Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 43
  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    474
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0

    Repeating jumps question

    I know you can only repeat two triples in a program, how does this work for quads?

    Can you repeat a quad and repeat two triples? Or is the rule about repeating triples and up?

  2. #2
    Recovering from the Olys
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    28,279
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    16342
    Quote Originally Posted by johndockley92 View Post
    Can you repeat a quad and repeat two triples?
    Yes because quads are not considered the same as triples in the current rules.

    ETA: That's why Javier Fernandez could do 4S, a 3F half loop 3S combo, and a solo 3S in his Skate Canada FS last night.
    Last edited by Sylvia; 10-28-2012 at 02:44 PM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  3. #3

    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    France
    Posts
    3,540
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    2946
    he also could have done :
    4T-1/2 Lp-3S
    4S-3T
    4T
    4S
    3S-3T
    ;-)

  4. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    1,944
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    With quads as with triples - one of the two must be done in combination, right?

    I had this discussion with a friend last year at Nationals and she didn't believe me.

  5. #5
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Between 6.0 and IJS
    Posts
    163
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by skatak View Post
    he also could have done :
    4T-1/2 Lp-3S
    4S-3T
    4T
    4S
    3S-3T
    ;-)
    This would not be allowed. Of all the triples and quads, only two can be repeated. In your example, the skater would get a star (*; invalid element) for the 3S-3T, as the 3T would be the third quad/triple repeated jump. (I wish this rule were not in place!) As Sylvia mentioned, quads and triples with the same name are not considered the same jump.
    So a skater could do, say:
    4S
    4S-3T
    4T
    4T-2T
    3S
    3A
    3Lz
    3Lo-2T-2Lo

    The 4S and 4T are repeated, so no other triple or quads can be repeated, but the skater can still do 3S (as it is a different animal than the 4S). If the 4S-3T had been 4S-2T, then a 3T could be performed in place of another triple with no penalty.

  6. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    474
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    ^^ Does this not contradict what Sylvia just said? Now I'm confused.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    4,747
    vCash
    289
    Rep Power
    14960
    Bonus question: is there a limit to how many quad jumps a skater can do in a long program? Let's say Artur was fully fit and firing on all cylinders and prepared to unload his entire arsenal. Would he be allowed to do a layout like:

    4T-3T
    4T
    4Lo
    4Lz
    4S
    (and then just add a couple of 3As and a 3Lz?)

  8. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    474
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    There is no limit to number of quads performed so long as they are different. Technically speaking, if able to perform, a skater such as Mroz could do 2 4Ts 2 4S, 4f, 4Lo, 4Lz, and 3A

    Be one hell of a hard program though lol quads way deep in the program

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Driving the Han Yan Fan Van
    Posts
    8,826
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by johndockley92 View Post
    ^^ Does this not contradict what Sylvia just said? Now I'm confused.
    In skatak's example, the skater repeated 4T and 3T. That's it for jumps you can repeat (only two may be repeated). So if he did two 3S, the second 3sal would be invalid. He'd have to do another type of jump instead. Make sense? (Otherwise you'd get even further off the ideal of attempting all jump takeoffs; a skater could do, in 8 jumping passes, two 3Ts, two 4Ts, two lutzes, two flips, etc.)
    BARK LESS. WAG MORE.

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Age
    52
    Posts
    10,237
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    10899
    Another way to think of it:

    You're allowed to repeat a maximum of two different jumps that have 3 or more revolutions.

    Triple and quad jumps from the same takeoff are considered different jumps.

    You're still limited to two repeats. And whichever jump you repeat can only be performed two times (instead of one). It is never allowed to do the same triple or quad jump more than twice.

  11. #11
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    587
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by johndockley92 View Post
    ^^ Does this not contradict what Sylvia just said? Now I'm confused.
    No, to add on to the above post... In other words, a triple jump and a quad jump of the same type are NOT the same jump so in the same program, you can do a 4T, 4T+3Lo, and 3T (for example). Here, the 3T counts even though it is the 3rd toeloop jump in the program, but it is different from the quad because it is a triple.

    The repeated jumps is another issue... as mentioned above, you can only repeat a maximum of 2 jumps triple OR quad. So if someone did two 4Ts and two 4Ss, that's it, you can not repeat any more triple or quad jumps.

  12. #12
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    430
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I have a different question regarding repeating jumps. I know of the two triples repeated, one should be in combination and the other should be solo. However, I see a lot of skaters miss an earlier combination and tack on another -2T to a planned solo jump (i.e. a 3S) and still do a planned 3S-2T later. How come one of them doesn't garner the +SEQ? I know that if they did two solo 3S, the second one would be penalized.

  13. #13

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Age
    52
    Posts
    10,237
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    10899
    There's no penalty for or rule against doing the repeated jump in combination both times.

    one should be in combination and the other should be solo
    This is not correct. The requirement is that a repeated jump must be in combination or sequence at least one of the times it's executed.

  14. #14
    I <3 Kozuka
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Vancouver/Seattle
    Posts
    18,208
    vCash
    730
    Rep Power
    19005
    Summary for singles FS:

    • Only two three-or-more revolution jumps may be repeated
    • For each repeated three-or-more revolution jump, at least one must be in combination/sequence; if both are performed solo, the second is treated as a +SEQ and the base value is reduced by to 80%
    • Triple and quad versions of the same jump type are not considered the same jump for counting repeats


    Independent from the Zayak rule, currently the number of times a 2A can be repeated is two, but both can be solo jumps. So it is possible to have two repeated triple/quads and two 2A's.
    Last edited by kwanfan1818; 10-29-2012 at 06:42 PM.
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

  15. #15

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    2,022
    vCash
    5550
    Rep Power
    7820
    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    Summary for singles FS:

    • Only two three-or-more revolution jumps may be repeated
    • For each repeated three-or-more revolution jump, at least one must be in combination/sequence; if both are performed solo, the second is treated as a +SEQ and the value is reduced by 80%
    • Triple and quad versions of the same jump type are not considered the same jump for counting repeats


    Independent from the Zayak rule, currently the number of times a 2A can be repeated is two, but both can be solo jumps. So it is possible to have two repeated triple/quads and two 2A's.
    Good summary, but just to clarify the second instance of a particular 3-or-more-revolution jump has its value multiplied by 0.8 (or 80%), not reduced by 80% (which would be equivalent to multiplying by 20%). This multiplier is applied to the base value (which you may know but some may not), and GOE is applied as usual.

  16. #16
    I <3 Kozuka
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Vancouver/Seattle
    Posts
    18,208
    vCash
    730
    Rep Power
    19005
    Thanks! I've made the corrections.

    ETA: Also, the base as reported in the protocols, includes the 10% bonus, if applicable.
    Last edited by kwanfan1818; 10-29-2012 at 07:22 PM.
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

  17. #17

    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    France
    Posts
    3,540
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    2946
    Quote Originally Posted by steve skater View Post
    This would not be allowed. Of all the triples and quads, only two can be repeated. In your example, the skater would get a star (*; invalid element) for the 3S-3T, as the 3T would be the third quad/triple repeated jump. (I wish this rule were not in place!) As Sylvia mentioned, quads and triples with the same name are not considered the same jump.
    So a skater could do, say:
    4S
    4S-3T
    4T
    4T-2T
    3S
    3A
    3Lz
    3Lo-2T-2Lo

    The 4S and 4T are repeated, so no other triple or quads can be repeated, but the skater can still do 3S (as it is a different animal than the 4S). If the 4S-3T had been 4S-2T, then a 3T could be performed in place of another triple with no penalty.
    that looked too easy, should've remembered the 'no more than two similar triple+ jumps repeated'. In my example the 3S of the last combo would be already invalid.

  18. #18
    Go Denmark!
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    1,596
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    2418
    Can you do your repeated jumps as 2 different combinations?

    say a
    4T + 3T
    4T + 3T + 2S

    2 identical combinations?
    4T + 3T
    4T + 3T

    and

    can you repeat 2 and lower revolution jumps as many times as you would like?

    say
    4T + 2T
    4T + 2T
    3T + 2T
    3S + 2T

    etc etc?

    this looks wrong to me...

  19. #19
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    430
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by maatTheViking View Post
    Can you do your repeated jumps as 2 different combinations?

    say a
    4T + 3T
    4T + 3T + 2S

    2 identical combinations?
    4T + 3T
    4T + 3T

    and

    can you repeat 2 and lower revolution jumps as many times as you would like?

    say
    4T + 2T
    4T + 2T
    3T + 2T
    3S + 2T

    etc etc?

    this looks wrong to me...
    Well, you can only have 3 combos but you can repeat 2T and 2Lo as much as you like.

  20. #20
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    171
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by maatTheViking View Post
    Can you do your repeated jumps as 2 different combinations?

    say a
    4T + 3T
    4T + 3T + 2S


    There would be nothing wrong with this- you can repeat a MAXIMUM of TWO jumps, as long as at least ONE of them is in combination/sequence. It is fine if they are both in combination.

    2 identical combinations?
    4T + 3T
    4T + 3T

    This is fine, see my above explanation.

    and

    can you repeat 2 and lower revolution jumps as many times as you would like?

    say
    4T + 2T
    4T + 2T
    3T + 2T
    3S + 2T

    etc etc?

    this looks wrong to me...
    This is NOT okay, as you can only do a total of THREE combinations/sequences, and only ONE of them may be a 3jump combo. Double jumps through the Lutz have no limit, however, you can only do a maximum of 2 double Axels.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •