Patrick Chan sees Japan blunders as wake-up call

[jdonavan]

It's not just the jumps. Someone who has never skated in a high performance capacity nor coached in it has no idea how to support a skater through international competition and deal with all of the other stuff that goes on behind the scenes.

Very True...from what I have read and heard at conferences, Krall had a very well planned out system for all competitions down to what she and Patrick would do while waiting after the 6 minute warm up. She had plans for meals, traveling, exercise, sight seeing... I cannot believe he is adjusted to the change of not having that now. I wish him the best as his programs are a step up from last season.

[Eyre]

And as for Trevor and his "stories" I think a group "ignore" is in order.

Why don't you ask the forum to delete those posts?

[Carolla5501]

I figure if the moderators thought Trevor was out of line they would have dealt with him. And honestly, the "gossip" and "I know something you don't know" posts are pretty common here. It would be a full time job to cut down on that type of "trash" post LOL!

But "responding" to him is 'feeding the troll' What people like that HATE is to be ignored so they don't feel important... So my general rule is if someone thinks that "telling secrets" (or more likely "Making up gossip") is a good posting style then "off they go" That way I don't have to read their trash.

[unicorn]

I watched his La Boheme again. I found his arm movements were much softer, and he's more emotionally expressive than before. Maybe it's worth it. And hope his effort will finally pay off.

[Eyre]

But "responding" to him is 'feeding the troll' What people like that HATE is to be ignored so they don't feel important... So my general rule is if someone thinks that "telling secrets" (or more likely "Making up gossip") is a good posting style then "off they go" That way I don't have to read their trash.

How do you know that was just hate or complete made-up claims, or a desperate attempt warning?! You don't know either way. But everybody reads even if they don't respond. Gossip spreads fast. Everyone would come up with his or her own conclusion on whether they were correct, partially correct, or completely non-sense. I'm sure hoestly in your mind, you can't kill something completely just because it's "insider addition" which you don't know. In any case, those "insider additions" were the info which might be correct, partially correct, or totally insanely wrong but we as outsiders should never ever have known. It was a disgusting betrayal by Trevor. The behavior as this should be condemned to prevent further leaking.

[Carolla5501]

How do you know that was just hate or complete made-up claims, or a desperate attempt warning?! You don't know either way. But everybody reads even if they don't respond. Gossip spreads fast. Everyone would come up with his or her own conclusion on whether they were correct, partially correct, or completely non-sense. I'm sure hoestly in your mind, you can't kill something completely just because it's "insider addition" which you don't know. In any case, those "insider additions" were the info which might be correct, partially correct, or totally insanely wrong but we as outsiders should never ever have known. It was a disgusting betrayal by Trevor. The behavior as this should be condemned to prevent further leaking.

"Digusting betrayal" Or "things I made up" You are assuming he is telling the truth? I don't give trash talkers that much credit LOL! Plus if you don't read the "trash" then "outsiders' won't know. So ignore the troll LOL!

I read his first "trash" on "how much he paid" and thought "yeah right", put him on ignore and saw nothing else. Participating and passing it on makes any of us just a guilty as the OP IMHO.

[Former Lurve Goddess]

Since it's Halloween, perhaps "trevor" is the guy referred to in this goth comedy song ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_N-HhIYmHeo

[Eyre]

I read his first "trash" on "how much he paid" and thought "yeah right", put him on ignore and saw nothing else.

Good for you! Admire your will power! ....Just wondering in general how many posts, not just from this poster, you have pretended were not existing?

[aftershocks]

I know that Chan only won the silver medal at Skate Canada. But somewhere inside of me I have this feeling that the world is not ending. Probably not the case though. But I still hear that voice...

The actual world is continuing at least for the time being, but the weather is certainly drastically changing!

Yes, it appears that the World of Patrick Chan, according to ISU judges may be ending, or just taking a different turn. Plus Patrick like anyone else is growing and changing (and has fallen in love) and all things come to an end eventually, and things are always changing.

Two issues re the latest posted article:

1. Patrick is thinking of keeping these same programs for two seasons! I mean they are both wonderful programs for him to continue to explore in order to continue strengthening his artistic expression, but I would suggest his keeping only one of the programs and changing at least one of the programs for the Olympic season. Not that he's going to follow anyone's suggestions (except perhaps those of Kathy Johnson). Keeping an interesting and well-constructed program is not unusual for skaters, but keeping two programs for two seasons in a row (at least these days) does not tend to happen among top skaters. I wonder how many skaters are contemplating keeping one or both of the programs they have this season for the Olympic season?

2. Orser is quoted as saying that Patrick was so much better than everyone else. I don't think that's the case. I think the judges helped give that impression by their over-scoring of PC, particularly at competitions where Patrick made a lot of mistakes. Dai should have won at least a couple of comps over Patrick last season (particularly Worlds 2012). Sure Patrick has superior SS among top competitors, but Orser is also quoted as saying that as a result of Patrick, other guys are now "learning how to skate": I think that statement is a bit OTT too. Sure many admire Chan's deep edges and flow over the ice, and every skater could benefit by doing some figures training, but intimating that Patrick's skills have led to others "learning how to skate" is an insult. The main influence Patrick has had on his competition IMO, is the recognition that quads are absolutely essential if you want to compete for the podium. Patrick mastered quads relatively quickly and he combined them with superior SS, but that doesn't mean that other skaters' SS are so much more subpar.


ETA:
Re Patrick's supposed "blase" attitude re his technical skills. He's finding his way and right now he seems more focused on improving his artistry. He's won so often that I think it may have grown a bit tiresome for him to constantly win. I think Patrick will enjoy for a change feeling like he's competing with the other guys and not so far up in the stratosphere from them where he can't ever lose. Perhaps in the end, it will give him a bit more hunger and motivation. As it is right now, he is obviously more focused on achieving praise instead of criticism re his musicality and artistic skills.

[Emdee]

Orser is quoted as saying that Patrick was so much better than everyone else. I don't think that's the case. I think the judges helped give that impression by their over-scoring of PC, particularly at competitions where Patrick made a lot of mistakes. Dai should have won at least a couple of comps over Patrick last season (particularly Worlds 2012). Sure Patrick has superior SS among top competitors, but Orser is also quoted as saying that as a result of Patrick, other guys are now "learning how to skate": I think that statement is a bit OTT too. Sure many admire Chan's deep edges and flow over the ice, and every skater could benefit by doing some figures training, but intimating that Patrick's skills have led to others "learning how to skate" is an insult. The main influence Patrick has had on his competition IMO, is the recognition that quads are absolutely essential if you want to compete for the podium. Patrick mastered quads relatively quickly and he combined them with superior SS, but that doesn't mean that other skaters' SS are so much more subpar.

Actually last year/this year we read that skaters like Dai/Hanyu/ Fernandez were all talking about wanting to improve their skating skills to compete with Patrick. Hanyu and Fernandez work with Tracy Wilson on their stroking and I recall that Dai went to Lambiel(? not sure about who but I think it was Lambiel) to do the same.
And they have done so to their credit. No one says they had bad skating skills but Patrick's SS are a thing of beauty and he has been called a skater's skater. Other skaters acknowledge this and have improved and more power to them.

If Patrick wants to win he is going to have to play catch up in some ways.

Agree with you about the two programs - one being carried over would be fine but hopefully not both.

[Zemgirl]

Two issues re the latest posted article:

1. Patrick is thinking of keeping these same programs for two seasons! I mean they are both wonderful programs for him to continue to explore in order to continue strengthening his artistic expression, but I would suggest his keeping only one of the programs and changing at least one of the programs for the Olympic season. Not that he's going to follow anyone's suggestions (except perhaps those of Kathy Johnson). Keeping an interesting and well-constructed program is not unusual for skaters, but keeping two programs for two seasons in a row (at least these days) does not tend to happen among top skaters. I wonder how many skaters are contemplating keeping one or both of the programs they have this season for the Olympic season?

...
Patrick mastered quads relatively quickly and he combined them with superior SS, but that doesn't mean that other skaters' SS are so much more subpar.

Brian Joubert has said that he will likely keep his LP next season, though it's still early in the season so who knows. I wouldn't be surprised to see Brezina and Fernandez keep a program for next year, both have a history of doing so.

I can't think of anyone keeping both programs, though, and it strikes me as a bad idea.

BTW, Chan started doing quads at 19 and became relatively consistent around the time he turned 20. That doesn't seem that young to me, though I agree that having a skater of his level incorporate quads into both programs has been conducive to persuading others to try them.

[aftershocks]

Actually last year/this year we read that skaters like Dai/Hanyu/ Fernandez were all talking about wanting to improve their skating skills to compete with Patrick. Hanyu and Fernandez work with Tracy Wilson on their stroking and I recall that Dai went to Lambiel(? not sure about who but I think it was Lambiel) to do the same.
And they have done so to their credit. No one says they had bad skating skills but Patrick's SS are a thing of beauty and he has been called a skater's skater. Other skaters acknowledge this and have improved and more power to them.

If Patrick wants to win he is going to have to play catch up in some ways.

Agree with you about the two programs - one being carried over would be fine but hopefully not both.

Sure Emdee I do give Patrick credit where credit is due re his SS, but I think Orser's quotes were a bit of "exaggerations." No matter, it is good to see Patrick so focused on improving his artistic skills, which definitely benefits him and the sport. I think what Dai and Abbott showed last season with their impressive artistry and well-choreographed programs has also been inspirational to the entire men's field, including Patrick.

Re keeping programs for the Olympic season, I actually feel that Denis Ten's lovely and creative programs this season from The Artist soundtrack (put together with some help from Stephane Lambiel -- re that lovely interview posted in the D10 thread someone started) would be one instance where I'd say, "Yes, they are keepers for the Olympic season!" It would be wonderful to see Denis skate both these programs cleanly. The concept of having these programs tell an extended story is so intriguing. Denis is a very smooth and wonderful skater to watch, but he seems to suffer a lot from nerves in competition re his inability to cleanly land all his jumps. I wish all the guys who have this problem can overcome.

[Emdee]

Dai is definitely one of Patrick's inspirations as is Kurt.

Agree that Denis ten's programs are wonderful. One problem with Lori is she choreographs for what a skater is capable of doing and not what a skater can actually do. It ends up wonderful if you are able to complete the program as intended.

[arakwafan2006]

Dai is definitely one of Patrick's inspirations as is Kurt.

Agree that Denis ten's programs are wonderful. One problem with Lori is she choreographs for what a skater is capable of doing and not what a skater can actually do. It ends up wonderful if you are able to complete the program as intended.

I dont agree with the choice of your word "problem". How else will a skater grow if they are not challenged?

[carriecmu0503]

The actual world is continuing at least for the time being, but the weather is certainly drastically changing!

Yes, it appears that the World of Patrick Chan, according to ISU judges may be ending, or just taking a different turn. Plus Patrick like anyone else is growing and changing (and has fallen in love) and all things come to an end eventually, and things are always changing.

Two issues re the latest posted article:

1. Patrick is thinking of keeping these same programs for two seasons! I mean they are both wonderful programs for him to continue to explore in order to continue strengthening his artistic expression, but I would suggest his keeping only one of the programs and changing at least one of the programs for the Olympic season. Not that he's going to follow anyone's suggestions (except perhaps those of Kathy Johnson). Keeping an interesting and well-constructed program is not unusual for skaters, but keeping two programs for two seasons in a row (at least these days) does not tend to happen among top skaters. I wonder how many skaters are contemplating keeping one or both of the programs they have this season for the Olympic season?

2. Orser is quoted as saying that Patrick was so much better than everyone else. I don't think that's the case. I think the judges helped give that impression by their over-scoring of PC, particularly at competitions where Patrick made a lot of mistakes. Dai should have won at least a couple of comps over Patrick last season (particularly Worlds 2012). Sure Patrick has superior SS among top competitors, but Orser is also quoted as saying that as a result of Patrick, other guys are now "learning how to skate": I think that statement is a bit OTT too. Sure many admire Chan's deep edges and flow over the ice, and every skater could benefit by doing some figures training, but intimating that Patrick's skills have led to others "learning how to skate" is an insult. The main influence Patrick has had on his competition IMO, is the recognition that quads are absolutely essential if you want to compete for the podium. Patrick mastered quads relatively quickly and he combined them with superior SS, but that doesn't mean that other skaters' SS are so much more subpar.


ETA:
Re Patrick's supposed "blase" attitude re his technical skills. He's finding his way and right now he seems more focused on improving his artistry. He's won so often that I think it may have grown a bit tiresome for him to constantly win. I think Patrick will enjoy for a change feeling like he's competing with the other guys and not so far up in the stratosphere from them where he can't ever lose. Perhaps in the end, it will give him a bit more hunger and motivation. As it is right now, he is obviously more focused on achieving praise instead of criticism re his musicality and artistic skills.

Well after all, PCS DOES mean Patrick Chan Score!

[trevor]

Halloween or not. The second week after Patrick won the Russian Cup.
My fuss created, by telling the true story of Patrick and his new coach, is well worth it.
For obviously, my story and its effects had come to the attention of one of the team, and his return to top form is a good reply to the fuss I created.

[Emdee]

Trevor - its strange that you are taking personal credit for something PC did after you slammed him earlier.

In fact the way I see it his skate at COR refuted your'fuss' !!!

[trevor]

HOW DID i SLAM HIM?
Over here, in China, and as an overseas Canadian,I am trying to popularize the sport of figure skating, which he and his dad agreed once, is also one of their mission.
To see my and your hero in danger of falling into a hole, I can only shout 'watch out' by telling the truth and danger ahead.
To disbelieve in a true story, is alright, you have the privilege.

But the emails I sent to his dad you haven't seen. I had the same danger message repeated, although much more respectful and figuratively put. Although I said I have to say my frank piece, for Patrick intellegience, deserves and understands perfectly what I am aiming at - he is too valuable a talent of the skating world, to go astray or get lost in emotional/mental distractions to the most exact sports in this world. The senior guest commentator, live at the Canadian championship at Windosr, on Chinese national sports network, Yang, said Patrick has the top technique of all male skaters in the world today, just before he fell thrice after his first successful toe-quad in his long program. But he went on to say that Canada has the top quality skating coaches, in enough numbers, to make it the skating power of the world, and that China's change, from a state elite training (closed) college/camp method for national team, to a more westernized commercial mall oriented broad public skating arrangement, the traditional pyramid sectional system, should borrow from the Canadian system, of first sports for the general public, with talented members spotted, and assisted to become elite atheletes for the nation, later. All this is dependant on the economic affluence level of society, for coaches cost a bundle.

[rayhaneh]

Halloween or not. The second week after Patrick won the Russian Cup.
My fuss created, by telling the true story of Patrick and his new coach, is well worth it.
For obviously, my story and its effects had come to the attention of one of the team, and his return to top form is a good reply to the fuss I created.

Well, obviously. How could a couple of posts made on the 13th (or was it 12th?) page of a thread of an internet forum NOT bring around changes around Patrick Chan and change the course of his season!

I. Don't. Even. Know. Where. To. Start

[Iceman]

Dick Button once commented that judges frown on a program being used for more than one season. I like to rewatch some of my favorite programs on you tube, but I don't care about seeing them in competition for more than one year. Personally, I think it should be disallowed or a mandatory deduction if done.