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  1. #121

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    Quote Originally Posted by hoptoad View Post
    I'm on the fence about medical byes in general, but I would definitely let any skater who qualified for the JGP final keep their bye even if they couldn't compete due to injury.
    Kiri Baga qualified for the JGP Final in 2010 and withdrew due to injury but kept her bye to 2011 Nationals (she ended up withdrawing later anyway).
    Last edited by Sylvia; 11-14-2012 at 01:24 AM. Reason: to add quoted part
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  2. #122

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    That's good to know. Do you know if it's official policy?

  3. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    I figured she would want to go to one last Nationals and say goodbye there. I am surprised she isnt. As you said one wouldnt think her injury is too bad to not skate at Nationals. Next year she would need to qualify for Nationals, and likely would be hard pressed to do that. Maybe she felt saying goodbye at an international event was a good way to go out, and also figured this past Nationals was a great way to go out there, which makes sense.
    I was really surprised to find her skating. I had the feeling she was saying goodbye last year at Nationals.
    DH - and that's just my opinion

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by stjeaskategym View Post
    Still, I don't see what would be so costly about potentially having one more men's warmup group at Natls this yr... The total number of competitors wouldn't increase from the usual, since the pairs field will be smaller than it usually is.

    Even if we can't give byes to Natls to every Sr Intl competitor, I still think we should at least have byes for every skater with 2 GPs and medical byes available for intl skaters who can prove an injury. I know anyone can claim injury, but I would want to give skaters the benefit of the doubt here...This is a sport, real injuries do happen.
    I could be wrong, but discussions in the other threads mention fewer and fewer skating clubs are bidding for US nationals because of the expense as it is. That is in addition to putting jr nationals in nationals this year.
    Since we are not the skating clubs hosting the event, of course it's easy for me to say "it's not that much more expense".
    Don't competitors with 2gps this year all have byes for one reason or another anyway? And for very few exceptions, it has been so. The year Czisny had to qualify, she did it in the state she trained in, going only from Detroit to Ann Arbor. So she went to Canada, came home and then to France. Which I think is what would still have happened without sectionals, where she just did enough to win. It would be nice to have a bye; I didn't remember fans crying foul over her not having one.

    I seem to remember Murakami had to do regionals this year. So skaters in other countries do qualifying too even with 2 gps.

    As for medical byes, as you can see even many here disagree on what policy improves skaters' health. I think people need to agree on that first before any change happens; on top of that, I believe a policy like that should apply to all skaters across all events instead of a sub-group on one qualifying instance.

    Anyway, I don't believe rules based on the majority, but I believe the same policy should apply to everyone and across all events. It's simpler, fairer, and creates fewer political complications.
    Last edited by jlai; 11-14-2012 at 04:48 AM.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    Maybe you should ask Rachael's doctor. I would guess s/he knows a lot more about Rachael's capabilities and appropriate treatment than you do.
    I meant my statement as a medical fact, not a comment on Racheal's specific condition. I have been a long term back pain sufferer so I know alot about bulging discs. The term "bulging discs" sounds real serious but in actuality many people - even those without back pain - have bulging discs but they do not suffer pain for it. Like i think they did a study where like a quarter of people had bulging discs & did not even know. Her condition could be like that, we just don't know or perhaps it is like that but worsened. She had this problem as far back as 2010 when she skated in Vancouver so it would not be out of the realm of possibility that while she has bulging discs she may be like the majority of people with the condition and not have that much pain. Indeed, she said in an interview she had the problem since 2006. I don't see how she could have skated for 6 years with debilitating back pain nor am I sure whether the painkillers needed to function with such pain are something she would be allowed to take.

    It is also true that something like 90% of back problems are not something that are solved by any kind of surgical treatment, & even bulging discs, the standard treatment 90% of the time is PT and rest. Surgical treatment of bulging discs would only be done ahead of something like physical theory and rest (and presumably not doing triple jumps) if it were really serious like hitting a nerve or impacting other bodily functions. If it were that serious one can usually not move wthout pain and painkillers let alone skate.

    We have no idea what Rachael's specific condition is but she has had bulging discs for over 6 years and still skated so it makes me guess that that it is not the rare type of bulging discs that is impacting bodily functions requiring surgery. So it would seem that she has the type of bulging disc that 90% of back sufferers have and the treatment for that is PT, rest, steroid injections, etc. it might be the case that simply not skating will help her. It could also be too that the headlines are wrong - maybe it is not bulging discs but something else with the back structurally where she could delay treatment for 6 years.

    But If the headlines are right and it is bulging discs - and she still was able to train for 6 years with the condition (& do quite well) and doctors let her, not believing that twisting her body would worsen her condition - as a matter of logic, it does not seem like her back condition is that serious (at least in the beginning, her continuing to train could have made it more serious) if she was able to delay treatment for over 6 years. I remember reading that headline 2 years ago and finding it astonishing it was really bulging discs because i thought what doctor would allow you to do triple jumps if you had bulging discs. Doctors do not let you pick up anything, my doctor complains that my pocket book is too heavy to carry on my arm because you are not suppose to put pressure on the back. i doubt any doctor would recommend anyone with a serious bulging disc issue do triple jumps and layout spins.

    So we can only hope that Rachael has the former condition and that her bulging discs could be solved by PT and they can be put back in place and that by not competing the problem will be solved. I also hope that Rachel's continuing to skate did not turn a mild problem into something serious. Her health is more important than skating and I really hope her condition is not that serious. A more serious back condition could call into question Rachael's ability to skate at all, or skate for quite a long time, which would be a real shame.
    Last edited by Blondie12; 11-14-2012 at 08:24 AM.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    Maybe you should ask Rachael's doctor. I would guess s/he knows a lot more about Rachael's capabilities and appropriate treatment than you do.
    I too made my statement in response to another saying that Rachael wanted to delay treatment till after her competitive career was over. I was stating that I imagine the treatment is for her (if the headlines are right and it is bulging discs) is to rest and do PT, which is the treatment 90% of the time unless it affects nerves or bodily function which requires emergency surgery. Nearly 100% of the time doctors will always try PT and rest to see if it goes away ( unless it is an emergency). I think she has probably done PT but she has not done the most obvious thing until now- not twisting her back. It is common sense that the problem would never go away and might worsen if she was jumping and twisting and doing layout spins.

    There some other things like spinal decompression, but No insurance would pay for a more serious option unless the standard treatment was followed first, let alone if they know that the person twists their back every day doing triple jumps. Hopefuly Rachael not attempting to twist her back will solve her back problems and allow the disc to move back into place & that there is not a more serious structural problem.
    Last edited by Blondie12; 11-14-2012 at 08:18 AM.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    She's was assigned to NHK yesterday, replacing Polina Shelpen.


    I assume you mean any athlete from any country, since while USFS has influence, they can't replace a US skater in a GP with another US skater automatically, except at Skate America, and, of course, for their own championships teams, with declared alternates.
    I was really meaning Skate America and the US choice for worlds and 4 continents. Alyssa, Rachael and Jeremy all skated injured & did not do themselves or their country any favors. I agree with the above poster that we cannot put responsibility on the athletes; athletes will be pressured to go by their coaches (as Rachael might have been)& for their own personal belief that a miracle will happen and that they will be able to skate well. If you add to that the fact that not going could mean you lose privileges, you incentivize the system to ensure athletes do not disclose. And they don't.

    I would say open up nationals. We all know who the top skaters are, 10 girls or so. Let Rachael go to nationals every year if she wants, if you limit it to any skater who skated internationally in say the last years, the pool isn't that big. Indeed pairs would only be 5 or 6 couples. You could make nationals so that you have alot of skaters but maybe only top 24 advance to long program. How long would it take 50 girls to do the short program? Not long, and they could collect massive fees.

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