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  1. #121

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    I always thought there was some justification for giving Fumie a bronze (or even silver) in the Turino games. Slutskaya skated stiff and scared until she fell on the 3loop, and by then half her program was over (even her first 2 jump elements had wonky landings). I'll admit, she wasn't my fav and I really didn't think she ever pulled off the 'sexy latina', even when she was skating well. Cohen off course botched her 1st two jumping passes as well.

    Fumie skated essentially clean and sold her programs, landed similar content to Shizuka. Yet her countryman and rival, who had already usurped her as the #1 Japanese lady, now would go home with a gold medal while she was medaless. I wonder if Fumie had taken home a medal, would she have been satisfied with her career and retired? We probably wouldn't have this thread six years later.

    Maybe I'm just trying to tie the major Turino thread drift back to Fumie.

  2. #122
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    Thanks Funnybut. I would have given her the silver.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyliefan View Post
    Yeah, mental illness is just HILARIOUS. And such a fun accusation to throw at people just for continuing to do what they love doing.
    Lighten up, it was a joke.


    Quote Originally Posted by FunnyBut View Post
    I always thought there was some justification for giving Fumie a bronze (or even silver) in the Turino games. Slutskaya skated stiff and scared until she fell on the 3loop, and by then half her program was over (even her first 2 jump elements had wonky landings). I'll admit, she wasn't my fav and I really didn't think she ever pulled off the 'sexy latina', even when she was skating well. Cohen off course botched her 1st two jumping passes as well.

    Fumie skated essentially clean and sold her programs, landed similar content to Shizuka. Yet her countryman and rival, who had already usurped her as the #1 Japanese lady, now would go home with a gold medal while she was medaless. I wonder if Fumie had taken home a medal, would she have been satisfied with her career and retired? We probably wouldn't have this thread six years later.

    Maybe I'm just trying to tie the major Turino thread drift back to Fumie.
    Suguri's skate wasn't anything special even though she appeared clean. That Rach program was and she cheated a triple toe, IIRC. I do think her Japanese Nationals LP that year would have knocked Slutskaya off the podium for sure.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunnyBut View Post
    I always thought there was some justification for giving Fumie a bronze (or even silver) in the Turino games.
    Not for me. I could see some justification in giving Fumie 3rd, or even maybe 2nd (although IMO not 2nd) in the LP. However she was rightfully well back of Slutskaya and Cohen in the short program, hers was good, but theirs was great and much better. Slutskaya and Cohen had long been considered the two best short program skaters in the World by that point. I thought Shizuka Arakawa's SP was overscored, but Fumie was never beating her in the end anyway. Fumie's LP while also plausible and strong (although a little less strong than her SP) was not strong enough either, even in comparision to Cohen`s wonderful skate aside from 2 major errors and Slutskaya`s sluggish skate, to make up the gap.

    I do think though had she won the bronze at the 2006 Olympics and the gold at the 2006 Worlds she would have retired very happily. So while I dont think she deserved either, I almost wish she had been given then for that reason alone. I think she would have been a fine pro career, but now even that window is closed on her forever probably.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    And the only thing I can't get over at those Games was Kwan's injury and withdrawal.
    Of all the Olympics she could have missed this was the best one to miss. Even with how the conmpetition panned out I doubt she would have even medaled. She was past her prime, not a COP skater, had not done more than 5 triples in a LP in forever, and her SP with the same music as Slutskaya paled in comparision the times I saw it. Be glad she got to skate in the 2 Olympics she actually had a real shot of winning at. The huge shame is definitely not Kwan, but Mao Asada missing the 2006 Olympics. She so could have and probably would have won the gold there. Such a shame as seeing she might never get the Oly Gold medal now. The biggest example ever of the travesty of the stupid new age rules. I even thought at the time Mao's absence tainted Shizuka's win a bit since Shizuka was 0-3 vs Mao in the 05/06 season, but as time has gone on thankfully that isnt the case.

  6. #126

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    Quote Originally Posted by dawnie View Post
    Lighten up, it was a joke.
    Riiiight...
    Haunting the Princess of Pink since 20/07/11...

  7. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Of all the Olympics she could have missed this was the best one to miss. Even with how the conmpetition panned out I doubt she would have even medaled. She was past her prime, not a COP skater, had not done more than 5 triples in a LP in forever, and her SP with the same music as Slutskaya paled in comparision the times I saw it. Be glad she got to skate in the 2 Olympics she actually had a real shot of winning at. The huge shame is definitely not Kwan, but Mao Asada missing the 2006 Olympics. She so could have and probably would have won the gold there. Such a shame as seeing she might never get the Oly Gold medal now. The biggest example ever of the travesty of the stupid new age rules. I even thought at the time Mao's absence tainted Shizuka's win a bit since Shizuka was 0-3 vs Mao in the 05/06 season, but as time has gone on thankfully that isnt the case.
    We'll never know how Kwan would have scored, but let't not forget that Kwan's weakest and not-ready-for-COP programs in 2005 scored well enough for medal contention even with the worst LP performance of her career at Worlds (maybe 1994 was worse). She also landed six triples in both 2004 and 2005 seasons. As for the SP, if you mean the one time you saw it, then yeah, it wasn't her best work. You have a valid point, but one can argue that she might've done well enough to medal as well.

    The reason why I was sad about her withdrawal wasn't that Kwan had to withdraw but that she was in a physical condition that prevented her from giving her best shot.
    Last edited by VIETgrlTerifa; 12-18-2012 at 07:57 PM.

  8. #128

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Not for me. I could see some justification in giving Fumie 3rd, or even maybe 2nd (although IMO not 2nd) in the LP. However she was rightfully well back of Slutskaya and Cohen in the short program, hers was good, but theirs was great and much better.

    .
    I actually agree with you on this part, I believe Cohen/Slute are significantly better skaters than Fumie, and they both skated the SP lights out, and deserved that lead over Fumie. I do think Fumie was underscored in the LP, for some reason the 2nd ranked Japanese skater, whether it's Fumie, Akiko or Yukari doesn't get the respect of the judges, JMHO. I would have definitely put her LP over Slutes (and given her better PCS than Slute), probably not Cohen.

  9. #129

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    I would have felt more passionate about Suguri not medaling had she skated her incredible Carmen LP from the year prior as opposed her boring Rachmaninoff one. I will say that I did love Fumie's dress in Torino though and I think her SP was one of the better ones of the competition.

    BTW, who was Japan's no. 1 lady going into 2006? Suguri got astronomical scores at Nationals. I remember some grumbling about score inflation for a selected few to secure them a spot at the Olympics. I had forgotten that Nakano beat Ando at Nationals and had a better season, but because of Japan's qualification procedures, Ando got to go. Then they changed the procedure for 2010 and Suzuki benefitted due to her stellar 2009-2010 season going into Nationals to Nakano's detriment.

    Nakano just couldn't catch a break, could she?
    Last edited by VIETgrlTerifa; 12-18-2012 at 09:00 PM.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    I would have felt more passionate about Suguri not medaling had she skated her incredible Carmen LP from the year prior as opposed her boring Rachmaninoff one. I will say that I did love Fumie's dress in Torino though and I think her SP was one of the better ones of the competition.

    BTW, who was Japan's no. 1 lady going into 2006? Suguri got astronomical scores at Nationals. I remember some grumbling about score inflation for a selected few to secure them a spot at the Olympics. I had forgotten that Nakano beat Ando at Nationals and had a better season, but because of Japan's qualification procedures, Ando got to go. Then they changed the procedure for 2010 and Suzuki benefitted due to her stellar 2009-2010 season going into Nationals to Nakano's detriment.

    Nakano just couldn't catch a break, could she?
    Going into Torino, I don't know if there was a general consensus as to who was the #1 Japanese lady- Suguri or Arakawa. Arakawa was World Champion but was sort of an after-thought during the Olympic season when she failed to make the GPF even though she was among the highest scorers in the GP. She then came in 3rd at JPN Nationals which Suguri won over her and Asada- the actual #1 Japanese lady that season. But when they all arrived in Torino, I really do believe Arakawa put herself in Olympic gold medal position during the official practices. She "won" all her practice sessions and pulled out shit like 3-3-3's like it was nothing.

    As for Ando, IIRC, the JPN federation wanted her in Torino because of sponsors and what not. She was their IT girl before Asada came in the picture and Nakano never really fit in their plans. The team was always going to be Suguri, Arakawa, and Ando unless one of them got injured.

    It's very interesting though that Nakano beat Ando at both 2006 and 2010 Nationals but Ando got the ticket to the Olympics because of different rules both times- A point system used for past competitions in 2006 and highest finisher in the GPF in 2010. Nakano was so robbed of at least one Olympic trip and one World medal (2008).

    Re: Suzuki vs Nakano in 2010- I'm pretty sure Suzuki got the spot over Nakano because she placed higher at Nationals (by something like less than a point!). The only guaranteed spot was for Ando who was the highest Japanese finisher in the GPF. I could be wrong but I don't think they weren't using a point system or considering prior competitions when it came to the other spots in 2010. But we all know Asada was getting one no matter what and that it came down to Suzuki and Nakano.
    Last edited by dawnie; 12-19-2012 at 12:08 AM.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    BTW, who was Japan's no. 1 lady going into 2006? Suguri got astronomical scores at Nationals. I remember some grumbling about score inflation for a selected few to secure them a spot at the Olympics.
    I think Shizuka was definitely Japanese #1 going into Turin. Yes Fumie won Nationals, but in the SP when she and Shizuka were both clean Shizuka was 1st. Shizuka did a bad LP, was only 4th in the LP below Yoshie Onda, which is why Fumie won Nationals. I think if Asada was age eligible for the Games she would have gotten top backing over Shizuka though. They lowballed her at Nationals and gave very high marks to Shizuka and Fumie, since they knew she wasnt going to the Games, and they didnt want an age ineligible to look better than the ladies they were sending to the Games.

    Nakano had medaled at the GP final that season so I see no excuse for Ando to have been sent over her after finishing below Nakano at Nationals as well. Ando was never going to do well at the Games that year, she wasnt in form at all at the time and it was a stupid move, as Ando's poor Olympic finish went on to prove. Onda finished above both at Nationals though, so if it were strictly based on Nationals she would have went.

    I totally agree with you on Fumie's program. I pretty much prefered every LP she had ever done to her Rachmaninoff LP which was perhaps her worst work ever, and didnt suit any of her strengths, in fact merely exposed the strengths she did not have. She and her choreography also didnt make the music come to her life at all. That and her only doing 5 triples, and Slutskaya and Cohen's spectacular SPs, and I really have no problems with her not medalling. As for PCS, lets be real here, Fumie was only ever going to get higher PCS than Slutskaya if her program was much better, and her Rachmanioff program not skated spectacularly was not that, even with Irina's blah LP that year skated poorly that night. To draw a parallel, it would be just like facing Kwan in 2002 and 2003 in the U.S, the only way she was going to get higher presentation marks is if her program blew Kwan's out of the water, it was similar to what she would have had to do to get PCS comparable or better to Slutskaya or Cohen in 2006, not saying it is right, just realistically given how the sport works, and how Fumie has never really been a big big name, even when winning her world medals.

    Fumie should have skated cleanly at the 2005 Worlds. With her 4CCs performances that year at Worlds she would have very easily won the bronze, maybe even the silver. Even with just one more successful jump, which still wouldnt have been a perfect competition, she would have been 3rd. She needed to medal at the 2005 Worlds to wrestle support of Japanese #1 back even with Shizuka bombing there, since Shizuka is a past World Champion who can do 3/3s, and at odd times has a revered style and program, and Fumie is not.
    Last edited by judgejudy27; 12-19-2012 at 03:03 AM.

  12. #132

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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post

    Nakano just couldn't catch a break, could she?
    She really couldn't. And she was such a lovely skater. (Yeah, I know, leg wrap -- but she was still a lovely skater!)
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  13. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyliefan View Post
    She really couldn't. And she was such a lovely skater. (Yeah, I know, leg wrap -- but she was still a lovely skater!)
    She was decent, but she just wasn't that great. Suzuki was a better skater and rightfully beat her for the 2010 spot.

  14. #134

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    I prefer Suzuki as well. I would have preferred if Ando was left off. Her material was weak in 2010 and her skating was just blah. However, there was no way they were going to leave out a former World Champion and a skater who just medaled at the prior year's Worlds (and placed second in the LP portion). I wish Nakano could have gotten a medal at 2008 Worlds, then I'd be more ok with her not going to the Olympics in 2010. I also wish Nakano would have went to the 2006 Olympics. I enjoyed Ando in the beginning of the 2005-2006 season, but something happened by the time the Olympics rolled around and she just lost her spark.

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    Surprisingly in the long program, Suguri had a higher technical score than Slutskya. The lack of level 4 spins and spiral hurt her.

    Although Arakawa did not lead after the short, her score was a peronsal best.

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    ^ Not to mention having one less cleanly landed triple than the rest of the top 4. Although, had Slutskaya done a second Triple Lutz as her combo in the second half as opposed to the Triple Toe/Double Toe, she would have gotten 2.2 more points in base value and could have won the silver over Cohen despite one less triple.
    Last edited by VIETgrlTerifa; 12-19-2012 at 05:24 AM.

  17. #137

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    Oh, I love Akiko -- she's my current favorite of the Japanese ladies. But I loved Yukari too.
    Charter member of the "We Always Believed in Ashley" Club and the "We Believe in Ricky" Club
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  18. #138

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    Quote Originally Posted by dawnie View Post
    As for Ando, IIRC, the JPN federation wanted her in Torino because of sponsors and what not. She was their IT girl before Asada came in the picture and Nakano never really fit in their plans. The team was always going to be Suguri, Arakawa, and Ando unless one of them got injured.
    Actually, Ando was injured; she had a stress fracture in her foot, which didn't heal by the Olympic games. (She has publicly admitted that.) I don't know whether she hid it from JSF or they knew it but still let her skate.

    Quote Originally Posted by dawnie View Post
    Re: Suzuki vs Nakano in 2010- I'm pretty sure Suzuki got the spot over Nakano because she placed higher at Nationals (by something like less than a point!). The only guaranteed spot was for Ando who was the highest Japanese finisher in the GPF. I could be wrong but I don't think they weren't using a point system or considering prior competitions when it came to the other spots in 2010. But we all know Asada was getting one no matter what and that it came down to Suzuki and Nakano.
    Because JSF was heavily criticized for sacrificing Nakano to send Ando to Turin, they tried really hard to send Nakano to Vancouver. But Nakano had already passed her prime while Suzuki was on the rise and virtually unstoppable. Ando finished 2nd and Suzuki 3rd at 2009 GPF, and while Ando was guaranteed a spot in the Olympic team, Suzuki was given no advantage. Hiroshi Nagakubo, Suzuki's coach thought she was going to lose when he saw the judge panel at 2009 Nationals. (He said in an interview with JSF's Noriko Shirota.) They underscored Suzuki and overscored Nakano, but failed to let Nakano win.

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    I prefer Suzuki as well. I would have preferred if Ando was left off. Her material was weak in 2010 and her skating was just blah. However, there was no way they were going to leave out a former World Champion and a skater who just medaled at the prior year's Worlds (and placed second in the LP portion). I wish Nakano could have gotten a medal at 2008 Worlds, then I'd be more ok with her not going to the Olympics in 2010. I also wish Nakano would have went to the 2006 Olympics. I enjoyed Ando in the beginning of the 2005-2006 season, but something happened by the time the Olympics rolled around and she just lost her spark.
    I enjoyed her in the beginning of the season as well and her SP that season was probably my favorite of all her programs. On a shallow note, I couldn't stand her SP costume and hair in Torino. I remember thinking as she took the ice: who is this random Asian girl and why is she on the ice when Ando is supposed to be there? She looked like a completely different person to me. How a hideous black bondage looking dress with black tights go with Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence, I will never understand.

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    She was only 18 in Torino, but she looked so much older. Not sure if she chose to dress like that or if that was packaging by Carol Heiss-Jenkins or what, but it did her no favors.

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