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  1. #41
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    Yes, she put it out there. That's the point. The adults have to make sure the kids understand all the ramifications of such behaviour. Starting when they get their first cellphone isn't early enough. Do a search on "digital citizenship" and "online safety" and you'll find several sites that help parents and teachers talk to kids of all ages about how to be safe digitally. It is true that you can't do anything about people who take pictures of you, but you can take control of as much as possible, including setting up notifications of when you're tagged in photos or comments or anything on Facebook. Of course, it takes time to sift through things and make the appropriate changes, but it's necessary. And it's especially necessary if you're a parent whose child uses the Internet.
    Haunting the Princess of Pink since 20/07/11...

  2. #42

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    It bugs me that people blame the parents. Does any parent watch every single move/ decision their child makes every minute of every day? Does every single mistake their child makes get called out? I got caught doing some stupid things and got disciplined but my parents found out maybe 10% of the things I actually did.

    I didn't bully anyone (I was the one bullied) but I was naive and made plenty of stupid decisions. I was lucky that nothing extremely awful happened to me but I could have just as easily have been a statistic too. I lived through the Kristen French/ Leslie Mahaffy murders (close to the area they were killed) but I stilled wondered the street at 2 am. Looking back, I was such an idiot.

    Kids screw up, they make mistakes. The predator with the photo and the kids who tormented Amanda Todd contributed to her death.

    Pointing fingers will not change bullying unless all levels work together to stop bullycide. Victims, victims parents/ friends, bullying bystanders, bullies, schools, bullies parents etc and law changes will help but it all starts with 1 person calling out bullshit when they see it.

    I hope laws change. I hope the torturers get caught and brought to justice. I hope all the kids who have to deal with this don't feel the desperation that kids like Amanda felt so they ultimately kill themselves.
    ~I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I react to it.~ (Charles R. Swindoll)

  3. #43

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    ^^^
    This!

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by UGG View Post
    I keep thinking of my son (who is 19 months). I think he is so perfect and wonderful. I am sure all of these parents of bullied kids think like I do-their kids are amazing. maybe that is why they cannot see what is happening? I dont get it...
    The parents of the bullies too. They can't believe their kids are doing anything that any other kid would do even though plenty of kids don't bully because their kids are good kids!!
    "Cupcakes are bullshit. And everyone knows it. A cupcake is just a muffin with clown puke topping." -Charlie Brooker

  5. #45
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    Yes she put it out there. However, does that excuse or even explain the way she's been tormented by her mistake (as a 12 year-old)? Geez, I wish people would realize that it's not the victim that needs to learn self-control (because I'm sure she learned her lesson when that picture just wouldn't go away) but those who take so much glee in ostracizing the poor kid and do their damn best to make sure she'll never live down her mistake to the point where she no longer wants to live.

    I mean short of making sure NOBODY makes a mistake ever in their lives, not sure what else can be done with some people's thinking.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    The parents of the bullies too. They can't believe their kids are doing anything that any other kid would do even though plenty of kids don't bully because their kids are good kids!!
    This is who I want to hear from....parents of bullies. There are a lot of conflicting ideas about what kind of upbringing/character development results in bullying behavior. The big theory used to be low self-esteem + being abused at home = bully; the student acts out at school because that's what he/she learned at home and it makes him/her feel better. Nowadays that theory seems to be out of fashion; testing on bullies indicates they actually have overly high self-esteem and are manipulative (able to manipulate parents and teachers into looking the other way). It seems sort of like sociopathy-lite.

    So....given how many people on this board have been bullied and how prevalent bullying is.....someone here has probably raised a bully (or perhaps was raised as a bully or with a bullying sibling). How? Was it over-discipline, or lack of discipline? Low self-esteem, or high?

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    I said that pictures taken *surreptitiously* and without knowledge of the subject are not the issue. (I didn't say it, but I suspect the reason is that they aren't salacious enough.)
    I recall an incident in Canada a couple years ago where some teens threw a party with a parent present, raped one of the girls after she was intoxicated, videotaped it, then distributed it around the school to mock the victim.

    There are entire websites devoted to uploading surreptitious photos/videos of people either undressed or engaged in sexual activity. Secret cameras get placed in dressing rooms or bathrooms. There's an entire body of law designed to address this phenomenon, so I don't know why anyone would say this doesn't happen .

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by agalisgv View Post
    I recall an incident in Canada a couple years ago where some teens threw a party with a parent present, raped one of the girls after she was intoxicated, videotaped it, then distributed it around the school to mock the victim.
    Man's inhumanity to man continues to astound. I mean....that's insult added to injury with a huge dollop of stupidity on top (filming yourself committing a felony, and distributing it?). Please tell me somebody went to jail.

    The longer I live, the more I hate people.

  9. #49
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    I don't know what the outcome of that case was--perhaps some of the Canadian posters know. I do remember that the mom served the alcohol, so there were potential charges against her. Iirc, many were blaming the girl for getting drunk in the first place, so she should have anticipated having a train pulled on her.

  10. #50
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    From one (past)bully:

    I had my first blood drawing fight on the bus when in 7th or 8th grade one girl was tormenting a girl who could not stick up for herself. When I entered verbally, she pushed me. I smacked her and her giant hoop earring got caught on my hand and ripped out and we went to blows until I was pulled off of her. I told the principal I would have that fight all over again and I had no regrets.

    Before this, in 6th grade I was in the A crowd and one girl - Jenny - was on the outs. So one day she was a bff in my circle and the next, she was bullied badly. Yes, I joined in. It was kind of a heady experience. Going from teacher's pet to mean girl was a very powerful feeling.

    Our teacher heard of an ambush and drove all the alleys looking for us. She found us circling Jenny - I don't think it would have come to blows but we were vicious verbally. The teacher (a tiny woman) confronted us and laid into us and I was so ashamed. At that point I didn't want to be part of the A group and changed my schedule. I dropped study hall and became a student mentor in the disabled class for grades 1,2 and 3. I became friends with different people.

    I guess that shame and guilt worked differently in me and I after being a bully I moved to stepping in front of victims. I was part of a social organization that promoted change during high school, got to be a peer player (instead of taking regular PE, I took PE with differently-abled kids).

    I STILL feel guilty for participating in bullying Jenny. But, I've tried to be a better person for it.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGirlCanSkate View Post
    From one (past)bully:

    I had my first blood drawing fight on the bus when in 7th or 8th grade one girl was tormenting a girl who could not stick up for herself. When I entered verbally, she pushed me. I smacked her and her giant hoop earring got caught on my hand and ripped out and we went to blows until I was pulled off of her. I told the principal I would have that fight all over again and I had no regrets.

    Before this, in 6th grade I was in the A crowd and one girl - Jenny - was on the outs. So one day she was a bff in my circle and the next, she was bullied badly. Yes, I joined in. It was kind of a heady experience. Going from teacher's pet to mean girl was a very powerful feeling.

    Our teacher heard of an ambush and drove all the alleys looking for us. She found us circling Jenny - I don't think it would have come to blows but we were vicious verbally. The teacher (a tiny woman) confronted us and laid into us and I was so ashamed. At that point I didn't want to be part of the A group and changed my schedule. I dropped study hall and became a student mentor in the disabled class for grades 1,2 and 3. I became friends with different people.

    I guess that shame and guilt worked differently in me and I after being a bully I moved to stepping in front of victims. I was part of a social organization that promoted change during high school, got to be a peer player (instead of taking regular PE, I took PE with differently-abled kids).

    I STILL feel guilty for participating in bullying Jenny. But, I've tried to be a better person for it.
    Good on you for owning up and good on that teacher. We need so much more of this.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by agalisgv View Post
    There are entire websites devoted to uploading surreptitious photos/videos of people either undressed or engaged in sexual activity. Secret cameras get placed in dressing rooms or bathrooms. There's an entire body of law designed to address this phenomenon, so I don't know why anyone would say this doesn't happen .
    With cameras being so small nowadays, how do we protect ourselves from something like that?

  13. #53
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    You can't

  14. #54
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  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by susan6 View Post
    This is who I want to hear from....parents of bullies. There are a lot of conflicting ideas about what kind of upbringing/character development results in bullying behavior. The big theory used to be low self-esteem + being abused at home = bully; the student acts out at school because that's what he/she learned at home and it makes him/her feel better. Nowadays that theory seems to be out of fashion; testing on bullies indicates they actually have overly high self-esteem and are manipulative (able to manipulate parents and teachers into looking the other way). It seems sort of like sociopathy-lite.

    So....given how many people on this board have been bullied and how prevalent bullying is.....someone here has probably raised a bully (or perhaps was raised as a bully or with a bullying sibling). How? Was it over-discipline, or lack of discipline? Low self-esteem, or high?
    Susan, you raise some really good questions. So much of what happens is outside parental influence.

    Today I read an article by a teacher who was bullied as a youngster. She calls her students on it when she sees it and then tells them her own story of what happened and how she felt. What really struck her about their response was that they were shocked at being labelled bullies! Not by what happened but being labelled! They did not see themselves doing anything wrong; they tried to justify it saying the victim deserved it and they had the right to enforce punishment! Now there's an "AHA" moment! I'm grateful that that school has this teacher. If I had a child, I'd want that teacher involved in my kids life.

    One of the most useful organizations I've heard of is the From Me To We movement started by the Kielburgers(sp). It gets young people to start thinking about others and taking action for the collective good. We need more of that!

    Aragorn Elessar, thanks for starting this discussion. It is so important.

  16. #56
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    I believe a lot of it has to do with parenting. Like the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

    One of my sons classmates is a bully. He is very short and not very smart, so it seems like his way of diverting attention. He has been suspended and even had a restraining order against him from another student. And you know what the parents do............ laugh, blame the principal, say "our son would never do that", even let the kid skip school and get mad at the principal when they call home to find out where he is. I would almost think the parents are proud of it. The Dad seems like he would have been a bully in school. He brags about playing soccer and the only thing he does is go after guys' ankles to take them out of the game.

    I had a long talk with my son about bullying (as this boy has done a few minor things to my son). I told him to stand up for other kids when this boy is being bad, but he is hesitant to do so out of fear of retaliation on him. My son is on the smaller side and looks much younger than his age.

    The school system is slightly to blame as well. This kid hardly ever does homework, just wrote his name on his final exam, yet bragged about passing all his classes. My son works hard to make decent grades and this only goes to show him that you don't really need to do anything and you can still pass (his thoughts). I think the teachers just want these kids to move on and not have to deal with them.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castlerock View Post
    I had a long talk with my son about bullying (as this boy has done a few minor things to my son). I told him to stand up for other kids when this boy is being bad, but he is hesitant to do so out of fear of retaliation on him. My son is on the smaller side and looks much younger than his age.
    So there is only one bully tormenting many? Is there a way to get the children he had targeted to band together and stand up against him?

  18. #58

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    My oldest son was telling us at dinner that one of his classmates targets him and tries to spit at him. He has been caught on 3-4 occasions by a teacher and about another dozen times by fellow students. I have to go to physio tomorrow which happens to right by the school to confront the principal about this.

    Spitting on someone is absolutely disgusting and I am not cool with this.
    ~I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I react to it.~ (Charles R. Swindoll)

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castlerock View Post

    This kid hardly ever does homework, just wrote his name on his final exam, yet bragged about passing all his classes. My son works hard to make decent grades and this only goes to show him that you don't really need to do anything and you can still pass (his thoughts). I think the teachers just want these kids to move on and not have to deal with them.
    How do you know the kid is really passing? Have you seen his grades and transcripts? If this is high school, the kid can appear to move on even though he has not actually passed previous coursework and in the end very well may not graduate.

    We had a kid once upon a time in my teaching career that bragged to his classmates about doing nothing and passing, too. But he wasn't passing. He wasn't retaking classes he hadn't passed because the parents refused to have them on his schedule lest he be embarrassed. He was registered for some summer school and some online coursework to make things up and still did not pass.

    When graduation time came around, his classmates were shocked and screaming injustice when they learned he wasn't graduating (he was not a bully--he was quite well liked by a segment of the small class). One girl cried to me that it was so awful because "no one ever told him he was behind in credits". Of course, he had been told. His parents had been told. There had been meetings with teachers, admins, guidance counselor. Nothing truly got their attention.

  20. #60

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    Just out of curiosity, do you think he lied to the girl that no one had told him he was behind? He truly believed no one had told him because it really didn't register with him? He never said anything one way or the other to the girl about being informed and she just assumed?

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