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  1. #1

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    2012-13 ISU Grand Prix Alternate Selection (continued)

    Since the original thread is now closed, I figured some people would want to continue grumbling about discussing this topic...

    ETA:
    Updating my post #941 from the previous GP thread:

    Ladies on last season's ISU Season Best scores list with 1 GP assignment as of today (Oct. 15): http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/...12/sbtslto.htm
    [8 Czisny USA (NHK) - requested only 1 due to her injury/surgery]
    11 Nagasu USA (Cup of China)
    38 Flatt USA (Skate America)
    41 Osmond CAN (Skate Canada)
    44 Glebova EST (TEB, selected as alternate)
    46 McCorkell GBR (TEB, selected as alternate)

    Have received a 1st or 2nd GP assignment as an alternate (not host pick):
    14 Korpi FIN (China)
    15 Biryukova RUS (China)
    19 Shelepen RUS (Canada, originally their host pick)
    30 Gao USA (TEB)
    35 Lacoste CAN (China)
    37 J. Helgesson SWE (TEB, originally their host pick)
    44 Glebova EST (TEB)
    46 McCorkell GBR (TEB)

    China replaced Kexin Zhang at Cup of China with host pick Ying CHANG.
    Last edited by Sylvia; 10-15-2012 at 10:06 PM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Since the original thread is now closed, I figured some people would want to continue grumbling about discussing this topic...


    From the previous thread:
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman View Post
    Mirai's world standing is higher than both Wagner's and Caroline Zhang's, yet they both got two assignments. I guess that doesn't break any of the gp rules, but it is still perplexing.
    Of course it doesn't break any rules; Wagner, by virtue of her 4th place showing at Worlds, is a seeded skater - she has to get two assignments. As for Zhang, I would have been very surprised if an ISU Championship medalist did not get two events.

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    Coco mentioned travel costs in the last thread. The closer to the event, the more expensive the plane tickets are.

    French Fed chose McCorkell (who was at the bottom of the current alternate list ) who trains in UK. The other four alternates all train in North America. Jenna was the cheapest to transport by far.

    And of course she's arguably the weakest skater out of the five so she can help ensure the French girls don't finish last.

    The French fed did a sensible thing and saved themselves a lot of money.

    ISU needs to alter the rules so they force the feds so pick the top skater from the alternate list. :/

    The idea of a travel expenses fund is a good one as well. All organisers would pool money in so that expenses would be shared evenly.

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    Osmond should have gotten it over McCorkell but I guess the same problems comes with picking Osmond as picking Mirai. She will place ahead of the French skaters.

    I am not sure why people even mention cost of travel when Christina Gao was selected. The French are picking the weakest skaters on the list. And if anyone else withdraws closer to the event I doubt they will even fill the spot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrett View Post
    I am not sure why people even mention cost of travel when Christina Gao was selected. The French are picking the weakest skaters on the list. And if anyone else withdraws closer to the event I doubt they will even fill the spot.
    When she was selected, I believe that no skaters who train in Europe were on the alternate list.

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    The selections were, leading up to Gao:

    2 August: Kostner removed from CoC and TEB.

    8 August: Top 5 alternates, not including Czisny: Nagasu (11), Korpi (14), Biryukova (15), Korobeynikova (17), Shelepen (19). There were already three Russian Ladies at TEB, and once China picked Korpi, the only one left of the original top five who could attend TEB was Nagasu, and that moved Zijun Li (24) into the top five. Li was originally listed for TEB, which proved to be an error of sorts, because on

    9 August, Li was removed from TEB. This left Nagasu (11), Biryukova (15), Korobeynikova (17), Shelepen (19), and Li (24) as the top group of five, with Li slotting into the top group in place of Korpi. (For the record, I don't have a problem with this, as all six skaters were in the Top 24 PB, and I don't think they necessarily should have to choose in exact order. My issue is where skaters outside the Top 24 are chosen before Top 24 skaters, when there is a Top 24 skater who could take the spot.)

    10 August, Gao (30) was chosen by France without being in the top five alternates. Biryukova, Korobeynikova, and Shelepen couldn't go, because of three Russian Ladies at TEB, and for Li, it would be back-to-back and a trip from Paris to Japan. If there was a set group of five, only Nagasu was left.

    Does that mean there was a temporary group of five for TEB, with Gao, Lacoste, and J. Helgessen moving in with Nagasu and Li? If that's the case, then J. Helgessen, who eventually replaced Silete for TEB on 19 September, trains in Europe. If they decided that they couldn't force France to take the only skater left in the top five, did they add one (Gao), so that France had any choice? If so, then there was not an eligible skater who trained in Europe.
    Last edited by kwanfan1818; 10-16-2012 at 11:03 AM.
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    This is messed up. The French are definitely playing some type of game because I cannot see why they would pass someone up 3 times now for the same event.

    Do they really think their ladies skaters are that great? Because I don't think they are... (And neither does anyone else around here). The only ladies skaters they produced who were halfway decent were Surya and Laetitia and even then Surya had major issues and Laetitia never medalled at a World Championship and was once called the human zamboni.

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    Silete was 1.03 points away from a tenth place finish and a second spot for France at Worlds next year. When a country is vying for an extra spot, every last world ranking point helps in setting up the starting order for championships. That start order could influence whether their skater ended up in 10th or 12th, and this year, Olympic spots are on the line.

    Unless USFS is sure that Czisny won't be ready and everyone is agreeing to save that spot for Nagasu, what the French Fed is doing is the best case scenario for the French Fed. As long as the ISU rules state or could be interpreted as meaning they can do this, why would they choose Nagasu?
    Last edited by kwanfan1818; 10-16-2012 at 01:47 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by smarts1 View Post
    The only ladies skaters they produced who were halfway decent were Surya and Laetitia and even then Surya had major issues and Laetitia never medalled at a World Championship and was once called the human zamboni.
    Off topic, but Vanessa Gusmeroli did medal at worlds.

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    ^ Oh yeah, I forgot about her. Besides, she was pretty inconsistent, placing 16th the following year anyway.

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    Chaffik Besseghier just posted on his Facebook account that he is going to TEB. The french fed probably realized he was the right choise after he beat Ponsart by a lot at French Masters.

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    Congratulations to Besseghier!
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

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    Congrats to Chafik! But why did Ponsart WD? Because I think I read something about him having some problems, I hope he's okay

    Quote Originally Posted by smarts1 View Post
    This is messed up. The French are definitely playing some type of game because I cannot see why they would pass someone up 3 times now for the same event.

    Do they really think their ladies skaters are that great? Because I don't think they are... (And neither does anyone else around here). The only ladies skaters they produced who were halfway decent were Surya and Laetitia and even then Surya had major issues and Laetitia never medalled at a World Championship and was once called the human zamboni.
    I still don't understand why there's so much criticism of the FFSG for not picking Nagasu, and considerably less of her own federation that chose not to have her at Skate America. Unless the rules compel a federation to invite specific skaters - and as usual, the ISU document is too confusing for that - the FFSG does not owe Mirai Nagasu a TEB invite.

    Speaking of the French ladies, Silete showed a lot of promise last year - so unfortunate that she suffered such a serious injury in the off-season. I hope she can make a successful comeback.
    Last edited by Zemgirl; 10-16-2012 at 07:24 AM.

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    I would make a guess that French Fed swapped Ponsart for Besseghier based on French Masters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    Speaking of the French ladies, Silete showed a lot of promise last year - so unfortunate that she suffered such a serious injury in the off-season. I hope she can make a successful comeback.
    ITA! Not too long ago french ladies could not even make the cut after the SP at Europeans!!
    Now we have 2 spots at Euros and almost got a second one at Worlds. No, France has never been a "ladies country", we don't produce baby ballerinas but I think that this generation of skaters has the potential to have decent results. I even wish the french fed would have kept that 3rd host pick for Lénaëlle Gilleron-Gorry.

    Congratulation to Chaffik Besseghier! He deserves that spot.
    AFAIK Ponsart injuried himself before the LP at French Masters, I guess he might not be able to recover before TEB.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Libertango View Post
    I even wish the french fed would have kept that 3rd host pick for Lénaëlle Gilleron-Gorry.
    This came up earlier and someone pointed out that since Lénaëlle Gilleron-Gorry competed in the JGP this season, she is ineligible for a senior GP.

    Congratulation to Chaffik Besseghier! He deserves that spot.
    AFAIK Ponsart injuried himself before the LP at French Masters, I guess he might not be able to recover before TEB.
    The strange thing is that Ponsart is on the list of French skaters assigned to the Coupe de Nice that was published today. So I've no idea what's going on with the assignments.

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    Agreed that the FFSG does not owe Nagasu an invite. They played within the rules.
    Agreed that the USFSA was welcome to make tactical picks as well. They played within the rules.

    The rules need to be changed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    The strange thing is that Ponsart is on the list of French skaters assigned to the Coupe de Nice that was published today. So I've no idea what's going on with the assignments.
    Ponsart has withdrawn from all competitions until the start of December with a torn ligament in his ankle; he's hoping to be back for French Nationals at the earliest.

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    I think the rules need to be changed so that Feds need to pick someone in the original top 5 list. Once everyone in the original top 5 is picked, then they can go on to pick the skaters from 5-10. This business of moving skaters into the top 5 and not picking the number 1 or 2 skater on the alternates list is really what is messed up.

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    Reposting from German skating thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Eislauffan View Post
    Mari Vartmann reports on Facebook that she broke her partner's (Aaron van Cleave) cheekbone while they practiced a triple twist. Therefore they will be unable to compete at Coupe de Nice and Cup of Russia, but hope to be back for NHK Trophy.
    Ouch, that is really unfortunate.

    I guess their CoR spot will go to Della Monica/Guarise?

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