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  1. #1

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    Can Duhamel & Radford close the gap on the top pairs?

    New article on Duhamel & Radford. Reads:-

    The off-season has been spent fine tuning their game to allow Radford and Duhamel to close the gap on those ranked ahead of them in the world.

    “We’ve been working on our choreography and expanding on our emotion and facial expressions in our program,” Duhamel said. “That’s really been a major focus for us in the off-season.”

    They’ve worked with an acting coach to increase their ability to emote and sell their program to the masses.

    “When we go out there this season, we really want to show that little bit of refinement, taking that extra time to create the mood, to bring people to their feet and create an experience for the audience,” Radford said.
    They will need to improve considerably to overtake Savchenko & Szolkowy, and Volosozhar & Trankov. However, they missed the bronze medal at 2012 Worlds by just 4.29 points when finishing 5th. Hence, they are certainly in with a chance of winning bronze at next years Worlds. Moreover, if S&S and/or V&T slip up, its not beyond the realms of possibility that they could finish higher than that.
    Last edited by Maofan7; 10-24-2012 at 02:27 AM.

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    Not on V/T or S/S, but a bronze medal position is certainly a possibility. Massive base value helps.

  3. #3
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    I really admire and enjoy Meagan and Eric. Best of luck to them this season!

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    They will not overtake V/T or S/S unless V/T or S/S have one bad competition but not because D/R are a better team. They need to dump the jumps they can't do. High base value is great but if you stumble and all on almost every one and give up GOE points-it's not worth it. They were lucky with the grand prix comps they were given so they will have no trouble getting medals and into the GPF.

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    V/T and S/S will go 1-2 in one order or another in every competition up to and including Sochi IMO. After that, or after the 2014 Worlds depending if both go there, it will open up a bit more. It will be interesting if V/T continue or not, especialy if they dont win Sochi gold. I fully expect if they dont win Sochi gold they will continue, but if not it will be a toss up. I expect S/S to be done at that point whether they win Sochi gold or not. Even if V/T continue past 2014 I expect that is when they would start to be challenged by up and coming teams.

    For the time being the bronze is the only position on the podium I see anyone able to fight for, and I definitely think R&D can achieve that. They would have won the bronze at Worlds last year had they skated cleanly.

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    i really enjoy watching megan and eric- i would love to see them on the world podium- i really thought they might do it last year!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    V/T and S/S will go 1-2 in one order or another in every competition up to and including Sochi IMO.
    I don't know if I would be so bold as to say that, there as too many good teams out there and both S/S and V/T are too prone to mistakes. I think 99% of competitions since there aren't going to be many more, but I would be afraid to say all.

    They would have won the bronze at Worlds last year had they skated cleanly.
    The same could have been said for most of the top teams at Worlds last year. It was a bad year for mistakes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    They need to dump the jumps they can't do. High base value is great but if you stumble and all on almost every one and give up GOE points-it's not worth it.
    They both can do all of the triples, except the axel, of course. They don't stumble and [f]all on almost every one.

    I'd argue that their best shot for the bronze is with the harder triples. (It's amazing what SBS 3Z or 3F do for one's PCS marks, oddly enough.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveRocks View Post
    They both can do all of the triples, except the axel, of course. They don't stumble and [f]all on almost every one.

    I'd argue that their best shot for the bronze is with the harder triples. (It's amazing what SBS 3Z or 3F do for one's PCS marks, oddly enough.)
    Define "doing" all the triples? They barley landed most of their jumps last season; and the four 3S and the one 3T they did land only got them 2.80 points TOTAL for the whole season. (I didn't count the WTT but they had a messy combo as well; but a good 3S in the free. He fell in the short)

    They are trying too much difficulty like the 3Lz+2T+2T and the 3F and can't perform them very well. So instead of lowering the difficulty and landing the jumps-they continue to falter, even in competitions earlier this season. I would rather see them try a 3S+2T+2T instead of looking messy.

    And that doesn't even count the mistakes on the throws. They are just really great skaters, that is where the good PCS scores come from, they are great to watch, when they land on their feet.

    TEB
    Short 3S 0.20
    Free 3Lz+2T+2T<< -2.00 (+2 falls), 3S 0.90

    SKATE CANADA
    Short 3T 0.90
    Free 3Lz<+2T+2T -0.50

    GPF
    Short 3S -1.10
    Free 3Lz -2.10 (+fall), 3S+SEQ 0.60

    4CC
    Short 3S -0.30
    Free 3Lz+2T+1T -1.10, 3S -1.90 (+fall)

    WORLDS
    Short 3Lz -2.10 (+fall)
    Free 3F+1T+2T -1.70, 3S 0.20

  10. #10

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    I'm guessing that they think in order to challenge for gold and silver rather than "just" bronze, they want to put the harder triples in the programmes. They need to keep trying them in competition to get the pratcie at them and hopefully start hitting. If they stick to the easier triples the other pairs are doing then the know their best will be bronze. I don't blame them for trying the harder triples.

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    I don't think so. I admire and appreciate them - Megan is very tough and spunky - but don't think they have either the 'wow' factor or the technical competence. Pairs does seem to have a gap at the top at the moment. To me they are in a similar league with Denny and John C, though perhaps D&R are the better team. To me both pairs are physically not a great match and lacking in elegance. There is V/T and S/S, then everyone else. P/T are in decline I think - I love them and wish they could just marry and get on with life, but figure the Chinese Fed must have pressured them to stay in.

    I think it is more likely that Takahashi and Tran will vie for bronze, or that a few new pairs will move up the ranks.

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    1. But I don't think they're unable to catch S/S and V/T because of the jump errors. They're unable to because their GOEs aren't comparable nor are their PCS. Their LP at Nationals scored 128 and change, whereas a flawed S/S will score 130+ internationally (the difference would be greater, obviously, were the competitions both international).

    2. So the question, for me, isn't will they catch those two teams, but can they make a run for bronze. And yes, I think they can. And I think the base value they get for their jumps helps. They're up against teams that are likely to screw up the side-by-side jumps as it is - Kavaguti/Smirnov, Bazarova/Larionov, Takahashi/Tran, Pang/Tong, even Denney/Coughlin - and they all go for the easier ones. Given how many times they screwed up the salchow, I can see their logic in going for the harder elements.

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    An acting coach is good, but how about ballet training for her to match his great lines.
    You can act all you want but you are being compared to Aliona and Tatiana.
    Last edited by kirkbiggestfan; 10-24-2012 at 06:44 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    V/T and S/S will go 1-2 in one order or another in every competition up to and including Sochi IMO.
    I don't agree with that. Sure, if they skate well, or even decently, they should finish 1-2, however, S/S have demonstrated the ability to fall apart on a number of occasions and V/T have underperformed a few times too. Plus, there is always the wildcard factor, where another team can overpeform at the right moment (see P/T at the 2010 Olympics).

    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    For the time being the bronze is the only position on the podium I see anyone able to fight for, and I definitely think R&D can achieve that. They would have won the bronze at Worlds last year had they skated cleanly.
    Yes, the bronze is up for grabs for some of the teams ranked 5-10, but at this time the judges still favour P/T and K/S, and perhaps even T/T, who may get the PCS 'bump' associated with getting a World medal. All of these teams would have to make major mistakes (which is certainly very possible) to give up the podium spot to any of D/R, B/L, S/H, D/C, unless these teams up their technical difficulty levels.
    Last edited by aidan; 10-24-2012 at 07:00 PM.

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    As much I like them, especially Megan, it is hard to see them win over S/S and V/T this olympiad. But I never saw T/T to take the World bronze either, and I love surprises in figure skating. Megan is one of my favourite female pair skaters, and Eric compliments her well. I would live to see them in World podium anyway!

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    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    Define "doing" all the triples? They barley landed most of their jumps last season; and the four 3S and the one 3T they did land only got them 2.80 points TOTAL for the whole season. (I didn't count the WTT but they had a messy combo as well; but a good 3S in the free. He fell in the short)

    They are trying too much difficulty like the 3Lz+2T+2T and the 3F and can't perform them very well. So instead of lowering the difficulty and landing the jumps-they continue to falter, even in competitions earlier this season. I would rather see them try a 3S+2T+2T instead of looking messy.

    And that doesn't even count the mistakes on the throws. They are just really great skaters, that is where the good PCS scores come from, they are great to watch, when they land on their feet.

    TEB
    Short 3S 0.20
    Free 3Lz+2T+2T<< -2.00 (+2 falls), 3S 0.90

    SKATE CANADA
    Short 3T 0.90
    Free 3Lz<+2T+2T -0.50

    GPF
    Short 3S -1.10
    Free 3Lz -2.10 (+fall), 3S+SEQ 0.60

    4CC
    Short 3S -0.30
    Free 3Lz+2T+1T -1.10, 3S -1.90 (+fall)

    WORLDS
    Short 3Lz -2.10 (+fall)
    Free 3F+1T+2T -1.70, 3S 0.20
    "Doing all the triples": Meagan and Eric are able to land all of the SBS triples (except axel) quite nicely. This, obviously, doesn't always mean they'll land them successfully in competition. I've watched them practice on numerous occasions -- it's quite exciting, especially their SBS 3T-3T (which won't be attempted in competition).

    Meagan and Eric "got" A LOT more than 2.80 points for their SBS jumps over the entire season! You can't ignore the base values, like you did. In the short programme at Skate Canada, for instance, they "got" 4.6 points for their SBS 3S, not 0.9 points.

    I don't have time (nor particularly care) to do all the math now (packing for Skate Canada -- wheeeeee!), but I think that Meagan and Eric are smart to keep trying the harder SBS triples. Harder SBS triples = more base value = possibility for more points.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aidan View Post
    I don't agree with that. Sure, if they skate well, or even decently, they should finish 1-2, however, S/S have demonstrated the ability to fall apart on a number of occasions and V/T have underperformed a few times too. Plus, there is always the wildcard factor, where another team can overpeform at the right moment (see P/T at the 2010 Olympics).
    P/T are very different than any of the pairs now outside of S/S and V/T now though. P/T always had World class credentials, even before the 2010 Olympics. There were a large number of teams with World class credentials who were in or close to their primes then, even if Shen & Zhou and Savchenko & Szolkowy were supposed to be the favorites. Today there is no team outside V/T and S/S at that level even if they have a "great" competion. P/T are old and clearly past their primes. Kavaguti is clearly past her best too. Then outside those teams who is the most accomplished one remaining, Takahashi & Tran with a surprise World bronze, Sui & Han with a couple World junior titles. Basically all the other top teams are a couple old near retirement ones and a bunch of up and coming ones developing and improving.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveRocks View Post
    "Doing all the triples": Meagan and Eric are able to land all of the SBS triples (except axel) quite nicely. This, obviously, doesn't always mean they'll land them successfully in competition.
    Which unfortunately is where it counts.

    Meagan and Eric "got" A LOT more than 2.80 points for their SBS jumps over the entire season! You can't ignore the base values, like you did. In the short programme at Skate Canada, for instance, they "got" 4.6 points for their SBS 3S, not 0.9 points.
    I didn't ignore the base value; I only looked at what the judges gave and by what I posted the judges weren’t really enamored with the jumps they did do well giving it less than 0.90 for thier best jump.

    I think that Meagan and Eric are smart to keep trying the harder SBS triples. Harder SBS triples = more base value = possibility for more points.
    They can certainly try; it may win them a medal and it may cost them a medal, just like harder elements cost K/S a world silver medal twice in 2009 and 2010.

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    I think they can. I hope they will.

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    P/T are very different than any of the pairs now outside of S/S and V/T now though. P/T always had World class credentials, even before the 2010 Olympics. There were a large number of teams with World class credentials who were in or close to their primes then, even if Shen & Zhou and Savchenko & Szolkowy were supposed to be the favorites. Today there is no team outside V/T and S/S at that level even if they have a "great" competion. P/T are old and clearly past their primes. Kavaguti is clearly past her best too. Then outside those teams who is the most accomplished one remaining, Takahashi & Tran with a surprise World bronze, Sui & Han with a couple World junior titles. Basically all the other top teams are a couple old near retirement ones and a bunch of up and coming ones developing and improving.
    I agree that S/S and V/T are the class of the field and will win if they are clean, even with a few mistakes. My point was that there are too many ifs, ands or buts to say these teams will place 1-2 in every competition leading up to Sochi. That's two years away!

    Both teams have shown the ability to completely bomb. Just last year, S/S lost to T/T and K/S, and T/T didn't have World class credentials at that time (now they do with their World bronze).

    Also, S/H have scored over 200 points in a competition, so I'm not sure how you can say they aren't a threat. And once they recover from their injury, they are likely going to get even better!

    And in the past, lots of people have written off P/T and Kawaguchi (and others like S/Z, Plushenko, Lysachek, Asada, etc, etc) due to age or injury, but all have come back to win major championships, so these teams have the potential to be spoilers.

    And while we all want these skaters to stay in good health, injuries could be a factor, particularly for Szolkowy who isn't young either. Look what happened to Zhao in 2006...
    Last edited by aidan; 10-25-2012 at 07:53 PM.

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