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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by spikydurian View Post
    It is obvious based on some posters' past posts (again and again), they will never be happy with whatever outcomes because they just want it THEIR WAY.
    If he falls and lose, his falls should be deducted more, if he falls and wins, his falls should be deducted more. Not that marks weren't deducted from his falls ... it's just the outcome weren't what they WANT.
    Not only that....many skaters FALL on jumps too, not just Chan. But it seems like every time Chan falls, they have to "highlight" it, there, there, he FALLS, he FALLS!!! SO HE MUST NOT WIN!!! I don't see other skaters' marks get CSI treatments like Chan's. It's just pathetic and desperation.

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    I think many people do not (or refuses to) understand that Chan is just a skater who happens to fit a lot of criteria for PCS and therefore receives high PCS when he skates reasonably well. He gets lower PCS when he makes mistakes (which he should), but overall the PCS is still justifiably quite high when he makes mistakes because his starting level is high.
    Exactly. One of the aims of the IJS is to separate the technical from the components and mark them independently. You have to give skaters credit for what they do really well, regardless of the mistakes that might happen on the elements. When you are judging it really is like having a switch in your head which goes "component, component, element, component component, element, etc etc etc". The only component mark you can reasonably ding for poor performance is the Peformance/Execution mark. And that would be because the skater lets the mistakes affect the performance eg posture, expression, energy. If the skater still skaters their socks off regardless of the mistakes, you still have to give them credit for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by jettasian View Post
    Your post just shows either you are just ignorant about skating or your hatred toward a skater that blind your judgement.
    Totally agree. If you are going to criticise a skater be constructive, not random. Because it is not the skater that people then focus on but yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by jettasian View Post
    Chan is known to have one of the best, if not the best, skating skill out there today. Oh he uses his music to skate, or else, his jumps or other movement would not hit the music mark. Yes, he has great transitions through out his programs, very difficult too. He has great control of his speed. Nobody said Chan is a skating God. But people know what a great figure skater he is.
    Totally agree.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by t.mann View Post
    somewhat underscored when compare with other skaters, not last year's result.


    [TSS] TES - PCS┃SS - TR - PE - CH - IN

    1 TAKAHASHI [172.06] 81.00 - 91.06┃9.11 - 8.71 - 9.21 - 9.25 - 9.25
    2 KOZUKA [165.08] 83.06 - 83.02┃8.54 - 8.18 - 8.32 - 8.29 - 8.18
    3 BUTTLE [160.86] 72.66 - 88.20┃8.71 - 8.64 - 8.86 - 8.89 - 9.00
    4 PLUSHENKO [156.21] 71.63 - 85.58┃8.75 - 7.96 - 8.68 - 8.54 - 8.86
    5 BREZINA [151.53] 71.45 - 80.08┃8.25 - 7.61 - 8.07 - 8.00 - 8.11
    6 CHAN [137.42] 57.00 - 84.42┃8.61 - 8.57 - 8.07 - 8.57 - 8.39
    I don't know how much impact Chan's falls had for the TES, but to think that his SS is 4th is just ridiculous! And I must laugh at Dai's predictable over the top arms and facial expressions got him 9s. Yeah, if you want to be "Artistic" you must bring the drama!

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by jettasian View Post
    I don't know how much impact Chan's falls had for the TES, but to think that his SS is 4th is just ridiculous! And I must laugh at Dai's predictable over the top arms and facial expressions got him 9s. Yeah, if you want to be "Artistic" you must bring the drama!
    Yeah but he didn't have the highest components which according to some is what Chan deserves because he fell. So that must make the nay sayers happy.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by VarBar View Post
    Thanks for clarifying. Well maybe Chan wasn't underscored but other skaters got higher scores than they actually deserved. And I'd say it's not Chan who should worry about his PCS but Kozuka or Plushenko. Now seriously, I do think that the absence of a jump combination hurt Patrick's PCS quite a bit in the judges' eyes.
    I thought overscored marks only apply to Chan

  6. #66
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    This is deja vu all over again. Chan usually has a wake-up call after a substandard outing at the beginning of the season, but, this time, it was earlier than usual because of the Japan Open. So far, he's adjusted, and while a 5th place finish at the Olympics was not what he had hoped for, he's been the gold or silver medalist at Worlds since 2009, which isn't so shabby.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    This is deja vu all over again.
    As is this thread.

    If we brought Patrick Chan threads from the last few seasons to the top of the forum, the posts (and posters) would be identical.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimkom View Post
    As is this thread.

    If we brought Patrick Chan threads from the last few seasons to the top of the forum, the posts (and posters) would be identical.
    Especially one extremely over-the-top fan, who says the same thing over and over and over.

    But, back to the topic of this thread, I don't think one bad performance is indicative at all of what's to come. I'm sure Patrick will come back strong in his next competition.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by ponta1 View Post
    Especially one extremely over-the-top fan, who says the same thing over and over and over.

    Yes I agree with this, and there is also one OTT hater who says the same thing over and over again.
    My travel and adventure blog http://alisonanddon.wordpress.com

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimkom View Post
    As is this thread.

    If we brought Patrick Chan threads from the last few seasons to the top of the forum, the posts (and posters) would be identical.
    I mean, it really is. We have to accept that Patrick Chan with four or five disruptive falls is still better than the lot due to his SS, his "P/E", and the lot. Some of us just want to see a winner who skates cleanly, brings down the house, and has "champion performance" written on it. No, we get that Chan is clearly superior in EVERY other way by an insurmountable level, that he can tank a program yet still win.

    I like Patrick Chan. I wished I had his skills, he really is wonderful. But champions don't fall so much. IMHO.
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  11. #71

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    We're up to five falls now!

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    Its clear that very soon there needs to be Chan rule in terms of multiple falls being more penalized. Some judge gave him a 9.5 for P/E!! 9.5 for a mistake ridden program-its ridiculous and a laughing stock.
    A rule that discourages an athlete from pushing the limits and encourages them to take a conservative approach will never be implemented, so you can forget that.

    P/E is not about element execution. TES is about element execution. It's all about clarity and variety of movement, spatial awareness, involvement in the program and carriage of the body, mostly. As long as falls don't stop you from executing your non-element movements to any major degree, P/E is not impacted.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Forrest View Post
    I mean, it really is. We have to accept that Patrick Chan with four or five disruptive falls is still better than the lot due to his SS, his "P/E", and the lot. Some of us just want to see a winner who skates cleanly, brings down the house, and has "champion performance" written on it. No, we get that Chan is clearly superior in EVERY other way by an insurmountable level, that he can tank a program yet still win.

    I like Patrick Chan. I wished I had his skills, he really is wonderful. But champions don't fall so much. IMHO.
    Okay, but we are clear - Patrick tanked at this year's Japan Open. He didn't win. Right? I mean, he came sixth out of six skaters. We aren't calling that a victory, are we?

  14. #74
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    Oh and PS, just watched the program. That may be one of the most effing boring programs I've ever seen from an elite male skater. No wonder his victories are driving people away from watching skating.

    (Don't think those that defend the judges on how they mark Patrick are necessarily Chan ubers.)

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proustable View Post
    Okay, but we are clear - Patrick tanked at this year's Japan Open. He didn't win. Right? I mean, he came sixth out of six skaters. We aren't calling that a victory, are we?
    I was confused by that post, too.

    So now it seems even though the myth that Patrick could win with 4 or more falls has been squashed, Patrick placing last is still not enough to please some people.

  16. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by fscric View Post
    So now it seems even though the myth that Patrick could win with 4 or more falls has been squashed, Patrick placing last is still not enough to please some people.
    Maybe he shouldn't even have been allowed to enter the competition. You know, because if they let him skate, if he fell he would use his Sekret Kanadian Mind-Altering Powers on the judges and make them overmark him
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  17. #77

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    I'm going to be branded as a Chan-hater but this LP is not one of my favorite programs of his. It's a little cliched, in my opinion. Even skated with the jumps executed as planned, there's nothing in the music and choreography that seems all that inspiring or interesting.

    I'd love to see what he could do with the program Buttle skated to at the JO, which is ironic because didn't Buttle choreograph the one Chan is using?

  18. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by newbatgirl View Post
    I'm going to be branded as a Chan-hater but this LP is not one of my favorite programs of his. It's a little cliched, in my opinion. Even skated with the jumps executed as planned, there's nothing in the music and choreography that seems all that inspiring or interesting.
    We only brand you if you want us to.

    I just watched and tend to agree. The music is not my favourite so it kind of makes it harder to get into it. Although there are parts of it that really connect with the character of the music (step sequence). However his skating skills are really amazing. And it is a new program so it needs a lot more work to make it flow and work with the music.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  19. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by fscric View Post
    So now it seems even though the myth that Patrick could win with 4 or more falls has been squashed, Patrick placing last is still not enough to please some people.
    Some people will never be happy until his score is in the negative.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  20. #80

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    I am really excited about this new program and I think it shows a new side of, new depth to Chan! I would imagine it will do so even more when he is more used to it/more on. To answer your question Newbatgirl - David Wilson choreographed the long. Jeff Buttle choreographed the short.

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