Chinese skating updates and reports

[Sylvia]

Ziggy, whispering posted earlier that "only 3 men have reached the MTS" (minimum technical scores) required for 2013 Junior Worlds.

This maybe a dumb question but I ask anyway:How does Yan not going to JWC would benifit Zhang?

He Zhang will finish one spot higher and gain extra ISU World Standings ranking points at Junior Worlds?

Just sent PM to forum moderator. Guess there are some articles in this thread after all

Thanks!

ETA China's 2013 Junior Worlds men's entries and 1 alternate as of Feb. 6 (to confirm whispering's post #143 below):

9 Boyang JIN CHN 8
10 Han YAN CHN 8
11 He ZHANG CHN 8
Wenbo ZANG (*) CHN 8 S

[dinakt]

Besides...if they are not gonna take him to worlds, why didn't they enter him at Junior Worlds? Doesn't have much sense to me

That is what is so puzzling.

[whispering]

They have three! And they didn't even bother to name any alternates.

So even though there are 34320943849023840928 skaters competing at the national level, nobody got sent.

I just want to personally murder each every single Chinese Figure Skating Federation official.

No，they did initially named Wenbo Zang as alternate who has not competed at any international competition for over two years

[pinky166]

It's not as if Yan Han has been stellar all season. He was great at one competition. If he had been skating like Kovtun has been for Russia perhaps China might have skipped an older guy for him, despite the higher finish at nationals for Song.

Whether one agrees with the national championship results or not, skipping the national champion for someone else does not seem like a good precedent. While I'm sure politics may be involved, I'm not sure if there's more politics there than Russian federation or the French federation or USFSA...

eta: On another note, I also see Yan Han as a competitor who needs to peak for events, and I suspect he's already peaked at 4cc. I don't see him skating great at back-to-back competitions, though I could say that about Song too (who skated fairly well at 4cc)

Han Yan I agree isn't a beacon of consistency, but he's not a headcase either. And 4CC showed the judges regard him more highly than Song, Yan had a healthy PCS margin over Song in both segments of the competition and came out ahead overall by a fair amount despite having a rougher FS. Like the guy in Russia had said of Kovtun, if the ISU judges see a young up-and-comer go out and land the big tricks, they will reward them for doing so with big scores even if this skater may not be so strong artistically yet. Han Yan is considered by just about everyone as a young gun, up-and-comer, future star, the like while Nan Song is known as a 2nd or 3rd tier skater with very good jumping ability. That's a difference and that's also why sending Yan makes more sense. To make the top 10, Song will likely need to skate perfectly with 3 quads, and even then, he might not make the cut, whereas Yan can likely make the top 10 with a few mistakes. 4CC showed us that - Yan had a great SP but his FS was not really anything that special technically or performance wise (only one 3a, fell on 4t attempt), and yet he still beats Song who also had a great SP for his standards and a FS that was pretty darn strong technically. It's honestly likely to increase Song's chances of going to the Olympics next year if Yan goes, because if there's only one spot, it will likely go to Yan.

[jjane45]

It's quite strange that the Chinese boards are so quiet on which man goes to Worlds. There were some hopeful speculations after YAN disappeared from JW entries, then pretty much dead silence.

[SamuraiK]

It sucks the way Han Yan has been treated this year. He should have been on the Senior GP and if not sent to Worlds (I do think Song should go as national champ even when his chances of getting 2 spots are smaller) he should0ve definetly got Jr Worlds instead.

Oh well, at least both guys should be at WTT right?

[Roskate]

Reading Yan’s weibo and the Chinese boards, Yan really does not want to go to JW. His Chinese fans especially do not want him to go to JW again because they know there’s a high possibility that he may lose to Joshua Farris there. His fans were celebrating that Yan is not going to JW because they don’t want him to lose to Joshua Farris.

4CC showed us that - Yan had a great SP but his FS was not really anything that special technically or performance wise (only one 3a, fell on 4t attempt), and yet he still beats Song who also had a great SP for his standards and a FS that was pretty darn strong technically.

No, Song didn’t do that well at 4CC. His SP was not great for his standard, and the LP was not good either. Song only had one 4T in his LP, and he made errors in both programs, while Yan was clean in his SP and was almost clean in LP except one fall. Song made more errors in his LP than Yan did, and so Song’s LP TES was lower than Yan at 4CC. But Song has proved he scored 80+ TES in LPs in the past, and Yan has not done so. If the Chinese Federation is thinking about scoring potential, then they would think Song has higher scoring potential than Yan.

Oh well, at least both guys should be at WTT right?

Yes, both guys will be at WTT.

[Ziggy]

Ziggy, whispering posted earlier that "only 3 men have reached the MTS" (minimum technical scores) required for 2013 Junior Worlds.

That's because Chinese Fed doesn't send skaters to international events so they can't earn those.

[misskarne]

Reading Yan’s weibo and the Chinese boards, Yan really does not want to go to JW. His Chinese fans especially do not want him to go to JW again because they know there’s a high possibility that he may lose to Joshua Farris there. His fans were celebrating that Yan is not going to JW because they don’t want him to lose to Joshua Farris.

Not at all an unnatural surmise, when you consider than Han only beat Joshua by half a point last year, with Han landing a 4T and Joshua not even attempting one. But I'm a little surprised that it's so openly stated.

Personally I'm quite disappointed. I enjoy it especially when there's a thrilling tussle and I thought this year's JW, with a possibility of Han, Kovtun, Joshua and Jason bringing a 3A this time, was going to be an epic showdown.

[jjane45]

My overall impression from reading the boards? YAN Han has no business on the junior circuit after winning JW last year and 4CC bronze. Federation is stupid. Leave the junior worlds to "double J".

Re: scoring potential, I hear numerous people guess YAN Han can potentially make top 10 with minor mistakes, while SONG Nan needs to be absolutely clean.

[jlai]

The Chinese heritage in me also thinks Yan has graduated to senior ranks and so the question is really whether he should go to worlds.

That said I also get the thinking about maxing your skaters' competing opportunities by sending age eligible skaters to jr comps.

Anyway, I always ge tthe sense that team China operates on a shoestring, so skaters have to prove themselves to get comps and perks.
Whether they really have no money or they are just stingy, I cant say.

[Ziggy]

Well if they want to send Song Nan to Worlds, then there is a sense from sending Yan Han to Junior Worlds. To give him some ranking points.

[Sylvia]

Han YAN received 680 ISU World Standings ranking points for his bronze at 4CC so he couldn't have picked up any more points at Junior Worlds (500 points for 1st place) because only 1 ISU Championship counts per season.

If Nan SONG goes to Worlds and places 9th or higher, he can increase his ranking points from the 496 he gained at 4CC.

[Jun Y]

If Nan SONG goes to Worlds and places 9th or higher, he can increase his ranking points from the 496 he gained at 4CC.

I think that's a lousy reason to send Song to Worlds instead of Yan. What's more important here? Getting 2 spots for Olympics or giving Song another chance to rack up more ranking points? I think Yan has a better chance than Song to earn the 2 spots at Worlds. The better skating skills alone will be favored by the judges.

[Sylvia]

But I have no idea if that's the, or a, reason Song is going to Worlds instead of Yan. If I had the power , I'd send Yan to Worlds.

[jjane45]

I think that's a lousy reason to send Song to Worlds instead of Yan.

Want to hear a lousier explanation? To justify the $$$ spent on SONG Nan's choreography.

I like both YAN and SONG and wish they compete for the spot on an equal footing. But the federation seriously made many mistakes in the year of Olympic qualification.

Ziggy, allegedly there are six federation officials, which one would you like to take?

[Jun Y]

But I have no idea if that's the, or a, reason Song is going to Worlds instead of Yan. If I had the power , I'd send Yan to Worlds.

Indeed. It's just that nobody is able to come up with a remotely logical explanation for the Chinese Federation's decision. I guess "justifying the $$$ spent on Song" is as good (or nonsensical) as any.

[Ziggy]

Han YAN received 680 ISU World Standings ranking points for his bronze at 4CC so he couldn't have picked up any more points at Junior Worlds (500 points for 1st place) because only 1 ISU Championship counts per season.

If Nan SONG goes to Worlds and places 9th or higher, he can increase his ranking points from the 496 he gained at 4CC.

Ahhh ok. Thanks for pointing that out. Now I am starting to understand better why Yan isn't at Junior Worlds. Although I guess even not getting ranking points, he'd help the fed secure 3 spots for next year.

Ziggy, allegedly there are six federation officials, which one would you like to take?

All of them.

[Finnice]

Ziggy, I am in China right now. Shall I make same enquiries for you? I hope Nan Song has recovered from the accident he had. Not a wonder if it has leaved some trauma to him.

[jlai]

Ahhh ok. Thanks for pointing that out. Now I am starting to understand better why Yan isn't at Junior Worlds. Although I guess even not getting ranking points, he'd help the fed secure 3 spots for next year.

All of them.

Zhang and Jin managed to earn 3 spots (barely but they did it).

Maybe Team China has a crystal ball (or lots of ). (Or sheer dumb luck)