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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by triple_toe View Post
    What I'm genuinely curious about is who's going to stand at the boards with Patrick at internationals? Kathy Johnson doesn't have the proper credentials, that's why Joanne McLeod was with Patrick at the World Team Trophy this past spring.
    Wasn't it Kathy Johnson sitting with Chan in the K&C at WTT?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkP9q...ailpage#t=317s

    Or she's allowed to just sit in the Kiss and Cry but never stand at the boards?

  2. #122

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subway View Post
    The logic is going over my head. Not having a tech coach is going to have a greater impact on a figure skater's performance than having a girlfriend.

    The histrionics seem misplaced for an athlete who is apparently missing a key element on his coaching team. Bring in a tech element expert and he can keep his girlfriend.
    I too am concerned about his lack of a tech coach - had a really bad feeling when Krall initially left the team. Krall was critical to Patrick's jump improvement and gaining consistency on the quad. In my view his progress on jumps these past few seasons was remarkable, not only landing quads a good proportion of the time but also managing to fix his 3A problems.

    To me Krall was an example of 'when something is working, don't fix it'. I don't see how Patrick can maintain his jump technique without Krall or another equally strong tech coach. Its not something he can just do on his own and maintain. When Kwan went coachless, she wasn't doing quads and 3As - and it still shook her up.

    It's true that Patrick is usually weak at the beginning of the season and it's true that working with new choreographers and skating two new programs for the first time will be a challenge. Nonetheless, I still fear that this season may be a disappointment for a Patrick. Of course, I do hope I'm wrong.

    OTOH, if he's going to have a less-than-stellar season, better this season than in 2013/14. In fact, it might actually boost his Olympic prospects. Not going in to the Olympics as World Champion would take all the pressure off. Especially since Patrick's timeline may be a year or so off in terms of peaking at the OG.
    Last edited by Japanfan; 10-10-2012 at 04:34 AM.

  3. #123

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    My concern with the coaching situation, is who's there in the heat of competition should Patrick have a similar meltdown in the SP; to help him make the necessary technical adjustments to right the ship for the LP? He needs a technical coach, and I'm not just saying this because of his JO performance.

  4. #124

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    Years ago I worked for a company where another person with the same name started working there so they decided to call me Trevor. However I am not the Trevor who is posting here.

    I think trevor needs to be very careful about what they are posting. That stuff is way too personal and not appropriate. A person who really knows the family would not be posting that stuff.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  5. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    Years ago I worked for a company where another person with the same name started working there so they decided to call me Trevor. However I am not the Trevor who is posting here.


    I think trevor needs to be very careful about what they are posting. That stuff is way too personal and not appropriate. A person who really knows the family would not be posting that stuff.
    I agree. I don't think it's right to post someone's personal life on a public forum without consent. Trevor, if you are truly concerned, this is not the way to express your concerns.

  6. #126

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    I think "Trevor" is spinning us all a tale that they would like us to believe. This old lady ain't buying the Kool-Aid.

    As for his "bad" start -- I'm going to have to agree with those who are listing things like:
    - he usually has a slow/bad start to the season
    - he's learning not one but TWO new programs
    - he's working with different people in more than one area of his "job"

    Regarding Krall and his technique on the quad and 3A, I have a question. Once you "learn" how to do something correctly, do you still need someone to tell you how to do it? I ask cause it seems to be that Kristy did a great job in getting Patrick to perform those jumps the way they should be done. Presuming that he now knows "how" to do them correctly, would he still really need her to continue "telling" him how to do the jumps? Just a curious thought that travelled from one side of my brain to the other.

    Patrick had a rough outing. I am not panicking. I believe he will get better as the season goes on. Will he win another WC? That remains to be seen but I believe he is still the skater to beat for the top of the podium (no offense to Dai fans).
    Crazy about sports!

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by kittyjake5 View Post
    Over the years I have heard a lot of reasons why a skater does not do well in a competition, injury, illness, personal or family problems, financial, coaching change, etc. "Girlfriend" is a first for me.

    BOT: It was bad competition for Patrick but he is an excellent skater with first class skills
    and I really do not expect to see a repeat of what happened in JO.


    Girlfriend is a first for you???? In Peggy Fleming's autobiography, she shares that her mother caught her staring at her boyfriend's pic during the Olympics and promptly ripped it into shreds. Love relationships can cause problems and distractions in anyone's life (especially if things aren't going well). Elite athletes are best when they have tunnel vision and no outside distractions.
    Most unfortunately have to choose the life of a monk in many areas of their lives.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by professordeb View Post
    Regarding Krall and his technique on the quad and 3A, I have a question. Once you "learn" how to do something correctly, do you still need someone to tell you how to do it?
    Since they're working with aches and pains through training, and there is huge pressure not to skip it or to admit to injury publicly, athletes and dancers especially need to be sure that they aren't compromising their technique through all of the compensations they do to get through the day. They need someone to watch them and point out when they're heading in the wrong direction. Dancers have mirrors, and can pick some of this out themselves, if they are astute. Skaters could be taped, but it's not the same instant feedback as the mirror, and the micro-adjustments might not be discernible to them.

    Opera singers and musicians check in with their teachers for technical check-ups, but while they, too, can hurt themselves by repeating poor technique and have chronic pain, there usually isn't anything as jarring in singing or playing an instrument as there is in landing a jump.
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

  9. #129
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    Are we really going to take Trevor's story at face value? I'm not saying Trevor made this up but I'm also a bit skeptical on some of the details like Karen Chan being scolded into submission by Kathy Johnson...

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    Its not like the judges have shown him in most cases that landing his jumps are important...
    There is more to a program than jumps.

  11. #131

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    I would rather watch Patrick Chan fly across the ice on his ass then watch most of the men in the world skate on their blades.

    He's truly a very gifted skater who had one bad free skate at some two-bit competition. It was just his warm up for the Grand Prix. He knows what to do and what not to do.

    If he gets 5th or 6th in his Grand Prix competitions and fails to make the finals; I may start to think something is up, but it's really way to early to be worrying.

  12. #132

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    To those asking if once you "learn" a jump, do you need someone to tell you how to do it: YES! Otherwise no one would need a coach at all once they learn how to do a jump. A coach doesn't tell you how to do a jump, he/she constantly refines your technique and makes sure you're doing it correctly.

    A triple has an incredibly small margin for error, a quad even less so. You need someone watching over you to see the tiny technicalities you can't feel for yourself. You're never going to be 100% on a triple or a quad, even if you've been doing them for years. That's why a clean program is such a big deal and why you need a coach looking over you.

  13. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by professordeb View Post
    Once you "learn" how to do something correctly, do you still need someone to tell you how to do it? I ask cause it seems to be that Kristy did a great job in getting Patrick to perform those jumps the way they should be done. Presuming that he now knows "how" to do them correctly, would he still really need her to continue "telling" him how to do the jumps? Just a curious thought that travelled from one side of my brain to the other.
    All professional athletes have coaches ... Baseball, basketball, football, hockey, soccer, rugby, tennis, etc, etc. Professional skaters are no different.

    Specifically, skaters need coaches because if there is not something to improve then there is something new to learn. Also, skaters, even the great Patrick Chan, have some bad habits that need to be kept under control. For example, a skater might rush checking his landings, might not step into his axels enough, etc. that results in bad execution, including falls. But only a trained professional can identify the problem, know the right words to describe the problem, and be able to prescribe a solution.

    Furthermore, no athlete is above being reminded of his basics, even as a master, because they are one's best guide when one is nervous or under pressure.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 10-10-2012 at 02:32 AM.

  14. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman View Post
    Girlfriend is a first for you???? In Peggy Fleming's autobiography, she shares that her mother caught her staring at her boyfriend's pic during the Olympics and promptly ripped it into shreds. Love relationships can cause problems and distractions in anyone's life (especially if things aren't going well). Elite athletes are best when they have tunnel vision and no outside distractions.
    Most unfortunately have to choose the life of a monk in many areas of their lives.
    Yes it is a first for me. I really am not interested in skaters' love lives. If a skater announces their marriage or engagement (i.e. Michelle) I will congratulate them on line but other than that I really don't have any interest in what goes on in a skater's personal love life.

  15. #135

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    Quote Originally Posted by professordeb View Post

    Regarding Krall and his technique on the quad and 3A, I have a question. Once you "learn" how to do something correctly, do you still need someone to tell you how to do it? I ask cause it seems to be that Kristy did a great job in getting Patrick to perform those jumps the way they should be done. Presuming that he now knows "how" to do them correctly, would he still really need her to continue "telling" him how to do the jumps? Just a curious thought that travelled from one side of my brain to the other.

    QUOTE]
    Another YES to the question. One day you have a headache, another- overtired muscles, another- bad mood... The body constantly wants to compensate and find an easier way, not the right way; it feels different on the inside than it is on the outside. The outside eye is incredibly important. The more experienced you are, the more you can control yourself; but with "tight rope" elements , when the margin of error is miniscule, it takes an outside eye to correct mistakes.
    But for myself, as somebody who have not been Patrick's fan, because his technique for me was always ahead of his interpretation, his quest for more artistry is wonderful. I admire him trying new choreographers, trying to be the most complete skater he can be. I think he'll probably need a technical coach, but he is going a long way to make me a fan ( not significant for him, maybe, but significant for me)
    improving my ballad- like lines

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    Great skating skill? Any skater at that level has great skating skills.


    None other male skaters have skating skills anywhere near as good.

    His edges are amazing but most importantly he generates speed extremely easily, there are hardly any cross-overs in his programs, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    Great choreo? He doesn't even remotely use the music.
    Choreo is his weakest PCS point IMO but he does skate to the music, his timing is usually spot on.

    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    Great transitions? His programs look cluttered and ridiculous, I'm fairly sure that's not the point of transitions.
    Oh FFS. Do you know any other skaters who are capable of executing steps pretty much for most of the length of the rink before a quad toe? Pretty much every single element in his programs is preceded by transitions. Do you know any other skater you can say that about?

    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    Great speed? That he can't control.
    Yeah, he can't. It happens by magic.

    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    Did I miss a change in the GOE rules? Deductions are cumulative, but once you hit -3 GOE that's the most that can be deducted isn't it?
    First you establish the GOE and then you deduct.

    So if there are enough positive features for a +3, then the maximum that could be theoretically deducted is -6.

    Quote Originally Posted by professordeb View Post
    Regarding Krall and his technique on the quad and 3A, I have a question. Once you "learn" how to do something correctly, do you still need someone to tell you how to do it?
    Yes.

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by walei View Post
    Are we really going to take Trevor's story at face value? I'm not saying Trevor made this up but I'm also a bit skeptical on some of the details like Karen Chan being scolded into submission by Kathy Johnson...
    Scolding may be seen as seriously criticizing, as Karen objected to paring of her coaches' daughter with her son. She also worries that, according to Chinese tradition, that the girl's reputation, may be jeopardized with long intimate relationship with her own son, too. But western standards are what we all are abiding now,as we reminded her. In fear of meddling in family affairs (but PC is such a public figure, loved and fanned by thousands of figure skating lovers all over, and we are all wishing him well, to perform better, longer atheletic life, especially from his own native tribe), I repectfully suggest';
    1. That the two lovebirds get married.
    2.Settle down to stable married life
    3.Restart vigorous technical training, new additonal coaches etc. for Patrick
    4. Wish that Patrick can regain his excellence, and compete in form for the Sochi Olympics.

  18. #138
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    He's barely 21 and you want him to get married!
    My travel and adventure blog http://alisonanddon.wordpress.com

  19. #139

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    Trevor - you are saying too much. I would be careful.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  20. #140

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    Any chance that Trevor could be a jealous, obsessed, crazed uber-fan?

    Ahm jes' sayin'...
    "I hit him with my shoes... if he had given me the medal like I told him to, I wouldn't have had to hit him!" -- 8-year-old Rhoda Penmark in "The Bad Seed"

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