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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by falling_dance View Post
    Nah. This screen would've come up before trevor's first post appeared. (Note, as James Rolfe did in his beloved (by nerds under 35) review of Nightmare on Elm Street for the NES, that the trademark marco appears next to Freddy's name.)

    Othello, I will avenge you--and rid this castle of the vampire scourge that has taken this fair city. I shall hunt each and every one down in this town and drive a wooden stake through their heart. All this for my friend, Othello. -- Sam Brown as Hamlet in "Abe Lincoln" on The Whitest Kids U'Know (Season 1, Ep. 1)
    ^^

    Unwittingly, falling_dance, your "Othello" quote (a kind of pop culture neologasmic adaptation) makes me think of Chan as Othello, and Sam Brown's Hamlet as jettasian or god forbid, trevor, leading the charge against Chan critics, Nice booers, and sundry other innocent bystanders...


    Yes, I think Chan will be fine, even without a full-time technical coach. If he thinks he needs to bring one on board before the end of the season, no problema. It's true that coaches provide athletes with invaluable support in many ways, especially during training sessions, but in the long run, it's up to the competitor to persevere alone on the field of battle.

    Maybe Frank Carroll could have provided Kwan with a few soothing words or sharp commands before she went out to skate her fp at 2002 Olympics, but in the long run she was still the one who ultimately needed to calm her nerves and steady herself.

  2. #162

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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    ^^

    Unwittingly, falling_dance, your "Othello" quote (a kind of pop culture neologasmic adaptation) makes me think of Chan as Othello, and Sam Brown's Hamlet as jettasian or god forbid, trevor, leading the charge against Chan critics, Nice booers, and sundry other innocent bystanders...
    Well, at least neither man is John Wilkes Booth in your scenario.
    I can call the moon a pear, but it doesn't make it so. -- kwanfan1818

  3. #163
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    trevor, does this mean Patrick Chan likes tacos for sure?

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proustable View Post
    Okay, but we are clear - Patrick tanked at this year's Japan Open. He didn't win. Right? I mean, he came sixth out of six skaters. We aren't calling that a victory, are we?

    Well of course. I never said he won, but this seems to be just another early season Chan performance. Nothing to worry about, but I hope that beyond his insane skills (they were clearly obvious five years ago, and I applauded them, so I'm not a hater). I just don't understand why placing last when he clearly was off, whether it was his typical performance, jet lag, emotional issues, whatever is a big deal. He'll clean up enough to fall only a couple of times and win his GPs.

    And for people to call me an idiot is uncalled for. I am not. I am most assuredly not. Keep it klassy, kc.
    I will not be ignored! -Me

  5. #165
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    I remember when great skaters didn't fall. Certainly not like Chan does.

  6. #166

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    I remember when great skaters didn't fall. Certainly not like Chan does.
    Which great skaters do you refer to? And what exactly is your point in making this statement?

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    I remember when great skaters didn't fall. Certainly not like Chan does.
    I also miss the days when falls did not occur. When were falls introduced into skating again? Was it the '06-'07 season, or '08-'09??
    It's official. I am madly in love with Meryl Davis.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    I also miss the days when falls did not occur. When were falls introduced into skating again? Was it the '06-'07 season, or '08-'09??
    Peter I believe quite correctly you are on the spot. The World champions in 1906/07 did not fall. You are quite the history maven. Kudos.
    I will not be ignored! -Me

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    I also miss the days when falls did not occur. When were falls introduced into skating again? Was it the '06-'07 season, or '08-'09??
    Yeah, it must of been '07. Certainly, no great champion has ever fallen before then. For example, the 1992 Olympics in the Ladies competition, did anyone even two foot a jump?

  10. #170

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    I also miss the days when falls did not occur. When were falls introduced into skating again? Was it the '06-'07 season, or '08-'09??
    I first read this to mean 1906/7/8/9 and found that

  11. #171
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    Can you remember Plushenko or Yags falling 3 or 4 times in competition in as many events as Chan does? NO. For someone with his skills he should not be falling as much as he does.
    Last edited by Jammers; 10-12-2012 at 05:46 PM.

  12. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Can you remember Plushenko or Yags falling 3 or 4 times in competition in as many events as Chan does? NO. For someone with his skills he should not be falling as much as he does.
    No, I certainly can't. And they both had the same very difficult transitions into the jumps as Chan does.

  13. #173

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    Quote Originally Posted by VarBar View Post
    No, I certainly can't. And they both had the same very difficult transitions into the jumps as Chan does.
    If Chan has difficulty executing his elements because the rest of the program is too difficult, perhaps he should consider fewer/easier transitions as well. It's not as though the only options for a skater are either to have a program with non-stop transitions or to skate something completely empty and void of any meaningful choreography. I'd even argue that sometimes it's better to pay a bit less attention to the TR in order to better express the music.

  14. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    I remember when great skaters didn't fall. Certainly not like Chan does.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Can you remember Plushenko or Yags falling 3 or 4 times in competition in as many events as Chan does? NO. For someone with his skills he should not be falling as much as he does.
    I definitely agree that so much falling should be untenable. But Chan fans and apologists will cite his above average SS and CoP as the reason he has prevailed with falls. I say pish posh kibosh! Part of it is the SS, part of it is the skating politics, part of it is the wacky judging system, and part of it is once you are anointed by the judges, you are given lots of leeway to prove and re-prove their faith in you.

    It may ultimately be different for Chan this season in how the judges will view him if he continues to fall. However, once again, his tendency the last several seasons has been to make mistakes early and clean up his act by Canadian Nationals. Of course last season, he didn't skate cleanly at Worlds and still prevailed. That was poor judgment on the judges part. But of course, these days its pretty much a crap shoot, and the men's field in general is crazy deep. All the skaters can and should do is skate their absolute best and make it as difficult for the judges as they possibly can. The problem for the sport, IMO, has been the ISU not putting their foot down re the over-scoring of Chan early in the season (the last couple of seasons) when he faltered. I think the resulting fallout has been detrimental to the sport as well as unhelpful for Chan in the long run.
    Last edited by aftershocks; 10-12-2012 at 08:26 PM.

  15. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    If Chan has difficulty executing his elements because the rest of the program is too difficult, perhaps he should consider fewer/easier transitions as well. It's not as though the only options for a skater are either to have a program with non-stop transitions or to skate something completely empty and void of any meaningful choreography. I'd even argue that sometimes it's better to pay a bit less attention to the TR in order to better express the music.
    You could be right, Zemgirl. However, I would be disappointed if he chose to do fewer/easier transitions because even if you take the jumps away from Chan's programs, there's still a lot of interesting stuff left to see and admire. But I am well aware that perceptions differ as to what makes a figure skating program really great.

    aftershocks, somehow I knew you would react to my post. Love Chan or hate Chan, you just can't ignore him.

  16. #176

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    Personally, I would much rather see skaters attempting more difficult content and falling on occasion, especially early in the season when the programs are new, than watered down programs. These are athletic competitions after all, and it's far more exciting when the skaters are pushing themselves to the limit. Maybe playing it safe could lead to cleaner, albeit more boring programs (though the "cleaner" part is not guaranteed...), but the risk of attempting a complex, more difficult program is well worth it in exchange for those rare skates when the difficulty and execution manage to work together. If you want beautiful, clean skating on a regular basis, limit yourself to ice shows (though even there clean skates aren't guaranteed to occur... )

  17. #177

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    Quote Originally Posted by VarBar View Post
    You could be right, Zemgirl. However, I would be disappointed if he chose to do fewer/easier transitions because even if you take the jumps away from Chan's programs, there's still a lot of interesting stuff left to see and admire. But I am well aware that perceptions differ as to what makes a figure skating program really great.
    It wouldn't be unprecedented - he's certainly tinkered with some jump entrances over the years. Like I wrote, I'm not advocating that he skate empty programs, but there's plenty of interesting choreo that a skater can do even without packing a program with transitions. Also, I'd rather see a jump performed well than a difficult transition into a badly performed jump (same goes for other elements, but obviously this is more of an issue with jumps).

    Sometimes I feel like transitions are over-emphasized; there are situations where I'd rather see a skater just hold a position or an edge, or do something that might not be difficult but that would fit the music well. The skaters are so busy packing in the content and at times it feels like it's at the expense of the artistic aspects of the performance. Skating is a sport, but it is also an art, and I don't want to see one at the expense of the other.

  18. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Forrest View Post
    Peter I believe quite correctly you are on the spot. The World champions in 1906/07 did not fall. You are quite the history maven. Kudos.
    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    I first read this to mean 1906/7/8/9 and found that
    Wow. You people are OLD!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Can you remember Plushenko or Yags falling 3 or 4 times in competition in as many events as Chan does? NO. For someone with his skills he should not be falling as much as he does.
    I think I read one post here at FSU that Chan might have better artistry than Plushenko. I will search for that one post and if I find it, I will post a link to it.
    It's official. I am madly in love with Meryl Davis.

  19. #179

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    I'd even argue that sometimes it's better to pay a bit less attention to the TR in order to better express the music.
    Transitions can express the music too.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  20. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by VarBar View Post
    ...

    aftershocks, somehow I knew you would react to my post. Love Chan or hate Chan, you just can't ignore him.
    Heh, heh, actually I was responding to Jammers' posts, and hadn't even seen yours yet when I posted, VarBar.

    As far as iggin' PC, no way to do that when TPTB enjoy diggin' him so much, not to mention the scary adoration of jettasian, trevor and the entire Chan gang, plus the devotion and admiration of various and sundry more sane Chan fans and innocent bystanders. As well, how can anyone ig PC SS -- just too uber fab in and of themselves, eh?

    Chan's a good guy and he can skate (understatement). He's so undeserving of all this "CSI treatment." Maybe he can have a post skating career tho' in the horror movie genre ... after all the "scary" experiences his career in skating will have given him.
    Last edited by aftershocks; 10-12-2012 at 08:27 PM.

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