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  1. #441

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Finally this thread is in its rightful place!



    You really need the vague being elaborated? I mean it's Sarah Hughes. Sarah. Hughes. The Margaret Thatcher of figure skating. She was slouching. Not a single movement was extended. She wasn't even trying (not only weren't the toes and fingers never pointed but she didn't even straighten her arms and legs). A flutz off a deep inside edge cheated over 1/4. A short break after footwork before the 3flip which was slightly cheated and two-footed. The layback was slightly off-centred. Her edges weren't particularly deep or stable and some of her crossovers were quite laboured.

    2axel was solid but given that most of the Ladies stayed upright on everything, her overall quality just wasn't there to place her inside the top 10, let alone 3rd! Not anywhere near.
    I call complete BS on this post!

    Here's the SP.

    I don't get the negativity about her basic skating - she had pretty good basics, and the slouching wasn't as prevalent in this SP as some of her earlier programmes - she certianly slouched a lot less than Slutskaya. Her arms and specifically her fingers in this programme seemed extended at all times. There were parts of the programme where her free leg was relaxed in the knee and could have been pointed, but there were more parts where it was locked out and pointed. The Flutz was probably the worst out there, and was short by a 1/4 turn, but that was back when no-one cared. The triple flip did have a break between the steps and the jump, but all of the ladies were exactly the same here (except Meier as I said before). The commentators might have said she "may have two footed" the flip, but I do not think she did - it doesn't appear to be the case looking at the slow motion, and it wasn't cheated.

  2. #442
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    Her spins in this performance were not as well executed as I remembered. The flying camel was under-revved. The final combination spin had more revs in transition than it had in actual positions and the front end might also be under-revved.

    Actually I think the slouching was more evident in this performance because she attempted so many arabesque positions but the knees were always bent and the back down.

    The mule kicks made my eyes water.

  3. #443
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    Sarah benefited from skating at "home" and her consistent season so far for sure. I feel Sasha benefited even more from skating at home though. Who skates clean and places 3rd at their FIRST major senior international competition, much less the Olympic Games? Sasha Cohen. I'm not complaining at all though she deserved it.

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    I agree with that. Sasha's performance was good enough for top 3, but being a total newbie with absoultely NO international cred yet, had the event been somewhere else she would have been lucky to make the final flight. I think had the Olympics been in Europe or Asia the short program standings (not what they should have been neccessarily but would have been) are:

    1. Slutskaya
    2. Kwan or Butyrskaya
    4. Suguri or Hughes
    6. Sebeysten or Cohen

    Personally I had Sarah 9th in the short behind in order Slutskaya, Kwan or Cohen, Butyrskaya, Suguri, Sebeysten, Gusmeroli, and Robinson. She still would have been held up anywhere though, due to her consistency the last 2 years and World bronze medal. Probably not over Butyrskaya (granted her short was very tenative and not that great either IMO), but over most of the others who should have beat her.

  5. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by falling_dance View Post
    And evar.

    Hell, I'm one of those oddballs who really likes this.
    Wow, I had never seen her Nationals performance. Her last great skate indeed.

    I loved Suguri so much, especially for her 2002, 2005 and 2007 LPs.

    And well, I'm aware that this is an awkward statement but watching her skates makes me think a flutz can be beautiful.

    Quote Originally Posted by tkaug View Post

    By the way, I posted this thread to discuss what Suguri is now, not her past?
    Well, what is she up to now?

  6. #446
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyCurry View Post
    And well, I'm aware that this is an awkward statement but watching her skates makes me think a flutz can be beautiful.
    What?? Although TBH, maybe.

    Just came across this thread. A page-turner, it is.

    I did kind of feel bad for Fumie not medaling in 2006, but her programs starting from that season on were so awful that I didn't care too much for it. Her Torino programs either made her lack of stretch painfully obvious, or her stretch become significantly worse. Either way, the programs were clearly not suited and not aesthetically pleasing. She landed just five triples in the LP too - I can argue it was close between Fumie and Irina, but it isn't much controversy that the results turned it the way they did.

    On the other hand, if Fumie came up with programs as good as her previous programs, then she probably deserved a medal. Sasha's programs were good but a bit too tight for my taste. Irina's programs were forgettable, and Shizuka's programs were alright, but with Turandot she truly was a one-trick show. Fumie's 2002 and 2005 programs were gems (along with Paint It Black). If she presented these programs and skated well (such as at the 2003-04 GPF or 2005 FC), IMO she deserved to win, though the judges probably wouldn't give her that liberty.

    I don't understand why some people think Fumie was robbed in 2002. She was robbed in the SP (I would have her 4th or 5th), but I don't think she was medal-worthy. Many act as if Sasha's FP was a disaster, when she in fact landed 6 reasonably clean triples, with the only failure being on the back end of her 3lutz-3toe. Fumie landed five triples, and a good argument can be made for why she should be ahead of Sasha because IMO Moonlight Sonata was a better program than Carmen, but it was no controversy.

  7. #447
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    EVERY ladies thread goes back to the 2002 Olympics SP at some point, but I like to discuss it too so I'm ok with it.

    My personal opinion:
    1. Slutskaya: 5.8, 5.8
    2. Kwan: 5.6, 5.9
    3. Cohen: 5.7, 5.7
    4. Suguri: 5.6, 5.6
    5. Sebestyen: 5.7, 5.4
    6. Butyrskaya: 5.5, 5.6
    7. Hughes: 5.4, 5.6
    8. Meier: 5.4, 5.5
    9. Gusmeroli: 5.3, 5.5
    10. Robinson: 5.2, 5.3
    11. Fontana: 5.0, 5.4

    A couple notes:
    - Kwan and Cohen can easily be swapped, I'd be ok with that.
    - I never understand why some people think Bute was robbed in the SP. Her lutz and flip were shaky, her spirals and laybacks were abnormally weak, and she didn't skate with the usual convincing artistry she has.
    - I was surprised that Meier got such high scores at SLC since at Skate Canada she got mostly high 4s for technical after a clean SP, but I'm ok with the outcome.
    - Sebestyen had probably the second best elements that night, but her presentation was particularly forgettable with that program.

  8. #448
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    Quote Originally Posted by shady82 View Post
    I don't understand why some people think Fumie was robbed in 2002. She was robbed in the SP (I would have her 4th or 5th), but I don't think she was medal-worthy. Many act as if Sasha's FP was a disaster, when she in fact landed 6 reasonably clean triples, with the only failure being on the back end of her 3lutz-3toe. Fumie landed five triples, and a good argument can be made for why she should be ahead of Sasha because IMO Moonlight Sonata was a better program than Carmen, but it was no controversy.
    There are 27 skaters listed for the SP in SLC. Suguri was already disadvantaged by skating 2nd in the SP, which in 6.0 could be deadly. Did they group them 5-5-6-6-6? If so, Hughes, who beat her 7-2 in ordinals was in the same group, and Cohen was in the next. If the first group had six, then Cohen, who beat her (and Hughes) 9-0 in ordinals would have been last to skate in the first group. (The other three in the first group were Zhang [1], Lebedeva [3], and Kopac [4]. Of them, only 19th place Kopac got an mark above 5, a 5.1 in Presentation, and the highest combined score of 10.)

    The ordinals for Kwan, Slutskaya, and Cohen were consistent: The only one who had ordinals out of the top three was Cohen, who lost three 3rds to Butyrskaya. Suguri was given two 4th- and two 5th-place ordinals -- Krick and Pizzocari put her ahead of Hughes, Butyrskaya, and Sebestyen, and Islam and Inman put her ahead of Butyrskaya and Sebestyen -- but the ordinals from Danilenko (13), Blangsted (11), and Absaliamova (12) sunk her enough to lose a spot in the last group of the Free Skate. The other two judges were Hrachovcova, who placed her 8th, behind the top six and Sarah Meier (5th), and Leskinen, who placed her 9th, behind the top six, Meier (7th) and Fontana (8th).
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  9. #449
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    I also dont understand the people who think Fumie deserved a medal in SLC. Her free skate was definitely not stronger than Kwan or Slutskaya. I could see her being placed above Cohen, and probably would have somewhere else, but it wasnt like she was much better. She landed less triples than all of Kwan, Cohen, and Slutskaya, who each had 6 to her 5, her spins are nowhere near Sasha or Irina, her spirals and field moves in that program nowhere near Sasha or Michelle, and it wasnt like she had a convincing or commanding presentation that day. Her Worlds performance was much better, and even there it was a distant 3rd.

    She was hosed in the short program though. I cant believe 3 judges had her out of the top 10. That is nuts. It is funny to see 5 of the 9 judges and thus a majority had her below Meier, but I guess because Meier ended up below Robinson who was already below Suguri that saved her going below Meier. The 2006 Worlds was the first time I ever noticed Meier, so she must have been super inconsistent over the years to have skated that well in SLC SP quite young and been largely unnoticeable for years to come.



    Back to thread topic and the current Fumie I am going to predict this coming season will be her last in competitive elite, but she will go into adult skating competitions in the future. Does anyone think she might try show show skating or choreography? Does she have any plans outside skating for the future. It is sad she missed her potentially best pro skating years to chase impossible dreams it seems.

  10. #450
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    I am so looking forward to the tenth anniversary bump of this thread.
    It's official. I am madly in love with Meryl Davis.

  11. #451
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    The 2006 Worlds was the first time I ever noticed Meier, so she must have been super inconsistent over the years to have skated that well in SLC SP quite young and been largely unnoticeable for years to come

    Back to thread topic and the current Fumie I am going to predict this coming season will be her last in competitive elite, but she will go into adult skating competitions in the future. Does anyone think she might try show show skating or choreography? Does she have any plans outside skating for the future. It is sad she missed her potentially best pro skating years to chase impossible dreams it seems.
    I believe Sarah Meier was battling injuries during that quad, and therefore had trouble placing well. She did skate very well at Worlds in 2004, but that was such a strong field she got buried out of the top 10. I think Sarah was given surprisingly high marks at SLC, especially considering that her marks given during the GP circuit indicated she would finish distantly behind Suguri. IMO she was robbed in Torino, where she improved but was only placed 10th in the SP.

    I also don't think Fumie will get past this season (really? that's going to get as nut as things can possibly be). How many other ladies' skaters competed at this level after the age of 30? The only one I can think of is Patricia Mansfield, and I believe Marta Andrade (neither well-known to casual followers). But considering how mad she sounds already, who knows..

  12. #452
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    I remember Patricia Mansfield from the 95 Nationals where she was 5th. While she wasnt a polished or technically sound skater she was lots of fun to watch. Probably my favorite performance that year, even if her skills were in no way competitive with the top girls. I never knew she even continued though as I dont recall seeing her again.

  13. #453
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    Quote Originally Posted by shady82 View Post
    EVERY ladies thread goes back to the 2002 Olympics SP at some point, but I like to discuss it too so I'm ok with it.

    My personal opinion:
    1. Slutskaya: 5.8, 5.8
    2. Kwan: 5.6, 5.9
    3. Cohen: 5.7, 5.7
    4. Suguri: 5.6, 5.6
    5. Sebestyen: 5.7, 5.4
    6. Butyrskaya: 5.5, 5.6
    7. Hughes: 5.4, 5.6
    ...
    I think my placements would be similar. I thought then and still think Slutskaya deserved 1st in the SP. Kwan's overall ice quality were so superior to all the rest that I can see keeping her in second and I thought Cohen was a clear third (though I was surprised the judges put such a young and new skater there). I can see the judges' dilemma with the next 4 - each had some strengths and some weaknesses.

    Hughes had a pretty big flutz but I think she may have been rewarded for doing her lutz combo with 2 loop rather than 2 toe, her speed and the quality of her layback spin position. Without a more obvious error, I can see placing her 4th and Suguri 5th.

    Sebastien may have had the best jumps after Slutskaya, but overall her skating looks mid-tier. I'd have her 6th.

    Of all the skaters mentioned, IMO Butryskaya is the one who was majorly propped up by the judges. Butryskaya had weird edge on the landing of the 3F, then barely eeked out the 3 lutz combination. IMO of these seven skaters, she should have been last.

    (I stopped at 7 rather than hunt down and rewatch the rest of the Sp skates again.)
    Last edited by Susan M; 06-29-2013 at 12:33 AM.

  14. #454
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    [QUOTE=shady82;3947103]How many other ladies' skaters competed at this level after the age of 30?

    She has never competed internationally after the age of 30 and her current level is she can barely land one triple or two per programme. Arakava can still land many triples although she is not competing anymore. This is a video of her landing 3Lz+3Lo and 3T+3T+2Lo+2Lo at the age of 28 or 29. Have you ever seen Suguri do a 3-jump combination in a international game?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXasiY2TwBQ

  15. #455
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    Quote Originally Posted by Susan M View Post
    Of all the skaters mentioned, IMO Butryskaya is the one who was majorly propped up by the judges. Butryskaya had weird edge on the landing of the 3F, then barely eeked out the 3 lutz combination. IMO of these seven skaters, she should have been last.

    Butyrskaya had a high free leg on the landing of the lutz but overall she had great speed and flow out of that jump combination, it wasn't eeked out at all. Her flip was technically clean as well and she was one of the few skaters who had clean takeoff edges on lutz and flip (Gusmeroli was another skater but she had almost no steps before the triple flip). Her double axel and flying camel were of very high quality. I can see why people think that she deserved to be behind Kwan (even though she cheated the flip and I found her steps very easy) but TBH I don't see how she could end behind Hughes who did her usual small cheated toe jumps and had IMO a very mediocre program.

    For me also, Slutskaya was the best skater in that SP. The quality and difficulty of her required elements (and that is what the SP is mostly about) were the best of the night and that wasn't even close.

    Edited to add:

    My placements of the SP (they might be controversial)

    1. Slutskaya 5.8/5.7
    2. Cohen 5.6/5.7
    3. Suguri 5.5/5.7
    4. Kwan 5.4/5.8
    5. Butyrskaya 5.5/5.6
    6. Sebestyen 5.6/5.4
    7. Gusmeroli 5.2/5.5
    8. Hughes 5.1/5.6
    Last edited by David21; 06-29-2013 at 02:44 AM.

  16. #456
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    5.1 and 5.6 are the highest marks Hughes should have gotten from any judge IMO. It is funny there was so much fuss about one judge who put her 10th when she arguably deserved to be closer to 10th than the 4th place she was given.

  17. #457
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    Quote Originally Posted by shady82 View Post
    How many other ladies' skaters competed at this level after the age of 30?
    Slutskaya landed 3F and 3Lo at the age of 33 at Medal Winner's Open last year.

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    She is going to do a Canada's local game Summer Skate 2013 in August.


    http://www.skatecanada-centralontari...%2010jul13.pdf


    Senior Women

    Anderson Jessie **** Foreign Skater ****
    Black Karen Halifax SC
    Chartrand Alaine Nepean SC, Inc.
    Cloutier Véronique Chapleau FSC
    Costello Kassie Capital City SC
    Daleman Gabrielle Hilltop SC
    Erlichman Alexis Granite Club
    Greben Rachel Toronto CS & CC
    Kukla Barbara Nicole Richmond Training Centre
    Long Michelle Richmond Hill FSC
    Masin Amanda Mariposa WC
    McCorriston Anna Minto SC
    McNeil Kelsey Petitcodiac Dist FSC
    Najarro Alexandra YRSA WC
    Nishimura Eri Toronto CS & CC
    Steward Marika North Bay FSC
    Suguri Fumie JAPAN
    White Amanda Georgina SC
    Woods Stacey Morden FSC

  19. #459
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    We see her name on the starting order list and she withdrew it??
    What is she doing?!


    http://www.skatecanada-centralontari...2013/index.htm

  20. #460

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    It was announced as "did not register" in the arena. I was disappointed!

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