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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by iggie View Post
    i hear people say that the judges don't like the program ala sphilband's comment. i think people are still in a 6.0 mood where they think their reaction to the program actually matters. it doesn't. it doesn't matter if you like it or don't. what matters are the movements that make up the finished product. are they on the right edge? did they hold the lift long enough? that is what is judged, by levels, goe, pcs... and there is actual criteria for each number.

    anyway, i had someone check the scores on their iphone for me. i subtracted the sd scores and spent 6 hours wondering why they scored so low. ugh.
    I disagree. If you think about winning, then yes, it doesn't matter. I am not thinking about the title, I am thinking this is a program with an unlimited artistic value. The fact that so many people in the figure skating world appreciate it makes me feel proud for them. Yeah, come Worlds this might not matter, but I can appreciate it all the same.

  2. #122
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    i am talking about the marks and what people thinks determines those marks. i am proud of the program but i can't wait for it to gell. it's a brilliant program, but it deserves that moment when it all comes together. i love those moments when you're caught up in it and only after do you remember it's a competition and they aced it. that to me is the perfect blend.
    Last edited by iggie; 11-11-2012 at 01:17 AM.

  3. #123
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    Oh, yeah, well, people will always try to find a way to justify why the marks were fair or not. I do think that minus one for the step sequence was harsh, but, again, that's just me. Maybe that judge noticed something.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by iggie View Post
    i just realized that tessa does this backflip, twist in mid air to start the second last lift. woah.
    Yep. It's a lift worthy of level 5!

  5. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by iggie View Post
    i hear people say that the judges don't like the program ala sphilband's comment. i think people are still in a 6.0 mood where they think their reaction to the program actually matters. it doesn't. it doesn't matter if you like it or don't. what matters are the movements that make up the finished product. are they on the right edge? did they hold the lift long enough? that is what is judged, by levels, goe, pcs... and there is actual criteria for each number.

    anyway, i had someone check the scores on their iphone for me. i subtracted the sd scores and spent 6 hours wondering why they scored so low. ugh.
    Quote Originally Posted by iggie View Post
    gerbil, i didn't even know there was a deduction. when i came home and saw the minus one, i bumped the score mentally up to 104.

    it is a cool program, but if they have to get the technical part right because it is a technical exercise at its heart. they can push themselves, but in doing so, they can't sacrifce the technique. as cool as it is, they're not being marked for "cool"

    it's their second competition and they will get their feet under them soon. and they have a good chunk of time to regroup and push this program forward.
    Actually, the judges reaction of whether they like it or not does still matter. It will factor in the way they come up with the PCS score. If you like at the criteria, whether you feel they met it, and how well they did so, is subjective.

    The program is of course dependent on great technique, but a truly great program is not a technical exercise at its heart. It should have a soul at its heart. Some teams forget this because they're so focused on getting all the points in CoP that they can. I believe that's really why many people in the figure skating world like Carmen so much. It's one of the first times under CoP where a program isn't a technical exercise at its heart.

  6. #126
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    I think I prefer SC version even with the mistakes. Here they did seen slower at times and tentative. Given how their practice went it is still a job well done. As for that level 2 and negative GOE, we need BKFan to the rescue!

  7. #127
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    Last edited by iggie; 11-11-2012 at 01:49 AM.

  8. #128
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    I do not know what language this is, it's similar to Italian. They liked it very much too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=lJ36YcJ-VGM

    Edited to add: Sorry, that's not the video I meant. I cannot find it right now. This one I think is... Russian? When I find the one that sounded similar to Italian I will post it too. I remember it was the whole dance event.
    Last edited by Golightly; 11-11-2012 at 01:48 AM.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by sap5 View Post
    Actually, the judges reaction of whether they like it or not does still matter. It will factor in the way they come up with the PCS score. If you like at the criteria, whether you feel they met it, and how well they did so, is subjective.

    The program is of course dependent on great technique, but a truly great program is not a technical exercise at its heart. It should have a soul at its heart. Some teams forget this because they're so focused on getting all the points in CoP that they can. I believe that's really why many people in the figure skating world like Carmen so much. It's one of the first times under CoP where a program isn't a technical exercise at its heart.
    Excellent points, and I absolutely agree with everything you said.

    To some extent, even though it's not really supposed to be, PCS does get used like the old artistic mark in 6.0, so yes, how the judges feel about the program is going to definitely influence what they think about the choreography, interpretation/timing, and performance. And why they are skating under IJS and they have to check off all the elements like everyone else, I absolutely think this program really does have soul at its heart. Inspite of all of the elements that are required, this program is still about the soul. That's what makes it so great. It really, truly is one of the first, if not the first time, under CoP that a program is not all about the elements, but about the story they tell on ice.

    ETA: And just to repeat myself, they will get there with the technical side. It's not fair to expect them to be skating this program as well right now as they did Funny Face at Worlds. The only time we haven't seen them get there all the way on the technical side are the two seasons that Tessa had to have surgery on her legs. Even at that, they very nearly pulled off the win in 2011.

  10. #130
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    Can anyone post the Eurosport version? I tried to find it but can't locate it anywhere. Thanks.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbkenn View Post
    Can anyone post the Eurosport version? I tried to find it but can't locate it anywhere. Thanks.

    Yes this!!

  12. #132
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    I really liked their short dance as well as the Shibs! (Can't find Shibs thread-who is the man in the KnC with Shibs?).
    Tessa's SD dress was pretty, however, why are some of the women wearing such short skirts in the Short Dance this season?
    I liked both FDs also. I really don't need the face to __ lift or thigh grabbing (stroking?) in a comp program for V/M. Didn't mind hearing Carmen at all. From the part of their long I saw, the Shibs recovered well. (Love that team too!!)

  13. #133

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    The man with the Shib's was Maurizio Margaglio
    ~I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I react to it.~ (Charles R. Swindoll)

  14. #134
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    It's funny, if this was last season I'd probably be more concerned (upset) about V&M but at the moment despite the score, I feel as if Tessa and Scott are pacing themselves although I'm not sure why the nerves are getting to them (I read the practice reports). Given the level of difficulty in Carmen I won't start to get concerned until after the GPF if they are still in the same place as they were at Skate Canada and this weekend. And I really don't think they will be. It is hard to make any really concrete changes with only one week between competitions. I'll join in the discussion regarding the technical levels and how well Tessa and Scott are able to execute their programs once the GPF is over.

    For the time being I'm just really loving watching their programs and the fact that TAT gave them a standing ovation. Coming from her, that is really making a statement.

    Speaking strictly from an artistic point of view, I think I fell in love with the SD and Carmen all over again. Watching V&M skate brings me back to what made me love the sport of icedancing in the first place. I love and agree with sap5's post about a program being more than just a technical exercise; having a soul. These are the kinds of programs that I've missed since the last Olympic games. So many of the dances post Vancouver (both SD's and FD's) have been merely technical exercises. Those programs served a purpose but once each competition and the season in general was over I really didn't go back and watch those programs over again. Even once all the dust settles after Worlds, V&M's SD and Carmen in particular will be classics. Already, I've lost count of how many times I've watched both programs.

  15. #135
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    Thanks Twilight.

  16. #136

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    ITA with you Carmen! I was most into ice dance between 1992- 2002. A few programs have stood out since then but not in the same way as it used to be. V&M's Carmen is so fun to watch because it has that missing emoting that I used to love from U&Z, K&P, K&O, A&P, D&V etc.
    ~I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I react to it.~ (Charles R. Swindoll)

  17. #137
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    I love COP dance, and find that Carmen is an exemplar of the form.

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proustable View Post
    I love COP dance, and find that Carmen is an exemplar of the form.
    For me, I have admired the technical demands of CoP dance, but I have longed, and longed, and longed for the artistry of the 6.0 days. Carmen is a marriage of the two, really. I said this after the debut at SC, but this program is a masterpiece and a winner no matter what scoring system you're using to evaluate it by. IJS, 6.0... it doesn't matter. It's incredible either way.

  19. #139
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    I only don't like one part of the dance, the part she tripped on at SC & Tessa came close to the same mistake here too, when she flips her legs over cause the back part of her blade clips the ice & trips her up a bit, not sure why they kept it but hopefully the change that small part for the GPF.

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golightly View Post
    I do not know what language this is, it's similar to Italian. They liked it very much too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=lJ36YcJ-VGM

    Edited to add: Sorry, that's not the video I meant. I cannot find it right now. This one I think is... Russian? When I find the one that sounded similar to Italian I will post it too. I remember it was the whole dance event.



    Was this the link here, it's the whole Final Flight in the FD...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSuT...I&feature=plcp

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