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  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatesindreams View Post
    The producers don't want to be accused of "age discrimination" by excluding older designers, IMO.
    You're probably right. But, they wind up being more insulting, than if they'd just turned them down.

  2. #142
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    I don't know--Bert was not terrible by any stretch (admittedly he's been in the industry, but obviously not a name anyone recognizes.) Laura B. was well over the average start age, too, and she made it to the final. I think it depends on WHY the older contestant is trying to be on the show.

  3. #143
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    ^^ Yes, thanks very much danceronice. I see your comments after I've already composed mine below.


    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    Why do they have 59 year olds in this? That is my age. And, realistically, not an age to start in the fashion business. They never do well. I don't get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    You're probably right. But, they wind up being more insulting, than if they'd just turned them down.
    Whoa nellie! Perhaps our attitudes need to change. I know you are referring to the obstacles involved in making it in the fashion industry, but why should oldsters be excluded from starting out in any field late? Laura Bennett was one of the older contestants in the wonderful PR Season 3, and she did exceedingly well, and she's also done some PR blogging. I wonder how she is doing right now since her husband died recently, and she is raising young boys.

    But back to your ironically short-sighted "age discrimination" comments. Maybe you are remembering Peach Carr and Wendy Pepper from the current PR All Stars season. I think there are plenty of designers young and old who have been on the show who have not been as talented as the contestants who end up as the top 3 or 4 finalists. I think your comments are rather dismissive, and seemingly culturally influenced. Our culture is a youth-obsessed culture, and old people are just "thrown away" literally and figuratively. And that's not only a d**n shame, it is absolutely criminal. Have you been inside nursing homes in your or in any community recently?

    Obviously I have a lot to say about this topic. I'm not blaming you for your views, but I am curious why you would question the show's producers' inclusion of older contestants, especially since you are older than in your twenties and thirties yourself. Our culture should be more about "inclusion" than "exclusion" don't you think? Exclusion and prejudice is still a huge problem. However, PR has definitely had a sensitivity toward being inclusive, partly I think because it is about the fashion industry which employs a wide variety of unique individuals, many of whom are gay.

    But even the fashion industry has had problems with widespread inclusion e.g., of models. Veteran black models have on numerous occasions campaigned and advocated for more inclusiveness for African-American models at all levels of the fashion industry. (Forget about the lack of inclusiveness of black professionals in front of and behind the camera in the film industry, seriously). Fortunately, PR has employed quite a number of black models, but I think even PR producers were requested earlier in the show's beginnings to look at bringing in more than one or two black models. In addition, I believe Kara Saun in PR Season 1 was good enough to win, but I can understand why she didn't; Korto Momolu in PR Season 5 was great and its debatable that she didn't win -- Korto especially should have won over Daniel in the first PR All-Stars special (but the producers were all about "making it up" to Daniel for his not winning PR Season 2). Obviously, Mychael Knight was highly favored to win in Season 3, but he seemed to fall apart after Uli stole his model muse, Nasri (who IMHO is the best model ever to appear on PR). Knight subsequently "blew it" with his lame final collection. There have been a couple of other extremely talented black contestants (not necessarily Emilio btw, altho' he's quite good ) who were either eliminated too soon, or came close but no cigar re the title. Of course, Sonjia started out great in Season 10, but wilted under the pressure.

    It will be interesting to see if a black contestant ever wins on PR. The new PR 11 season's "token" black contestants and one Asian contestant seem to be pretty talented, but having talent is not always an indication of how well you'll do in the high pressure time-limited PR environment. I think how old you are should not necessarily be an indicator either. Oh, but it looks like 2 strikes against Stanley Hudson since he's black and 45. Of the two black contestants, I was groovin' more with Samantha B's funky aesthetic, but OMG, the nose ring has got to go!!! (Guess you might call me culturally-biased against nose rings, but it just looks kind of ewww most of the time, no matter who's wearin' them). I do love Stanley's stylish West Hollywood pad... Wowza! Stanley's kinda understated and cute, with a really cute doggie too, and he was sure doin' a lot of name droppin' ... Bob Mackie, et al.

    Take a look at the new PR designer intro vids: http://www.mylifetime.com/shows/proj...n-11/designers

    Anyway, I find the oldest contestant this season, Cindy Marlatt to have a very interesting background, and the PR selection committee (one of whom was Mondo) seemed impressed with her work. Again though, it's not all about talent, it's more about weathering the PR claustrophobic pressure-cooker. Perhaps you feel cruisin' that older contestants ain't hip enough, or what is it exactly? Brains headed toward mush? Creative juices dried up? Too old-fashioned? Can't keep up with smarter, younger, more stylish, more fresher hipsters? How about the oldsters have a lot of life experience, and thus possibly possess greater perspectives and knowledge about fashion and history in general than do the younger crew?!

    BTW, I think PR is "designed" to insult pretty d**n near everyone, even the viewers. Older contestants certainly don't have a monopoly on being "insulted" on this show. Do you feel extra sorry for the poor old hobbling grandmammies and grandpappies? As I recall there was an older guy (Bert Keeter, Season 9) who started out being a bit defensive but ended up fitting in not too badly, and he was actually kinda cool in the end. He showed that he had a lot of knowledge which some of the younger contestants eventually came to respect.

    In looking at the list of new contestants, in addition to the 59-year-old Marlatt, two contestants are 45, one 48, one 40, one 35, one 34, one 31, and two 30. The rest are in their mid-to-late twenties, so it's an older group in general. Are ya thinkin' all the 40 somethings and of course the 59ster will be eliminated first!? Wow, that many in their 40s too, harrumph! How dare they get started so late and think they can still "break-in" to the difficult fashion industry!!! Actually, it seems that all of the contestants have for many years been involved in or aspiring to achieve success in the fashion industry, or at the least they have had creative interests for much of their lives.

    I say, it's never too late if you're alive and kickin' to do anything you desire to do. Why place artificial limits on what's possible in life, at any age? That's one of the biggest a**-backward assumptions, and in general such thinking is at the root of what's wrong with our culture and our society.

  4. #144
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    Show isn't over yet, though it's clear where they want to go but...call me crazy, I like Joshua's dress. Yes, a SLIGHTLY different floral would have been better, but I see where it was going. And while I normally like quasi-dom black outfits, Anthony Ryan's is almost too unremittingly black. Emilio's...I agreed with them something was just not.....QUITE.....there. I don't really care for Uli's--we've seen it before.

    aftershocks--heck, for the market she sells to, I didn't think Wendy Pepper was at all bad. (And I will STILL cut a bitch for that leather corset look from her final show.) I could see where the M'burg/DC customer was in her clothes. And I didn't say so above, but I do think the whole YOUNG AND FRESH thing is a little overvalued-there's a lot to be said for an experienced eye.

  5. #145
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    I could not understand Joshua's dress in either of its iterations. And I've loved most of Uli's looks this season so I'm relieved she's in the final. Actually, I hope it is between her and AR for the win -- Emilio's dress looked awfully bulky to me.
    "Youth and vigor is no match for age and deceit." -- Prancer

  6. #146
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    Josh picked out some gorgeous purple fabric, but went with the tablecloth/housecoat flowers. Don't get it at all. Loved Emilio's snarking on the fabric and totally agree - who goes to Paris for THAT? Valentino show looked amazing, I want more fashion show shots.

    Of the top 4, I liked Emilio's construction (but not the 'pregnant model runway walk'), Uli's gold details, and AR's top. Josh - eh, maybe good ideas with the top, but that skirt? Never.

    This is totally AR's to lose. But, I have to wonder if they had decided last week to take 4 to Paris to battle it out and all we got was fake ? Loved the 'rebuild the dress' challenge, but if they had auffed Uli, I would have been done with the show.

  7. #147
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    aftershocks That is an awesome post and perfectly says what I was thinking.

  8. #148

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    Who was eliminated?
    -Brian
    "Michelle would never be caught with sausage grease staining her Vera Wang." - rfisher

  9. #149
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    Josh is out.

  10. #150

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    Thank goodness. I literally had to stop watching the episode because his eyebrows were seriously creeping me out. They have always been bad but on this show they were REALLY bad. He could be a very attractive guy but he sure tries his best to not be.
    -Brian
    "Michelle would never be caught with sausage grease staining her Vera Wang." - rfisher

  11. #151
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    When Josh picked out that print (Seriously? All the way to PARIS to buy a fabric one can get for a buck fifty a yard at JoAnn's?) we looked at each other and said that Josh is toast. What Uli did with her redo was stunning.
    "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity”– MLK

  12. #152

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    I liked the "redo" dresses better than the first ones for both of them.
    Josh's problem was his "taste level" (again).
    Choosing that fabric for the skirt was just - "no"

  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    Whoa nellie! Perhaps our attitudes need to change. I know you are referring to the obstacles involved in making it in the fashion industry, but why should oldsters be excluded from starting out in any field late? Laura Bennett was one of the older contestants in the wonderful PR Season 3, and she did exceedingly well, and she's also done some PR blogging. I wonder how she is doing right now since her husband died recently, and she is raising young boys.

    But back to your ironically short-sighted "age discrimination" comments. Maybe you are remembering Peach Carr and Wendy Pepper from the current PR All Stars season. I think there are plenty of designers young and old who have been on the show who have not been as talented as the contestants who end up as the top 3 or 4 finalists. I think your comments are rather dismissive, and seemingly culturally influenced. Our culture is a youth-obsessed culture, and old people are just "thrown away" literally and figuratively. And that's not only a d**n shame, it is absolutely criminal. Have you been inside nursing homes in your or in any community recently?

    Obviously I have a lot to say about this topic. I'm not blaming you for your views, but I am curious why you would question the show's producers' inclusion of older contestants, especially since you are older than in your twenties and thirties yourself.
    I think you are taking this way farther than I meant it. The fact is, fashion is beyond youth based. So, that is one huge hurdle. Second, starting out in any industry at 59, when you are about 5-6 years away from retirement is unlikely. Bert doesn't count, he was in the industry and came back. And Laura Bennett was 43 when she was on the show. I am 59, was an art director, before my kids were born and freelance now. I have a very good eye, but I'd never make it in the fashion world, staring out at my age. I am a very good designer and have very good sewing skills, but no one would take me seriously. I am not discriminating, I am being realistic. I worked in a peripheral industry for a very long time. And, what I find insulting is the fact that the older contestants are often criticized because of their age.

  14. #154
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    I thought Emilio deserved the win because of the unique fabric and construction, and because it had the WOW factor on the runway.

    I thought Josh should had been eliminated outright, but I LOVED his redo outfit. But we all knew the judges wanted AR, Emilio, and Uli in the finals (and so did I).

  15. #155
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    I liked Josh's concept. But the fabric was too sharp and busy. He should have gone with a more watercolor, larger pattern, with some grey tones in it. The small, tight, rendered flowers did not work with the black lace. Unfortunate, because the top was really beautiful.

    I loved Emilio's dress, but the fit, in front, could have been a little better. It looked a little maternity at some angles.

    Uli's were good.

    I didn't like AR's, it was not anything I haven't seen many times before.

  16. #156

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    I loved Emilio's dress, but the fit, in front, could have been a little better. It looked a little maternity at some angles.
    That was my first thought, as well!

  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    I didn't like AR's, it was not anything I haven't seen many times before.
    That's what I thought, but it's what the judges said about Uli's! Go figure.

  18. #158
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    I actually would buy Josh's 'remade' look (assuming they redesigned the top a little for women who actually have breasts bigger than a negative-A cup.) The fabric was WAY too busy for a long, full, skirt, but made perfect sense with the short dress. I would want sleeves of some kind, too, but that's just me, I loathe sleeveless. Changing the length and waist took it from looking like an unfinished skirt made from curtains to youthful and bright.

    Uli's...the first one I liked better than the second. That was just kind of a sad sack, the first was kind of seen-it-already, but at least it had some flare. I'm surprised she was in the bottom and not Anthony Ryan, as that was not only unremittingly black (and I LIKE black and shiny) but not very original, either. Maybe there were details I couldn't see on the TV screen. Emilo's...I kind of like it, but again, there must be something in the fabric or detailing that isn't coming across. I do hope the fact that he, Anthony Ryan, and Joshua all went with long sleeves (and a lot of those Paris couture gowns had long sleeves) mean sleeves might get more common. I hate trying to look for a dress that even has short sleeves (let alone long, which I prefer) and never finding anything.

    It was pretty clear, obviously, who was going to the final--Josh didn't look at all surprised. I wonder did they just think there had not been enough drama, or were hoping Uli would make it less of a clear predetermined result, with the one-hour challenge (if so, fail, Josh's redesign was a lot nicer, though Uli only had the beige she'd already bought to work with) or they just felt "we haven't stressed out our jet-lagged designers enough yet, let's see if we can get the last remaining DRAMA!!! person to finally give us some good TV." I don't think any of the prior contestants that were clearly brought back for drama over talent/popularity delivered what the producers wanted (Wendy was just in chill Mom mode, Ivy was on tranquilizers unless I blinked and missed a bitchfest, Josh has been totally under the radar....)

  19. #159
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    ^^ neat assessment (altho' I do think the judges liked how Uli deconstructed her original dress -- she had some construction and design problems with the original dress and she knew it). Josh's fabric choice and taste level are problematic, but he also did a good job on the deconstruction.

    This week, I really like Emilio's fabric choice, and the dress was beautiful, but ITA that maybe a few appliques well-positioned might have added something, or else something a bit different in either the cut or the length. Emilio does have a very good model, and I also like AR's model. Uli's and Joshua's models are just so-so (but maybe because its hard for one specific model to look good in everything their designer is forced to create on the show).

    I think AR did a good job of making a new dress when he was disappointed with his first one, but I thought Emilio was going to get the win the way the judges were gushing over his dress and fabric. Any case, I didn't care so much for AR's dress, altho' it looked good on the model. I just wasn't thrilled with AR's choice of black. When I saw the flowered print Joshua picked in Paris, I knew he was in trouble. He has a lot of ideas and is certainly skilled, but yes, his taste level and knowing how to edit himself is where he needs to improve. All the designers before they go on the show should learn all they can about fabrics and making fabric choices. Josh did a good job creating a different look out of the original outfit in the final face-off, but the judges were clearly intrigued and surprised by Uli's cleverness in using the lining in such a stylish way, along with making that cute jacket so quickly out of the dress fabric (plus Uli has done so well all season in comparison to Josh, so the choice was a no-brainer). In fact, the judges knew they did not want to eliminate AR last week, and it also would have been unfair to eliminate Emilio, sooo they needed another challenge to eliminate the truly weakest designer of the four remaining. Josh helped them out this week with his questionable fabric choice. ITA that Josh might have been better off making a skirt out of the purple fabric he had also purchased, but it wouldn't have likely saved him in the end from being eliminated. He does have the trip to Paris and to the House of Valentino to sustain and inspire him.


    Yeah, danceronice, I don't think Wendy Pepper was a totally bad designer, especially not during her original season, although she was perceived to be manipulative and back-stabbing (but the producers do like conflict to heat things up, as long as it's not too over the top). During this latest all-star season, I can't recall all that Wendy did in detail, but she did have a tacky miss with the belt chain outfit. As we all know, pretty much all the designers chosen are talented, but their flaws are exposed in the PR pressure cooker. I doubt most designers would be able to do their best work consistently under the conditions set up by the show's producers.


    Sure cruisin, I get your meaning but still I think that attitudes should be different. Life is never cut and dried, it just isn't. The 59-year-old (Cindy Marlatt) in Season 11 has an interesting background as a quilter, and she's always made her own clothes and has always had an eye for design. She already designs clothes for clients on a small scale, so she is not just starting out. She did decide to go to school for design later in life, but once again she's always been involved in fabric arts. The thing is, why not go for it and audition for the show. It can be a win-win experience even for those who go home early. Being a contestant on Project Runway will always be on the resume of those who win that opportunity. Altho' I'm certain that during the course of some of the extremely difficult challenges many contestants second guess the torture they willingly signed up for. In any case, from your latest post, cruisin, you seem to be saying that in one's 40s being on the show or trying to make it in the fashion industry is okay, but not okay in one's 50s?

    Obviously it is often much harder to do something different or new the older you are, and some things that involve physicality are absolutely difficult (i.e., don't expect to become a top level gymnast or figure skater starting out late, even 20s is past physical prime -- yet lots of people start skating in their 30s, 40s, and 50s these days for their own enjoyment, and these days it is possible to compete as an adult figure skater). I've heard of someone starting in their mid-20s to become a dancer, which is very late and very unusual, but not impossible (she was in modern dance though, not ballet; but there was a famous ballerina, Melissa Hayden, who started training as a dancer at the age of 15). While at very advanced ages, one can't expect to go to the Olympics, there are a few sports in which older very skilled athletes participate, such as horseback riding. In any case, why not get involved in yoga, or gymnastics, or ballet, or figure skating as an older person? So what re the attitudes toward someone who is older trying to make it in the fashion industry? Obviously, there are a lot of older people who didn't have the opportunity to pursue their dream earlier or who are getting back involved partly as a result of the high level interest our culture has in fashion and design these days. Over the years, there certainly have been quite a few older people making the attempt, and gaining the opportunity to be on PR.


    BTW, for Season 11, among the contestants there are about 4 Hispanics and one Native American, in addition to two African-Americans, and one contestant originally from Thailand. And, as mentioned earlier, quite a few contestants are in their 40s, and mid-to-late thirties, and of course the one who is 59. From some of the sneak preview clips, it looks like the gorgeous young female designers in their 20s are being called out as "divas" and worse. But clips can be deceptive -- obviously under the team challenge a lot of sparks are going to fly.

    Not sure how the team concept is going to work, but from the preview clips for Season 11, I'm not that excited about all the negative drama that seems to be involved. I have always disliked the way the judges needle team members to "throw" their fellow designers "under the bus." Ironically, I recently read an interesting article (which I'll link later) about PR's great impact on the fashion industry, in which a famous designer was quoted from an earlier season as having tipped contestants about the importance of "being nice." IOW, they were told that "being nice" is the most important thing to remember in trying to make it in the industry. Maybe that is the message PR judges on the surface would like the designers to learn, but I think their supposed intention is in conflict/ cahoots with the kind of "drama" the producers think is necessary to beef up and maintain viewership. In other words, the entire PR enterprise is so Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.
    Last edited by aftershocks; 01-12-2013 at 11:59 PM.

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    Aftershocks, I am not saying that people should not try new things or get involved in new endeavors at an older age. I just don't think PR takes the older 50+ designers seriously. I think they use them as filler for drama. It is not an age forgiving industry. Is that fair? No. But that was not my point. And, not to be unkind, but quilting and making your own clothes, are not necessarily designer qualifications. I'll have to wait and see her work.

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