View Poll Results: K&O in 2000-2002 period without career ending injury

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  • K&O win everything (even 2000 worlds in France)

    21 26.92%
  • K&O win everything, except 99-2000 season where A&P rule

    19 24.36%
  • K&O and A&P swap wins

    21 26.92%
  • A&P dominate, and even more with poor Italian team never becoming rivals

    17 21.79%
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  1. #1
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    How would Krylova & Ovsiannikov have done in the 2000-2002 period

    Without her career ending injury how would K&O have done in the 2000-2002 period. I think they would have lost everything to A&P in the 99-2000 season since the Grand Prix final and worlds were both in France, and A&P had their best ever free dance that year. K&O though would have come back to win everything in the 2000-2001 season where A&P struggled and even began losing to a weak Italian team. 2001-2002 season I am not sure but I will go with K&O winning the Olympic title since a much poorer Russian team almost did. K&O would probably skip worlds with A&P winning their 2nd world title there.

  2. #2
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    Who knows. The politics of dance is the hardest to figure, and A&P might have taken a different path, especialy after 2000, with K&O around to push them. I am sure Anissina & Peizerat win the 2000 worlds in Nice though. Just no way that wasnt happening.

  3. #3
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    I LOVED Krylova/Ovsiannikov! They are my favorite Russian dance team of the last 22 years since Klimova/Ponomarenko. I really wish they could have won an Olympic Gold Medal!! Their Carmen was so fierce!

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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    Their Carmen was so fierce!
    I KNOW!

    This is why I was so confused when Virtue was considered a fierce Carmen. Like - havent you guys seen Krylova? THAT'S FIERCE!
    As of March 2013 - no longer scared of TAHbKA or Andrey aka Pushkin

  5. #5
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    Most likely swap wins with A&P.

  6. #6
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    I believe K&O could have been 1st all along even in Nice. If my memory tells me well, Anissina & Peizerat had problems in the OD and a wobble in the FD in the 2000 Worlds. In 2001, Anissina & Peizerat had troubles both in the OD and the FD. Who knows what could have happened but K&O had much better consistency.

  7. #7
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    K&O would have won everything including Olympic Gold and they were just extremely unlucky that G&P were so good and that Krylova then had to retire due to injury. They were an absolutely top team light years ahead of A&P.

  8. #8
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    I find it funny to see so far the only votes (well pretty much all of them) are going to the top and bottom options. IMO only the middle two are even possible. A&P losing the 2000 worlds or 99 grand prix final is IMO impossible, but A&P dominating K&O through the whole quad when they were not even able to dominate past the 2000 worlds without K&O is also IMO impossible.

  9. #9
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    Are the people who voted that A&P would dominate K&O related to them or are they joking?!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    I find it funny to see so far the only votes (well pretty much all of them) are going to the top and bottom options. IMO only the middle two are even possible. A&P losing the 2000 worlds or 99 grand prix final is IMO impossible, but A&P dominating K&O through the whole quad when they were not even able to dominate past the 2000 worlds without K&O is also IMO impossible.
    The weird thing is that I had A&P dominating the 2000-2001 season even though the judges saw differently. Now whether or not that would've happened if K&O were around is something I can't say of course because who knows what sort of material they would've had. But I actually really really like Beethoven's Last Night. It was a very ambitious program crammed with a lot of good content. I personally enjoyed it.

  11. #11

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    Undoubtedly, in my view, krylova & Ovsyannikov would have gone on to win the 2002 Olympic title, as well as the 2000, 2001, and 2002 World titles (to add to the 1998 & 1999 World titles they did win), had Krylova's back injury not ended their careers.

    Here is a 2012 interview with Krylova, which was translated for the board by the brilliant quiqie, in which she discusses her career ending injury:-


    Quote Originally Posted by quiqie View Post
    http://www.pressball.by/news.php?t=0504&id=76528

    Anjelika Krylova: "I want beauty!"


    A month ago, many famous skaters came to "Minsk-Arena" for the Junior World Figure Skating Championships. Great coaches, famous athletes. But for some reason I immediately wanted to interview Anjelika Krylova, this oriental beauty of Uzbek descent, who married an Italian and lives in the United States. She rarely comes to Moscow, and she has been to Belarus just once, for the USSR championships many years ago. But the two-time world champion, 1998 Olympic silver medalist in ice dance has not settled for being just a housewife. 38-year-old Anjelika coaches together with her husband, Pasquale Camerlengo, and very successfully. Most recent proof of it are the results of the World Championships in Nice, where one of their teams - Nathalie Pechalat/Fabian Bourzat of France - has won a bronze medal, and another - Canadians Kaitlyn Weaver/Andrew Poje - have finished in 4th place. It is remarkable, especially when compared to the performances of Russian dancers, who stayed behind. And Pechalat skated with pain: a couple of weeks before the Worlds in their home country, Nathalie broke her nose in practice, but decided to postpone the operation. One can't help but remember that for five years Krylova, as she says, was dying from pain, but still went out on the ice. In recent years the centre of ice dance has moved overseas. The Olympics in Vancouver, as well as 2011 and 2012 World Championships, were dominated by the athletes who train in the U.S. Musings of young and successful coach Anjelika Krylova are interesting in this context as well. Anjelika began our conversation (which was before her American students Aldridge/Eaton became third at "Minsk-Arena") with words of admiration:

    - Ice palace in Minsk is amazing, it's fantastic! World-class arena. I saw all the rinks, cycle track, speed skating rink. The palace is great, as are the ice and lighting. All is well maintained. I really liked it. It matters - the rink, the atmosphere. Here the atmosphere is warm, conditions are wonderful, hotels are good. Honestly, I did not expect it.

    - You've became a big authority as a coach. Did it take a long time to adapt to a new life after the life in sports?

    - In principle, yes. My husband and I started from scratch. We decided together to create a school from literally nothing. We had only one pair. I finished skating professionally in 2004. After that I had my first child in 2005, then the second in 2007. And I've been very busy with children for the first three years. I coached, but I could not travel as coaches do.

    - You've been living in America for a long time, haven't you?

    - Very long. In 1994 we moved there with Natalia Linichuk. She had a big group in Delaware: Grishuk with Platov, Averbukh with Lobacheva, Galya Chait and Sergei Sakhnovsky, I and Oleg Ovsyannikov. And I stayed in Delaware for ten years. Then my husband and I were invited to Detroit, provided the conditions, and we began our coaching career. And somehow it worked. Of course, it was a big luck that athletes had faith in us and came to us. Now we have a very large group - fourteen pairs.

    - Wow!

    - Yes, from all countries. And there are five coaches, including Natasha Annenko (she skated with Genrikh Sretenski), Massimo Scali.

    - Who is the head of the school?

    - My husband. But everyone in the team has their function: someone works on technique, someone creates programs. To coordinate so many teams, significant organization efforts are needed. Pasquale does it. Now there are more athletes who want to come to us, there is not enough ice, we need to ask. We are working on it. The Detroit Club has grown a lot. There are great single skaters (including the (reigning) National American champion), and especially ice dance school is strong, because Igor Shpilband is nearby, in Campton, another ice dance centre is in Ann Arbor. All in one place. Of course, the adaptation period took some time. It took three or four years to start coaching seriously. Everything has played its role: luck and hard work and love for what we do. And, perhaps, to some extent, a talent, too. My husband worked in France before, with Muriel Boucher-Zazoui in Lyon. However, we wanted to do something else. Perhaps, we could collaborate with someone. Many athletes who left the sport did that: they worked with extra-class coaches first - Tarasova, Tchaikovskaya, Dubova. It was easier to learn like that. But for us everything worked out different way.

    - You went your own way from the beginning?

    - Oh, you know, I wanted at first to work with Linichuk. I asked her, offered my help, because I had an injury, the sport had ended very suddenly, and I wanted to learn a little bit. However, it did not work out for us. And now, frankly, I am glad that I got it myself, with my own mistakes, disappointments and joys. You don't understand it fully before you go through it. But this is, of course, only the beginning! There is still so much to learn, how to communicate, to understand the psychology of athletes. It's still difficult, to tell the truth, because I'm young, and some skaters are grown-ups, for example, the French pair Nathalie Pechalat/Fabian Bourzat. Fabian is 30 or 31, and he thinks I'm almost the same age. And to hold him down a little, to make it clear that I am the coach and he is an athlete was not easy, especially in the first year they worked with us. Everything takes time. And there is very little time left, because the Olympics are in two years. They are yielding, little by little, but it’s still quite difficult. And we have a very strong Canadian team, Weaver/Poje. They are very much talked about now, they've made huge progress. They all train on the same ice, compete, perhaps, it pushes them for greater progress. After all, we also trained with Grishuk and Platov together for the first or second place. And Virtue/Moir and White/Davis also train like this, on the same ice. Maybe there is something to it.

    - Such a fierce rivalry probably doesn't let them even rest between practices, let alone at competitions!

    - Yes. But the athletes seem to understand that we are trying to give everyone our maximum.

    - Here, at the Junior World Championships, you have an Estonian team that you started coaching not long ago. Our federation is also a small one, so this experience is interesting. Who provides the funding for these athletes?

    - Estonian Federation does not fund this team at all. Parents pay for everything. Yes, it's hard for small federations, even if there are talented athletes. It's not like in the Soviet Union, when thousands of children skated, and then there was a selection - that's why everything went so easy. Figure skating was very popular at that time. It's good that nowadays its popularity comes back, partly, of course, thanks to Averbukh and "Ice Age". I'm very glad. I always cheer for Russian athletes, because in my heart I'm Russian. Of course, I would like for Russian ice dance to get on a higher level.

    - And why isn't it happening, what do you think?

    - I do not know, I do not want to blame anyone, because everyone works very hard. Lena Kustarova is a great coach, she works with many teams, they do a great job. It's just that sometimes it's hard to get both dances right - the free and the original. Something just doesn't work sometimes. I think that this season, Bobrova/Soloviev's program got a bit of critique. Although, as for me, it is very good, dramatic. Maybe they were a bit off style, because the ISU now wants something more cheerful and uplifting. But for me the program and the skaters are strong. I do not know, it's hard to say because for me, they are our competitors and I cannot criticize them. The second Russian team is also very good, they just are not ready yet.

    - But Russian ice dance falls behind not only this season. I'm sure the reason is not only the coach ...

    - No, I think, the Federation now provides the funding, they try very hard to be ready for Sochi. And, I believe, they get money for everything. Coaches just need to give the athletes the direction: what to do, which choreographers to work with, which acrobats, etc. Now there is a lot of different work that we didn't do before, because now the rules were different. Now classical ballet is important. However, probably that's what Russians do, for me it's difficult to judge.

    - When does your team of experts invite dancers and acrobats?

    - Usually in the beginning of the season, when the programs are being set. We look for new elements, lifts, new tricks. Now it is very important for the technical mark that greatly influences the total.

    - What is the difference between the dances that were in your time and now?

    - I quit the sport in 1999. And the ISU had introduced the new judging system in season 1999/2000, I think, for greater objectivity. But for me the actual dancing it's the dances that were before. Now there is a program that consists of elements and transitions between them. It lacks a certain integrity. Its very rare now, well, maybe top seven or eight pairs at Worlds have it. But mostly there are repetitive elements, and it's so dull that the audience is not interested. It becomes elements for the sake of elements, there is no emotion, integrity and character. There are very rare exceptions - teams with a truly great technique. Perhaps this is what makes the difference ...

    - What then, where are we going?

    - I do not know. We will continue to skate well, to keep ice dance in the Olympic family. Of course, I would like to see more skating, something interesting, something new. But the technique that was before - deep edges - as I see it, is gone. Everyone does the same. Interesting transitions, interesting elements are lost.

    - They are no longer scored?

    - Yes. Therefore, everyone is obsessed with technique. There is very little artistry left.

    - The situation cannot be changed?

    - I do not know. In the ISU, they think about it, hold consultations with coaches all the time, ask: "What do you want?" Maybe they take something into consideration, but, it seems, they'll do as they would like anyway. However, even under this system, we have to find some soul. The soul that was before, especially Russians, they had it, is lost now. I cannot speak about myself, I will say about the older generation. Ponomarenko, Zhulin... It was such skating... They are still my idols. Yes, now there are Canadians, Americans, but still for me it's not the same. They perform elements, they do the tricks, but something is missing!

    - You talk about it with such regret.

    - Yes. And you don't think so? It's just different levels of skating.

    - It's not exciting anymore.

    - Exactly! That's what I'm saying, there is no soul in ice dance, there should be projection. Of course, the Canadians are a unique pair. Scott Moir is an enormous talent. They tried to attune to this system. For me, they are number one, even though they compete closely with the Americans. But I really would like to see Russian ice dancers on top of the podium. And the sooner the better. I do not know what will happen in Sochi, but after the Olympics they should ...

    - Now it's too late to change anything?

    - It is very difficult. Of course, nothing is impossible. Let's see, wait and see. The Federation will work, coaches, athletes.

    - You mentioned the rivalry between Virtue/Moir and Davis/White. It in some way resembles the fierce battle between you and another team coached by Natalia Linichuk.

    - You mean Grishuk and Platov? Yes, there is something similar. However, for the first two years we, Oleg Ovsyannikov and I, were not quite the same level, and when the serious competition began in 1998, Grishuk and Platov switched to another coach. And Virtue/Moir and Davis/White continue to train together. So for me, it's interesting how it works for them. And everyone wants to know, I think! Surely the Americans are eager to win the Olympics. And they have what it takes. But the Canadians are not giving up either. I do not know how they are going to continue in the same group ...

    - How do you explain to yourself why you didn't win at Olympics in 1998?

    - Oh, you know, I do not think about it now, absolutely. There is only one first place, and I think we did everything we could. Many experts say that we should have won. And the others are sure that Grishuk and Platov should. Opinions split. I think that our federation supported them, and that was what really mattered. I do not think we skated worse. Just the federation decided that I would be able to skate for another four years until the next Olympics.

    - The federation did not know about your health?

    - Apparently, no, they thought, I would last for one more Olympic cycle, maybe with some treatment, and so on. But I had some really serious problems with my back, cervical disc hernia, vertebrae displacement. I felt really bad, suffered a lot… Yes, there was resentment at the beginning. But what we could do? We did our best. And judges score according to the federation, unless someone makes serious mistakes. However, I do not want to badmouth Russian Figure Skating Federation. Of course, they did a lot for me and for my victories. But I think that that's how it happened at Nagano Olympics. Because if we won there, we would quit. And then there would be a gap, because there was no one after us. That's how it happened. But it's okay, a silver medal is also a very good result.

    - Now in Russia they talk a lot about repatriating Russian coaches. Have anyone approached you?

    - No. But Kolya Morozov has already returned to Moscow. He works with many ice dancers and single skaters. They invited him, provided all the conditions in Novogorsk. And I think he works well. Let's see in Sochi, everything is aimed for that… No one has offered me anything. But I am not ready to leave now, because I have everything in Detroit, it just does not make sense to leave. If there is any Russian top team (either juniors or seniors), then of course I would very much like to work with them. But I am not ready to go and leave everything I have. Although I love Moscow and I'm always happy to come back. I feel at home there.

    - Does your mother live with you in America?

    - No, my mother lives in Moscow. I have homes in both countries: I have a place to stay if I come. We have house in Detroit, children go to school there. We have a nanny. And my husband helps, too. Now he is at home, but we will go together to the senior World championships, because we will have five teams in Nice. It is a very good achievement.

    - Teams from what countries?

    - From France, Canada, USA, Australia and Italy. It was a big leap for the past two years. We have reached a very high level. It's great, I'm happy with this result. And we're not going to stop there, we go ahead and hope to reach world's podium. And Olympic, of course.

    - How is it to work with your own husband?

    - It's hard. But I really like it. I think that we really complement each other. We are different, even in technique. And when we start to explain things to athletes, we have to come to an agreement first, because I'm from Russian school, and he's from British.

    - British? But he's Italian!

    - Yes. But his coach was an Englishman, and they had many training camps in England. And they were taught a little differently than we were in Russia. They have different carriage, different knee bend. Of course, we have debates, but somehow we come to an agreement, we try. And I won't say that we always work in close contact. He works with some athletes, I work with others. Then we discuss. I think it's wonderful. When husband and wife skate as a team, they are always together. Hence the fights and everything else since it's tiring. And we, Pasquale and me, we are not constantly together.

    - You say, Russian school, English school... And what style do you teach your athletes?

    - Of course, Russian, as we were taught. Basics are all ours. I think it's ice dance perfection – edges, stroking, body carriage, beauty. Of course, I want to see it. And when I do not see it, I get angry. And the athletes understand. I take videos, show them how it should be. I want beauty! Sometimes there is none.

    - Do you show the moves to the athletes yourself?

    - Naturally! I'm always on the ice, I skate with them. If something is wrong, they don't understand, then I skate up, take a partner, show them. Probably, that's why we have such a progress in our group, because all the coaches are out on the ice themselves.

    - For me since childhood figure skating coach is someone standing at the boards wearing furs.

    - Basically, that was Linichuk's coaching style. This may have its own charm, when you look from the outside. Some coaches say, if you show yourself then an athlete takes after you. But I want the athletes took something good from me. At the same time I strive to highlight their individuality. I set programs that suit them best, I don't want to think about me. Yes, I have to like the music, but most importantly, it should suit them. But I'm, of course, for the aesthetics, for beauty in ice dance.

    - Do you show your students tapes with your own performances?

    - Oh, they watch it themselves. I do not like to watch myself, because I see a lot of mistakes. Ask anyone, no one likes to watch oneself. Because even the top skaters find some things that are not good enough.

    - Is there an ideal in figure skating for you?

    - My ideal has always been Usova/Zhulin. Of course, Torvill/Dean. Klimova/Ponomarenko. These three teams, for me, are the highest level. And everyone who skates now or skated before are far from that. Yes, the Duchesnays were good, but only for choreography of their programs. And teams of that generation, of course, were real dancers. I want to teach someone to skate like that and to make elements work under the new system – this is my goal.

  12. #12
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    Thanks for that. Anjelika turned out to be a fantastic coach. I did find it funny that her ideal were Usova & Zhulin though I thought K&O were better than U&Z even as a die hard G&P fan.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xela M View Post
    Thanks for that. Anjelika turned out to be a fantastic coach. I did find it funny that her ideal were Usova & Zhulin though I thought K&O were better than U&Z even as a die hard G&P fan.
    Yeah I dont get that either. A&P didnt even dominate without K&O so how could they dominate with them. Maybe they lost their hunger some in the 2000-2001 season though, and it would be interesting to see how much better they would skate with K&O still there.

  14. #14
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    I think they would have won everything. A&P only started winning major competitions after K&O retired (except GPs at which K&O weren't competing, of course). A&P actually weren't even an extremely dominant team, since they were beaten by FP&M at quite a few comps. They just kind of took over the space K&O vacated because someone had to. That's not to say they aren't talented, but had K&O been around, they might never have won a World Championship or OGM.

  15. #15
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    Do I think K/O would have dominate? Yes (Russia was able to push Lobatcheva to the Olympic silver, only one vote from gold after all )
    But do I think they would deserve it? Definitely not !

    Maybe I'm in minority, but I think A/P were far superior team. I think A/P were a unique combination of passionate, dynamic Marina with great technical skills and lyrical, artistic Gwendal with perfect dancing skills. K/O on the other hand always seemed to me like a very unbalanced team. I have no problem with him, other that I hardly ever noticed him next to her. She, on the other hand....I find she's one of the most unnatural dancers ever, everything looks like she's only repeating movements she's trained, there's no soul, no dance, we say in Czech "her back is like she has eaten a ruler". And in addition her expressions were really over the top, sometimes, her smile looks to me more like a painful grimace.
    That said, I loved her as Carmen. Imo that program was a masterpiece and the role was simply stunning for her. I also quite liked them in classical styled routines or waltzes. Other than that, I think they were really mediocre, if not in terms of technical skills, than at least in terms of dancing. This is a great example, imo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKrmQXKaWG4 (A/P at 2:05, K/O at 11.30). Same music, same competition, but I find A/P much more in style, natural, funny, respecting the style of the dance, while K/O, starting with the dress, look ridiculous to me. And I have the same impression for example while watching their 1998 OD,...

    To get back to the topic, A/P had no politics behind them sadly, so I think they would lose to K/O. Otoh, if K/O and A/P were fighting together and considered rivals, I can't imagine Italians being pushed behind one of those teams. The whole situation in 2001 was a complete joke...

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by sykr View Post

    To get back to the topic, A/P had no politics behind them sadly, so I think they would lose to K/O. Otoh, if K/O and A/P were fighting together and considered rivals, I can't imagine Italians being pushed behind one of those teams. The whole situation in 2001 was a complete joke...
    Really? I never felt that way about them. Actually, if my memory tells me right, A&P totally destroyed Moniotte and Lavanchy in France due to politics. There were some pretty interesting interviews with Sophie about that...

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    Well Sophie Moniotte is delusional enough to think they were a better team than Anissina & Peizerat, so that already makes me disinterested in whatever else she has to say on the topic.

    Anyway A&P were regularly beaten by M&L until the 98 Olympics where M&L were absolutely horrible and could have placed nowhere near A&P. Even the 96-97 season when in reality A&P were probably by now the better team, M&L and B&K both regularly were placed above A&P undeservedly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaiKozOda View Post
    Really? I never felt that way about them. Actually, if my memory tells me right, A&P totally destroyed Moniotte and Lavanchy in France due to politics. There were some pretty interesting interviews with Sophie about that...
    Yes, of course in France, it's different (even if I think it was completely fair, that they started to beat M/L in 1998. But I agree M/L were sacrificed because of them and deserved better that year). But I mean internationally, no way such a team looses to B/K in so many cases (including GPF in 2001 that pushed them to changed the original version of Liberta, which I liked much more, to be honest), to the Jungle free program, to Margaglio and almost to Lobacheva...

    I'm quite sure if Anissina and Averbukh stayed together, they would be the team to challenge G/P, not K/O and Marina would do much better in terms of results as Russian.That said, I know it's a big "if" and I'm happy I had a chance to be a fan of the stunning A/P team But I still think A/P are the worst treated team of that period (together with Drobiazko/Vanagas)

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    M&L were wretched at the 1998 Olympics. It was sad for them they got injured but it looked like they had trained for the event 2 weeks at most. I dont know if that was the case but it was how they looked. I dont see anything wrong their placements there other than it was humiliating for a former world medalist in dance.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by sykr View Post
    Do I think K/O would have dominate? Yes (Russia was able to push Lobatcheva to the Olympic silver, only one vote from gold after all )
    But do I think they would deserve it? Definitely not !

    Maybe I'm in minority, but I think A/P were far superior team. I think A/P were a unique combination of passionate, dynamic Marina with great technical skills and lyrical, artistic Gwendal with perfect dancing skills. K/O on the other hand always seemed to me like a very unbalanced team. I have no problem with him, other that I hardly ever noticed him next to her. She, on the other hand....I find she's one of the most unnatural dancers ever, everything looks like she's only repeating movements she's trained, there's no soul, no dance, we say in Czech "her back is like she has eaten a ruler". And in addition her expressions were really over the top, sometimes, her smile looks to me more like a painful grimace.
    That said, I loved her as Carmen. Imo that program was a masterpiece and the role was simply stunning for her. I also quite liked them in classical styled routines or waltzes. Other than that, I think they were really mediocre, if not in terms of technical skills, than at least in terms of dancing. This is a great example, imo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKrmQXKaWG4 (A/P at 2:05, K/O at 11.30). Same music, same competition, but I find A/P much more in style, natural, funny, respecting the style of the dance, while K/O, starting with the dress, look ridiculous to me. And I have the same impression for example while watching their 1998 OD,...

    To get back to the topic, A/P had no politics behind them sadly, so I think they would lose to K/O. Otoh, if K/O and A/P were fighting together and considered rivals, I can't imagine Italians being pushed behind one of those teams. The whole situation in 2001 was a complete joke...
    I more or less agree with you. I liked K&O's waltz OD in 1999 but I hated their golden waltz CD at the 98 Olympics. Her back posture struck me as strange and she struck a very unattractive position during the part where the woman is dipped and is parallel to the ice. I found her a little awkward to watch at times, partly because of her expression. I thought her Carmen looked psychotic. And her facial expressions during the jive od that year was borderline vomit-inducing for me. I found a lot about her skating to be extremely forced and unnatural.

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