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  1. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by falling_dance View Post
    Hell, I'm one of those oddballs who really likes this.
    This really was her last strong skate.

  2. #422

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    I'll always say Fumie was robbed of a higher placement after the SP at the Olympics. I would have placed her (and some other skaters) above Sarah Hughes.

  3. #423
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasha'sSpins View Post
    I'll always say Fumie was robbed of a higher placement after the SP at the Olympics. I would have placed her (and some other skaters) above Sarah Hughes.
    In 2002? Sure. I really would have had her as high as third behind Kwan and Cohen, but ahead of Slutskaya, Sebestyen and Butyrskaya.

  4. #424

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    2002 was a tough SP to mark since an overwhelming majority of the ladies skated clean.

    I always remember thinking Meier was robbed since she was one of the few ladies that had steps directly into her solo jump without a pause.

  5. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by falling_dance View Post
    And evar.

    Hell, I'm one of those oddballs who really likes this.
    Well, I'm one of those oddballs, too, because I really love that program. Thanks for sharing, falling_dance. I wish there was an applause emoticon.
    Angie
    “I have not failed. I’ve just found 10,000 ways that won’t work.” ~ Thomas A. Edison

  6. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    In 2002? Sure. I really would have had her as high as third behind Kwan and Cohen, but ahead of Slutskaya, Sebestyen and Butyrskaya.
    Kwan had a flutz, cheated her triple flip quite considerably and was clearly off-beat during her step sequence. /nitpick mode

    But yeah Suguri should have definitely placed higher than she did.

    Given the majority of ladies skated "clean" (one of the best Ladies SPs ever!) and this was before CoP, it was extremely hard to judge. The results we got were quite crazy. I mean how did Hughes manage to place so high with her cheated, shaky jumps, weak basics and generally not being at the level of many other skaters, I will never know. Home ice advantage maybe?

  7. #427
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    Three criticisms of Kwan, and you're "nitpicking".

    Three, possibly four criticisms of Hughes (including the very vague "generally not being at the level of many other skaters"), and it's "crazy" and you can't understand it.

    Not very well argued, Ziggy.
    Be with me always—take any form—drive me mad! only do not leave me in this abyss, where I cannot find you! Oh, God! it is unutterable! I cannot live without my life! I cannot live without my soul!"

  8. #428
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    It's interesting that although Irina tended to dominate in the SP portion of her competitions, she never won the SP at any of her three Olympics. Ok the first one didn't really count as Irina wasn't at her peak yet.

    Even though my favorite skater never won the Olympics, I do like that she did win the Olympics twice....in the short program.

  9. #429
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasha'sSpins View Post
    I'll always say Fumie was robbed of a higher placement after the SP at the Olympics. I would have placed her (and some other skaters) above Sarah Hughes.
    Also in 2006. She should have been above Shizuka's snoozefest of a short program in 3rd place, but instead wound up a whopping 5 points back of Shizuka, who was ridiculously tied with the much superior performances of both Cohen and Slutskaya. Suguri's short was actually my favorite of the Games, although objectively I cant say it should be placed above Irina or Sasha. Shizuka must have really blown the judges away in practice to get that score in the short.

  10. #430
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Also in 2006. She should have been above Shizuka's snoozefest of a short program in 3rd place, but instead wound up a whopping 5 points back of Shizuka, who was ridiculously tied with the much superior performances of both Cohen and Slutskaya. Suguri's short was actually my favorite of the Games, although objectively I cant say it should be placed above Irina or Sasha. Shizuka must have really blown the judges away in practice to get that score in the short.
    I disagree.
    Suguri's jumps were fine but there was a clear difference between Suguri and the medalists in terms of the levels and qualities of spins, steps, and spirals both in short and free. Arakawa really worked on it after losing to Suguri at the nationals while Suguri didn't although there were many things she could have improved.

    By the way, I posted this thread to discuss what Suguri is now, not her past?

  11. #431

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    Quote Originally Posted by ioana View Post
    Did anyone post a link to this LP yet? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEUd-LSfR-U I loved Zhulin's choreography and the fact that she set a mood and carried it through from beginning to end.
    That was excellent.
    I can call the moon a pear, but it doesn't make it so. -- kwanfan1818

  12. #432

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    Quote Originally Posted by orientalplane View Post
    Three criticisms of Kwan, and you're "nitpicking".

    Three, possibly four criticisms of Hughes (including the very vague "generally not being at the level of many other skaters"), and it's "crazy" and you can't understand it.

    Not very well argued, Ziggy.
    OP

  13. #433
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Kwan had a flutz, cheated her triple flip quite considerably and was clearly off-beat during her step sequence. /nitpick mode

    But yeah Suguri should have definitely placed higher than she did.

    Given the majority of ladies skated "clean" (one of the best Ladies SPs ever!) and this was before CoP, it was extremely hard to judge. The results we got were quite crazy. I mean how did Hughes manage to place so high with her cheated, shaky jumps, weak basics and generally not being at the level of many other skaters, I will never know. Home ice advantage maybe?
    Missed ya, Zigs. But yes, Kwan was so clearly better than the rest that I would still have her in first based on the second mark despite the flawed 3flip. If I recall correctly she was one of the few top skaters to put the 3flip so late in the program.

    Hughes' scoring at Worlds and Olympics all those years have always been unfortunate. I hate that she was almost 'encouraged' to stand up on cheated 3/3s whereas someone like Nagasu was forced to clean up her solo jumps even though hers were probably better than Hughes'.

  14. #434

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Missed ya, Zigs. But yes, Kwan was so clearly better than the rest that I would still have her in first based on the second mark despite the flawed 3flip. If I recall correctly she was one of the few top skaters to put the 3flip so late in the program.

    Hughes' scoring at Worlds and Olympics all those years have always been unfortunate. I hate that she was almost 'encouraged' to stand up on cheated 3/3s whereas someone like Nagasu was forced to clean up her solo jumps even though hers were probably better than Hughes'.
    Didn't Hughes and Nagasu compete under different systems? I thought Nagasu (and Zhang) were touted as The.Next.Big.Thing. while they competed under 6.0 and then COP came along and their jumps were no longer what people thought they were.

  15. #435
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    Didn't Hughes and Nagasu compete under different systems? I thought Nagasu (and Zhang) were touted as The.Next.Big.Thing. while they competed under 6.0 and then COP came along and their jumps were no longer what people thought they were.
    That's what I meant. Nagasu was born 6 years too late, or Hughes 6 years too early. Nagasu was a much better skater but somehow timing made Hughes an Olympic Champ but Nagasu could only make Worlds once. They had the same deadly weakness.

    Anyway I don't think Zhang and Nagasu came about until 2006/7 in juniors and by then COP had already been in place for a couple of years already.

  16. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    In 2002? Sure. I really would have had her as high as third behind Kwan and Cohen, but ahead of Slutskaya, Sebestyen and Butyrskaya.
    Slutskaya 4th or lower in the short in SLC. Your posts are always great for a laugh.

  17. #437
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    Hughes had one big advantage over Mirai and that she was one tough cookie as a competitor. I never saw fear in her eyes as a skater even as a 13 year old at Sr Worlds.

  18. #438
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    Finally this thread is in its rightful place!

    Quote Originally Posted by orientalplane View Post
    Three, possibly four criticisms of Hughes (including the very vague "generally not being at the level of many other skaters"), and it's "crazy" and you can't understand it.
    You really need the vague being elaborated? I mean it's Sarah Hughes. Sarah. Hughes. The Margaret Thatcher of figure skating. She was slouching. Not a single movement was extended. She wasn't even trying (not only weren't the toes and fingers never pointed but she didn't even straighten her arms and legs). A flutz off a deep inside edge cheated over 1/4. A short break after footwork before the 3flip which was slightly cheated and two-footed. The layback was slightly off-centred. Her edges weren't particularly deep or stable and some of her crossovers were quite laboured.

    2axel was solid but given that most of the Ladies stayed upright on everything, her overall quality just wasn't there to place her inside the top 10, let alone 3rd! Not anywhere near.

  19. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    You really need the vague being elaborated? I mean it's Sarah Hughes. Sarah. Hughes.
    Don't patronise me Ziggy; I've got enough problems already.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    2axel was solid but given that most of the Ladies stayed upright on everything, her overall quality just wasn't there to place her inside the top 10, let alone 3rd! Not anywhere near.
    She was fourth, not third.
    Be with me always—take any form—drive me mad! only do not leave me in this abyss, where I cannot find you! Oh, God! it is unutterable! I cannot live without my life! I cannot live without my soul!"

  20. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by orientalplane View Post
    Don't patronise me Ziggy; I've got enough problems already.
    It was meant to be repetition with hysteric emphasis for comedic effect but things like that are hard to put across in writing alone. ;P

    Quote Originally Posted by orientalplane View Post
    She was fourth, not third.
    Of course, my bad.

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