Yikes - that didn't come out exactly the way I meant it. I am very excited to see my daughter get married. And I am very excited to see Tessa and Scott live.
Originally Posted by Macassar88
11-20-2012, 05:06 AM
11-20-2012, 05:08 AM
brunette behind scott: "oooh look at that tush"
11-20-2012, 05:11 AM
Originally Posted by iggie
11-20-2012, 06:47 AM
Originally Posted by sap5
The possibility for talented young teams to rise successfully post-COP has resulted in the top dancers being much younger than in the past. I'm surprised that Marina first suggested Carmen for V/M 4-5 years ago, because back then they would have been much too young to do it justice. Now they have the maturity to explore this theme and have done it wonderfully, IMO.
I think that another factor at play in some people's reactions to the Carmen program may stem from some differences between (traditional) North American ice dance aesthetics vs. those of continental Europe. Stretching well back pre-COP, N.A. ice dance has had a strong ballroom influence, leading to programs that were typically squeaky-clean, whereas European ice dancers often brought an edginess and visceral emotion to some of their best programs. Needless to say, people can frame any type of aesthetic with positive or negative adjectives, depending on preferences and experience. I love contemporary ballet and modern dance and attend performances regularly; V/M's Carmen reflects what I am accustomed to seeing in those venues and I am thrilled to see them put it on the ice. Visceral expression that speaks to some fundamental elements of human experience, and to do that on top of the extreme technical demands of the piece provides the wow factor for me. Plus the musicality - every movement has purpose, each beat of the music is used. This is a program that will need the season to grow - like Tracy Wilson says there is no way a program this challenging can be skated error-free at the beginning of the season. I hope she can straighten out Brenda Irving and Rod Black when they prattle on, since they have no clue about what is actually difficult in ice dance.
Of course first love is also a fundamental element of human experience, and they've done a couple of very good programs on that theme. But for someone to say all their programs are about "first love" is absurd; trying to prove that canard wrong is a waste of time IMO. Those who succeed always have their detractors. The comments of people who actually know ice dance like Krylova, Navka, Staviski, Tracy Wilson, not to mention the praise of competitors like Katsalapov is far more important. V/M are skaters' skaters. They have also grown up now and their answers to the Russian fans' questions suggest they have a strong sense of vision for their programs. I hope they stick with that vision, even if they are bashed for it in some quarters.
11-20-2012, 09:14 AM
I'm not seeing what's so controversial either. And some of the twitter comments this program has been getting because it's just so "risque" will have you rolling your eyes, majorly.
Originally Posted by lulu
Aww, that's so exciting! The wedding that is, but also that you will get to see Tessa and Scott/Carmen in person. If I win the lottery before January, I'm so there.
Originally Posted by puglover
Yes! Some of the criticism I've seen is that the program doesn't "look" like Carmen and you've just hit the nail on the head on why it's not supposed/doesn't look like the literal story--they're skating the emotions behind the story. I think it's brilliant really.
Originally Posted by walei
Ok so I finally saw the fanvid that the wonderful Russian fans created with Tessa and Scott and I am so appreciative that they did this. There were so many interesting things in the video that I wouldn't rehash since you guys have pretty much covered it, but I was surprised when Tessa said the main fabric used for her dress (not the skirt part) was gray and they then overlaid it with black lace. Except for the gray accents in the skirt I thought the dress was all black. Anyhow I found that particularly interesting.
ETA: This picture from the album that sap5 posted (thank you), really shows the detail of Tessa's dress that she described in the fanvid--it's beautiful. Oh one more thing (I think) Scott's shirt too is beautiful and sleek and so modern looking, I love it so much. In the fanvid Tessa mentions that it's made from bamboo, not sure, but that's what it sounded like to me IDK.
Some really great discussion going on in this thread re Carmen!
ETA: Also not sure if someone already mentioned this, but Tessa and Scott are ranked #1 again on the ISU world standing.
Last edited by Shayii; 11-20-2012 at 09:36 AM.
11-20-2012, 09:21 AM
What is really intriguing is why they brought someone from outside to work on the choreography. Because they should have done that a LOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNG time ago. I hope it sticks for next year. It sucks when they play it safe.
11-20-2012, 01:42 PM
I've said it before and I can't say it enough that I hope they continue to work with Swan into next season as well. She brings out something special. Probably helps that she doesn't seem to work with anyone else and the connection with Tessa goes back to her childhood so she is working 100% for them.
Originally Posted by MarieM
I don't agree that they played it safe though. Technically they didn't and they always work hard to tell a story. What I do think though is that Marina (and Igor while he was around) couldn't fully serve any team for fear of showing favouritism. That it couldn't be anything other than a conflict of interest, trying to give the same to your teams (particularly the top two) meant you weren't going out of your way to make one the best. When one wants to improve something to put them ahead then the other is aware of the change and wants the same. But I do like that Tessa and Scott seemed very clear in that fan interview that they would be continuing to work with Swan throughout the season. I hope they insist on it next season as well.
11-20-2012, 02:46 PM
Actually, they did do that a long time ago. They worked with her for Pink Floyd, and I know they worked with outside choreographers for their Flamenco OD, and their Latin FD. My feeling is Tessa's injuries hampered them far more than we thought. Now that (hopefully) she's feeling good again, we are able to really see what they can do.
Originally Posted by MarieM
Ever since I learned that if you win the Olympics and Worlds in the same year, only one of those events is counted towards the rankings, I've thought the rankings are nothing but silliness.
Originally Posted by Shayii
11-20-2012, 04:33 PM
Can anyone share some articles or insights about Swan's working relationship with V&M? I agree that Swan being kind of V&M's "personal choreographer" is a huge plus for them. Modern dance/ballet choreographers working with ice dancers who have great technique is such a winning combo that I don't know why everyone doesn't do it (Shanti Rushpaul ). And I really love that the relationship is organic, stemming from Tessa having a real dance background, and not a meeting done for show (like when Debi Thomas had Baryshnikov come in for her Carmen, lol).
Originally Posted by bmcg
Basically I am curious to know where she is located and if she is the type of choreographer who comes in as a one-off and does the program for them and maybe visits once or twice a year to tweak, or if she's part of their daily or weekly regimen. If the latter, she probably couldn't work with any other teams outside of Detroit.
To be honest, I bet she could do amazing things with Pechalat/Bourzat, though that would never happen unless and until either they or V&M turn pro.