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  1. #41
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    The judges have basically tied the top two teams in PCS--it's the technical side that is taking a hit. D/W's SD had the least amount of hits, but even that had a level two for one of the YP patterns and the crazy lift at the end. I think all four programs from these two teams will be doing a lot of growing and perfecting, so at this point I don't know what to expect.

    I think Meryl and Charlie are too comfortable and entrenched where they are now to move before the Olympics, but like others have said, if their results stagnate even with improvements made in training, I think they're competitive enough to do some haaaaard thinking.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    Well, what should they do in public, start shooting at each other? Or stick their toques out? Figure skating is sometimes a hypocritical world; people are smiling at each other even if they wish they could strangle each other.
    Hugging is not same as smiling.

  3. #43
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    I prefer Luca's and Anna's Carmen too.

  4. #44

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    Marina has no clue about technical aspects, she never has, she never will. All she'll do is keep on with those teams thanks to what Igor did before. V&M are already working with many more people now that Igor is gone, the ones not doing that will falter because she doesn't get the levels. IT was Igor's work, hers was to politik.
    poths Void: MarieM carries a rusty old blade in her handbag!

  5. #45
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    i have the impression that staying in the k&c even after,is a way to intimidate the rivals..i might be wrong.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Hugging is not same as smiling.
    i've seen lots of fake hughs in my everyday life

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarieM View Post
    Marina has no clue about technical aspects, she never has, she never will. All she'll do is keep on with those teams thanks to what Igor did before. V&M are already working with many more people now that Igor is gone, the ones not doing that will falter because she doesn't get the levels. IT was Igor's work, hers was to politik.
    I always thought Igor was supposed to be the politician. At least that's what I remember people saying when he had B&A. His MO was to coach teams from tiny countries like Estonia and Lithuania so he could get their judge in his pocket. It'll be interesting now that he doesn't really have any top teams so he has nothing to trade or barter. The only "name" team he has full time is Chock/Bates, right? Then there are C&L and R&T, but I don't see either one making a big breakthrough until after Sochi.

    Marina will do fine with D&W and V&M because they already have the technical base but it's going to be hilarious when they retire. I really doubt she can bring a team up from scratch which Igor can. Her teams can have horrible technik in addition to her horrible choreography. I guess she'll try to make herself into a Tarasova, a "finishing" coach who takes more established teams and gives them a makeover, but it's not going to work as well under CoP because it all comes down to levels.


    Quote Originally Posted by martyross View Post
    i have the impression that staying in the k&c even after,is a way to intimidate the rivals..i might be wrong.
    That was often said of Katarina Witt. I'm sure it's not true in this case, as C&L have always been complimentary to V&M and I'm sure they just wanted to closely observe the debut of the other Carmen.

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    C&L have always been complimentary to V&M and I'm sure they just wanted to closely observe the debut of the other Carmen.
    Yes, they always look up to them and they have often told me how much they appreciate their programs.
    A grumpy Canadian will always be nicer than a polite Milanese

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    I always thought Igor was supposed to be the politician. At least that's what I remember people saying when he had B&A. His MO was to coach teams from tiny countries like Estonia and Lithuania so he could get their judge in his pocket. It'll be interesting now that he doesn't really have any top teams so he has nothing to trade or barter. The only "name" team he has full time is Chock/Bates, right? Then there are C&L and R&T, but I don't see either one making a big breakthrough until after Sochi.

    Marina will do fine with D&W and V&M because they already have the technical base but it's going to be hilarious when they retire. I really doubt she can bring a team up from scratch which Igor can. Her teams can have horrible technik in addition to her horrible choreography. I guess she'll try to make herself into a Tarasova, a "finishing" coach who takes more established teams and gives them a makeover, but it's not going to work as well under CoP because it all comes down to levels.
    Marina was the one with the more political approach. And she was the one bargaining, not Igor. Igor tried to do that, but he was also a lot more subtle in his approach. Had Marina been there before, I am sure Tanith and Ben would have been world champions at least once.

    But Marina is a not a developping coach AT ALL. She stole Gordeeva/Grinkov, and now she does it again, to another of her colleague, once again for fame, control and probably money. But she is no Tarassova nor Linitchuk. Because Tarassova or Linitchuk once took teams from scratch while Marina hasn't and probably can't. Once her current teams retire, it'll indeed be fun to watch
    poths Void: MarieM carries a rusty old blade in her handbag!

  10. #50
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    Remind me who Tarassova took from scratch? All I can recall is a time people spoke about her the same way you speak about Marina.

  11. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcg View Post
    Remind me who Tarassova took from scratch? All I can recall is a time people spoke about her the same way you speak about Marina.
    Tarasova is now 65. I am pretty sure she didn't start her coaching career with coaching elite skaters. It is not how it works. No one would give elite skaters to complete beginner coach. So there must have been a lot of students she had at the beginning of her career who she started coaching from scratch.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    Tarasova is now 65. I am pretty sure she didn't start her coaching career with coaching elite skaters. It is not how it works. No one would give elite skaters to complete beginner coach. So there must have been a lot of students she had at the beginning of her career who she started coaching from scratch.
    Thanks but that didn't really answer my question or my point.

    eta..I found my own answer, I think, so far B&B
    Last edited by bmcg; 10-29-2012 at 02:41 PM.

  13. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcg View Post
    Thanks but that didn't really answer my question or my point.
    Well, I wasn't around 40- 45 years ago when she started coaching and I was never interested in Russian skating around 1970s so I wouldn't really know who from beginners she managed to bring successfully to Europeans/Worlds medals. But you could do your own research if you are interested...

    She must have had some pretty impressive results because she was awarded
    Honoured coach of the USSR (1975)
    Honoured coach of the RSFSR (1972)

    At that time she was 25 and 28 years old. I don't think people are getting coaching awards in their twenties that often.
    Last edited by hanca; 10-29-2012 at 02:50 PM.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post

    That was often said of Katarina Witt.
    Witt didn't simply sit in the K&C and observed her top competitor while they were skating. She stood right by the board .

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by orbitz View Post
    Witt didn't simply sit in the K&C and observed her top competitor while they were skating. She stood right by the board .
    like cat wars for territory. i love it! im crazy for this kind of tricks between competitors. its fascinating. human behaviour shows its animal nature.
    wish i could know more about it

  16. #56

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    Zueva is known for what actually ? I mean as of coaching ? On her own, she never achieved anything. She had, twice at least, had to steal from another coach whom she was a partner to achieve something in her name.
    Tarassova on the other hand was being know well before her successes for what she had done with young skaters from scratch.
    poths Void: MarieM carries a rusty old blade in her handbag!

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by martyross View Post
    i have the impression that staying in the k&c even after,is a way to intimidate the rivals..i might be wrong.
    ? A lot of times I see skaters get up to go only to be told to stay in the K&C, then they are allowed leave sometime during the next performance.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post



    Both V/M and D/W are considered front-runners for gold and silver in Sochi, and no one thinks that's because they've made a break-through with Zoueva. If they keep this advantage, it's because he was responsible for getting them to that level. If they lose the advantage, it was on Zoueva's watch. As SLIVER said, if D/W come in second (or lower) to V/M this season, there's a good chance he'll get them back, although if Davis is (still) involved with Andreev, this could get tricky.
    You really think so? I feel like if they wanted to go with Igor they would've done it. Also I think especially with Igor's comments about V/M, and who knows if he'll say anything about his other teams, time will tell, but if they left I think that it could get ugly and be a distraction and I just don't believe D/W are interested in that at all.

  19. #59
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    Yeah, like B/A were never going to leave Shpilband/Zoueva, until they felt like second fiddle to the teams that started to beat them, and left a year too late.

    I don't think V/M would leave, even if they, by some miracle, finish second to D/W: I think win or lose, they'll get more outside choreography. D/W, though, especially if the judges start to distinguish the difference between V/M's FD, and the shite that is D/W's, might very well switch to Shpilband in the Olympic year to get full attention. It's not like B/A moving to a new environment and training regimen, but a switch to one with which they're familiar.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  20. #60
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    I think they should have gone to Shpilband this summer, actually. Take the 2011 tango, if it was indeed made by Shpilband, that was the right route for them imo. It was very technical, but not in a negative sense because, in art, pure technique can have its own, fascinating aesthetic. so the tango was actually captivating but not in the normal sense of the tangos. and it managed to be connected to the music.
    Chock/Bates's Zivago shows this kind of technical beauty and clarity that goes along with the music. it's much better than Notre dame de Paris, so, if Davis/White were given, say, this Zivago program, they would have looked more interesting this year.
    Zoueva is romantic, an old soul: Valse triste, Mahler. Nineteen century. She probably share the same romantic sensitiveness with Tessa and Scott. And with the word romantic I mean a much wider concept, obviously. Now, Davis and White probably don't share the same vibe. They skate in full speed, they're not contemplative. They could represent a new, "modern" concept of ice dance, but only if they're guided by someone like Shpilband, who understands them better.
    This year, they want to push hard on "chemistry". As a matter of fact, I feel some sensuality from Notre dame FD, the problem is, if they want to tell the story/relation of Quasimodo and Esmeralda, well, sensuality is not exactly the main component of it. i'm not sure what the concept of the FD is because the cuts are confusing. they probably pick the best-sounding parts of the musical, or the parts that they liked the most, but they don't work together. unless the purpose is not telling a story but to show some different moments of the story without a real connection inbetween.
    but if the key word is "chemistry", they still should make clear what character Charlie is playing. there is no sensual chemistry between the hunchback and the girl. second, if chemistry, as Zoueva intends it (i.e., in a romantic way), is not their strenght, it's a mistake to force to make it come. it's like trying to unlock a door with an herring

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