ISU Communication No. 1767: Decisions of the ISU Council

[allezfred]

Link

- Tallinn, Estonia will host 2015 Junior Worlds

- 2013/2014 Junior Grand Prixs are as follows:

Riga, Lativa - 27 August to 1 September, 2013 (including pairs)
Mexico City, Mexico - 4-8 September, 2013
Kosice, Slovakia - 11-15 September, 2013 (including pairs)
Gdansk, Poland - 18-22 September, 2013
Minsk, Belarus - 25-29 September, 2013 (including pairs)
Ostrava, Czech Republic - 2-6 October, 2013 (including pairs)
Tallinn, Estonia - 9-13 October (including pairs)

Most significantly, the final minimum TES for championships will be set two weeks prior to the entry deadline.

[misskarne]

Most significantly, the final minimum TES for championships will be set two weeks prior to the entry deadline.

WHAT?!

So basically, ISU can change the goalposts anytime they want...

[Domshabfan]

We have 5 pairs event for JGP next year, this is really positive indeed.

[l'etoile]

WHAT?!

So basically, ISU can change the goalposts anytime they want...

Maybe they finally realized the original TES standard was ridiculous and decided to see how skaters do, and then set the required score according to estimated number of contestants(say 20-24 skaters for Worlds and 25-30 skaters for 4cc/Euros?). If this is the case, I rather think it's a good thing.

[allezfred]

Maybe they finally realized the original TES standard was ridiculous and decided to see how skaters do, and then set the required score according to estimated number of contestants(say 20-24 skaters for Worlds and 25-30 skaters for 4cc/Euros?). If this is the case, I rather think it's a good thing.

Good if they lower it. Bad if they raise it. A skater who previously had thought they were qualified could find themselves on the wrong side of the score with only two weeks to somehow get an entry to an ISU level competition to get the new required score.

And even if they lower it, the skaters who thought they weren't going to the championships will suddenly find themselves qualified and scrambling to sort out transport, etc.

[l'etoile]

Good if they lower it. Bad if they raise it. A skater who previously had thought they were qualified could find themselves on the wrong side of the score with only two weeks to somehow get an entry to an ISU level competition to get the new required score.

And even if they lower it, the skaters who thought they weren't going to the championships will suddenly find themselves qualified and scrambling to sort out transport, etc.

You're right. I didn't think that through. Two weeks are awfully short time for skaters to prepare for anything. It'll be really interesting to see how ISU is gonna play this thing.

[misskarne]

Good if they lower it. Bad if they raise it. A skater who previously had thought they were qualified could find themselves on the wrong side of the score with only two weeks to somehow get an entry to an ISU level competition to get the new required score.

And even if they lower it, the skaters who thought they weren't going to the championships will suddenly find themselves qualified and scrambling to sort out transport, etc.

Which was pretty much exactly my train of thought.

This is really dumb.

[sandra_persch]

You're right. I didn't think that through. Two weeks are awfully short time for skaters to prepare for anything. It'll be really interesting to see how ISU is gonna play this thing.

But isn't the entry deadline usually a month before the ISU Championships?

6 weeks is still too short a notice period but hopefully the TES will only be lowered downwards.

[shan]

I wonder if it's difficult to find places that are willing to host Jr Grand Prix events.

[kirkbiggestfan]

It really looks like the Central or Eastern European Skating Tour...full of charming ice rinks from the 60s.

[Ziggy]

And even if they lower it, the skaters who thought they weren't going to the championships will suddenly find themselves qualified and scrambling to sort out transport, etc.

And air fares are going to be significantly higher at that point. :/

[Lanna]

Most significantly, the final minimum TES for championships will be set two weeks prior to the entry deadline.

I wonder if there's a competition within the ISU to create the most obnoxious new rule.

[allezfred]

Yes, the ISU have certainly outdone themselves with this one. No-one will be able to book transport or accommodation with full confidence until the final TES are confirmed.

Judging by how generous the TES scoring seems to have been for the first few competitions this season, I have a funny feeling that it's more likely the bar will be raised rather than lowered.

[Ziggy]

What they will do two weeks prior to the entry deadline is most likely set the TES so you end up with EXACTLY as many skaters eligible to enter the championship as there are places in the SP. Or maybe a few more so you have possible replacements.

This will make the cost of booking flights much more expensive hurting both the national federations (who could otherwise book the flight straight after Nationals in December) and the skaters who have to pay their own way (as if they weren't spending enough already).

It will save the cost for the championship organiser but massively increase the financial burden for everybody else.

F*****g idiots.

[Susan M]

WHAT?!

So basically, ISU can change the goalposts anytime they want...

The rule always provided for adjusting the number up or down to achieve the desired number of entrants. All this does is set the date for that to happen. The problem remains, though, that the ISU has set the various deadlines to leave considerable chaos in the process.

The deadline for nominations to Worlds is 3 weeks before the event, (what's that - Feb 17?). Countries can nominate skaters who have yet to earn a qual score. Presumably, all the nominated skaters are still training for Worlds in case they get in. I assume somebody somewhere must be keeping spreadsheets of each skater's best TES scores, so skaters would already have a pretty good idea where they stand.

The real stupidity comes in with the ISU deadline for posting a qual score - the start of the event. It looks like the last international where skaters can improve their score would be Challenge Cup (Feb 21-24), so all those numbers would be in by Feb 24, the same day the ISU is supposed to announce the cut-off score for qualifying.

That gives the ISU part of one day to look at the scores of nominated skaters and figure out where to draw the line for a max field (or less if they are feeling masochistic). Personally, I will be surprised if the ISU opens themselves up to the barrage of complaints and criticism that would ensue if they set the bar to yield a smaller field. (Being the ISU, though, I guess we do have to leave open the possibility that they are setting up a public outcry to get rid of this system so they can install an even worse one.)

I doubt they will go over the SP field size, counting on a few skaters to drop out. If they miscalculate, that would necessitate a whole extra flight to accommodate one or two skaters too many. IMO not likely to happen.

One other random thought - since the qualifying marks are set separately for SP and FS (rather than one total score), that leaves room for a certain amount of shenanigans within the ISU when determining the final cut-offs. Say too few skaters achieved the original qual scores, so they are moving the lines down. How do they decide which one to move down and by how much? It seems likely to me that moving the SP down a little more and the FS a little less, might let in skaters A and B, while moving the SP a little less and the FS a little more would let in Skaters C & D. How do they do this fairly? Take 1 point off one then the other until they hit the desired number? It will be really interesting to see which countries' skaters are the ones benefiting/hurt by where they decide to move the lines.

[ChelleC]

I wonder if there's a competition within the ISU to create the most obnoxious new rule.

It does seem that way, doesn't it? Seems each new rule is more boneheaded than the last.

[SamuraiK]

So for worlds thats basically after 4CC, they will count down until the 30th entry and that's where they will set the cut for sure.

[Susan M]

So for worlds thats basically after 4CC, they will count down until the 30th entry and that's where they will set the cut for sure.

It's not as simple as counting down to 30 (or whatever is the desired field size for that discipline) because there is not one list of scores. For each discipline there would be two lists -one list of the skaters ranked by best SP TES number and a second list where they are ranked by their best FS TES. To qualify a skater/team must achieve the prescribed qualifying TES score for both the SP and the FS. In theory, some skaters could meet one standard but not the other. That is where it can get complicated in deciding which qualifying standards to move down and how much. Those choices could affect who gets in and who doesn't.

[zebobes]

It's not as simple as counting down to 30 (or whatever is the desired field size for that discipline) because there is not one list of scores. For each discipline there would be two lists -one list of the skaters ranked by best SP TES number and a second list where they are ranked by their best FS TES.

Not to mention you have to keep track of countries... so that two people who qualify for a country that only has one spot, then you can skip past that person. I'm sure a computer program could do it easily, but for a person that's trying to figure out on their own if they can make the world championships, it's gotta be pretty confusing.

[RunnersHigh]

FULL TEXT

if it became evident that the number of entries into the ISU Figure Skating Championships 2013 based on the Minimum Total Technical Scores listed in Communication 1742 would be significantly higher or lower than expected, the ISU Council reserves the right to subsequently slightly re-adjust the Minimum Total Technical Scores in order to achieve entry numbers in line with the objectives mentioned in Communication 1742. The ISU Council decided that for each

Interesting and confusing!