View Poll Results: Would Yamaguchi and K/P have won 2nd Oly Gold if reinstated

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  • both would have

    43 41.35%
  • Yamaguchi would have, K/P would not have

    33 31.73%
  • K/P would have, Yamaguchi would not have

    15 14.42%
  • both would not have

    12 11.54%
  • Yamaguchi wouldnt have wno but would have flipped ordinals of Biaul vs Kerrigan

    1 0.96%
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  1. #1
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    Would Yamaguchi and Klimova & Ponomarenko have won 2nd Oly Gold if reinstated

    The two people I was most surprised did not reinstate in 94 were Kristi Yamaguchi and Klimova & Ponomarenko. Would either have won a 2nd Olympic Gold if they had. I would say both of them would have been successful.

  2. #2
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    Just my thought : Kristi would have, not K&P.
    In ice dancing, it's so difficult to say, since it was not really objective at that time. And I'd say judges wanted someone new.

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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    Just my thought : Kristi would have, not K&P.
    In ice dancing, it's so difficult to say, since it was not really objective at that time. And I'd say judges wanted someone new.
    Who knows but G&P's winning FD in 94 was so far inferior to K&P's from 92 I cant see K&P not winning unless they declined massively. U&Z with their horrible FD and slow and untrained performance, mostly due to their marital issues in 94 still nearly beat G&P.

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Who knows but G&P's winning FD in 94 was so far inferior to K&P's from 92 I cant see K&P not winning unless they declined massively. U&Z with their horrible FD and slow and untrained performance, mostly due to their marital issues in 94 still nearly beat G&P.
    If K&P did reinstate and received 1st place ordinals, do you think that would have effected the ordinals and placement of the other ice dancers? Or would they still have ended up G&P, U&Z, T&D, in that order?

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    Yamaguchi would have remained a favorite of the judges and with her good jumps would have been a winner. I think she would have been stronger than she was than she was in 1992.

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Who knows but G&P's winning FD in 94 was so far inferior to K&P's from 92 I cant see K&P not winning unless they declined massively. U&Z with their horrible FD and slow and untrained performance, mostly due to their marital issues in 94 still nearly beat G&P.
    That's exactly what I was saying. We don't know. Usova&Zhulin almost won it with their FD...with T&D claiming they were robbed !
    But anyway, I don't think the judges would have give T&D no medal.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    That's exactly what I was saying. We don't know. Usova&Zhulin almost won it with their FD...with T&D claiming they were robbed !
    But anyway, I don't think the judges would have give T&D no medal.
    IMO U&Z and T&D's placements would have been flipped, if K&P had the gold, and G&P the silver. I don't think the judges would have allowed a Russian sweep.

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    I think Christi would have won but not sure about K/P.

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    Now, one thing I wonder : would T&D be back if K&P were back also ?
    If if if, lol

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    I love it if K/P won two OGM (much more worthy than G/P) but I doubt they would have won in 1994 since the judges seriously underrated them from 1986 to 1992. Funny how, a team that won 3 worlds and Olympic bronze, silver, and golds underrated and underscored but they were. I'm happy to see hindsight has been kind to their legacy.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

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    I think both would have. Ice dancing is a bit trickier since the rules were a bit different than in 1992.

    Yamaguchi, hands down, would have repeated. Considering the technical content of the top 3 ladies, minus Chen Lu, who did the most aggressive program in terms of jumps, Yamaguchi would have easily won on both marks. Lu had the jumps, but not the same presentation at that time.

    Kristi also looked better in 1994 and had some fabulous programs to boot:
    World Pros 1994
    1994 World Team Challenge
    1994/95 M Butterfly Program (2 lutzes)

  12. #12
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    Can't tell for Yamaguchi.
    K/P, given that they would have been still in the same good condition as they were in '92, would have won hands down. In '92, they won against much stronger programs than G/P had won against in '94.

    But keep in mind, K/P hold olympic medals of all three colours, one can say that they had already achieved everything possible. Why taking the risk again?

  13. #13

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    Yamaguchi talked about reinstating to skate pairs but obviously did not. I don't think K/P would have won for the same reason T/D didn't. Ice dance at that time was a very much take a number and wait your turn system in those days. Once they retired they gave up their number.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scootie12 View Post
    I think both would have. Ice dancing is a bit trickier since the rules were a bit different than in 1992.

    Yamaguchi, hands down, would have repeated. Considering the technical content of the top 3 ladies, minus Chen Lu, who did the most aggressive program in terms of jumps, Yamaguchi would have easily won on both marks. Lu had the jumps, but not the same presentation at that time.

    Kristi also looked better in 1994 and had some fabulous programs to boot:
    World Pros 1994
    1994 World Team Challenge
    1994/95 M Butterfly Program (2 lutzes)
    When I watched those programs at that time, my feeling was just : why did she retire ? Why ? She is amazing and could have won easily the 1994 Olympic title. And the SP in 1998 ! (And I'm a Michelle Kwan fan).

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    As long as she brought her knee pads to Nationals

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ares View Post
    As long as she brought her knee pads to Nationals
    That's kind of what I thought, also. Didn't Kristi say something about feeling "safer" for not reinstating?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ares View Post
    As long as she brought her knee pads to Nationals
    I hate to think Kristi would've been the victim of Giloogy's thugs. Kristi is smaller than Nancy. That knee whack might have seriously damage Kristi's knee.

    As to whether Kristi would've won in 94, I think Baiu would've remained the judges' darlings heading into LiliHammer.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    That's exactly what I was saying. We don't know. Usova&Zhulin almost won it with their FD...with T&D claiming they were robbed !
    But anyway, I don't think the judges would have give T&D no medal.
    I think the judges in 94 would have been more than fine giving T&D no medal. They were placing them a distant 3rd behind two not very good FDs.

    Quote Originally Posted by lulu View Post
    If K&P did reinstate and received 1st place ordinals, do you think that would have effected the ordinals and placement of the other ice dancers? Or would they still have ended up G&P, U&Z, T&D, in that order?
    In the FD it was possible for an ordinal flip between G&P and U&Z for sure. Even an ordinal flip between G&P and T&D was possible. U&Z beat T&D clearly by the judges (much more clearly than G&P did T&D, ironically with G&P still beating U&Z) so that is the only ones that definitely wouldnt have flipped in the FD. The other dances could have been affected too as far as the placings. G&P probably would have been only 4th in the OD which would have made it incredibly hard for them to still end up the winners overall.

    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    Now, one thing I wonder : would T&D be back if K&P were back also ?
    If if if, lol
    That too. I actually dont think T&D would have returned had K&P done. Coming back to amateur competition after 10 years away is very hard, no matter who you are. I think they only returned since they saw an easy path to the gold. Usova & Zhulin were good but had been dominated by Klimova & Ponomarenko and the Duchensays for years, only winning a World title once everyone was good and there were no threats, and it was already apparent their skating was declining since 92 with the problems in their personal life. Gritschuk & Platov had never come close to winning a major title at that point, even though they came 2nd at the weak 93 Worlds event. Had someone like K&P been there or coming back, I dont think T&D would have even bothered, which in hindsight would have been a smart move anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by aliceanne View Post
    Yamaguchi talked about reinstating to skate pairs but obviously did not. I don't think K/P would have won for the same reason T/D didn't. Ice dance at that time was a very much take a number and wait your turn system in those days. Once they retired they gave up their number.
    Even though their FD this year sucked shouldnt U/Z won if that were the case? After all wasnt it their turn, not G/P's, they were the reigning World Champions and had waited their turn behind K/P for years. Yet the Russian fed. and their allies clearly backed G/P over U/Z which was why G/P won over U/Z in the end.

    Quote Originally Posted by orbitz View Post
    As to whether Kristi would've won in 94, I think Baiu would've remained the judges' darlings heading into LiliHammer.
    Entirely possible this is true, but Nancy Kerrigan very nearly won despite that.
    Last edited by judgejudy27; 10-05-2012 at 10:52 PM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    When I watched those programs at that time, my feeling was just : why did she retire ? Why ? She is amazing and could have won easily the 1994 Olympic title. And the SP in 1998 ! (And I'm a Michelle Kwan fan).
    Kristi could often win the short program over MK IMO, but I dont think she would have in 98. That was Kwan's all time signature program and at its height. That is the only year I couldnt see her losing a SP to anyone if she skated cleanly, atleast not someone else only doing a triple toe. She definitely could have pushed Tara down to 3rd in the SP and if she did that Tara might never have won.

  20. #20
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    I picked K&P would have, and Kristi wouldn't, but I really mean that it's too hard to tell in a singles event because of jumping issues.

    In 1994 the focus of ice dance was on ballroom style routine... who could do that better than the in prime shape K&P? No one would come close. U&Z were clearly not favored anymore, and G&P in 94 could not compete against K&P at that level. I don't think there would have been a Russian sweep (if it was ever deserved it was in dance in 88 and pairs in 94 and it didn't happen), and I guess U&Z would have been the casualty.

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